Thread: Valley shingles

Something just does not look right. Am I right or wrong?
Rich

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Woven Closed Valley

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They've got the weave line off. The line appears to extend too far up from the valley.

I see this occasionally and call it as prone to leakage (I guess that's true of any roof valley) - I am really opposed to way water will run right up under the shingles which is the first line of defense.

I've never heard back that anyone said it was okay.... Neither of the two responses said right or wrong.... So ????

What's the verdict?

That is not a weave. They messed it up all together. The weave belongs in the valley only, not running up the other side. It will leak and a poor excuse for a try.

Definitely done wrong. Even with double underlayment it's going to have water get under the shingles.
Call it out for a licensed roofers evaluation and repair.

This a very poor attempt at a woven shingle valley. Did the homeowner use un-trained monkeys on this? There are three "approved" ways to lay up a valley, open, closed, and woven. Woven is the least desirable as it prone to quicker wear, but this is very sad.

The shingles should not have the ends exposed to the slope as they do. If you look closely at the the links from Raymond you'll see that the shingles are "woven" like a deck of shuffled cards that allow the water to shed over then, not catch the ends and run under them!

Get a "real" roofer in the to access what can be done before you get a nice hard rain!

And Matt, if done correctly valleys are no more prone to leakage than any other part of the roof. Our company does on open valley using 24ga kynar coated metals and a "W" break as outline in the NRCA. We have no valley issues, even in the frozen tundra of Wisconsin! Quality workmanship, in ANY trade, means a quality product.

That's not a woven valley or even an attempt at one ... okay, maybe it was "an attempt at one" ... but it certainly is not "woven".

If you look at the very bottom of the photo where the valley disappears near the center of the photo, it 'looks like' the weave 'may' have started out correctly above there ... 'may have'.

However, from that point on there is no "weave", they laid the shingles overlapping from the same side all the way down (the shingles from the left side of the photo are laid over the shingles from the right side of the photo) as though they were going to to do a cut valley, then never cut the shingles off.

My guess is that if they did cut the shingles off, there would not be any shingles underneath.

Originally Posted by Gary Wilson

And Matt, if done correctly valleys are no more prone to leakage than any other part of the roof. Our company does on open valley using 24ga kynar coated metals and a "W" break as outline in the NRCA. We have no valley issues, even in the frozen tundra of Wisconsin! Quality workmanship, in ANY trade, means a quality product.

Then 99% of valleys in the aging roofs I've looked at are done wrong because it's almost always the first place leakage starts. I agree when done right they won't leak as soon as when they're done wrong but it's still the weak point of any roof IMO.

This is a picture of a woven valley. It was sent to me by Roger Robinson form out in CA.

Originally Posted by Gary Wilson

And Matt, if done correctly valleys are no more prone to leakage than any other part of the roof.

Originally Posted by Matt Fellman

Then 99% of valleys in the aging roofs I've looked at are done wrong because it's almost always the first place leakage starts.

Matt,

Probably MOST valleys are done wrong in some fashion or another, it is just not visible as the part done wrong is hidden from view.

That said, what Gary said and what you see are two different things.

Gary said "if done correctly" and what you see may be done to "minimum code" ... there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between those two statements.

"Minimum code" is by no means "good", "better", or "best", it is simply the "minimum" requirements.

Scott's picture is great but I have one complaint about it. The manufactures tell you to do it that way but it leaves Key's open in the valley for debris to buildup under the tabs.
I have repaired many valley leaks because of debris buildup in the keys. The way we do it is no keys on either side of the center point of the valley for about sink inches. This gives a smooth path for water to flow. We cut the shingle at the key ways and "dutch lap" them. (overlap them a few inches).
I have roofed a few thousand that way and never had a leak in 25 years of doing it that way.

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

Scott's picture is great but I have one complaint about it. The manufactures tell you to do it that way but it leaves Key's open in the valley for debris to buildup under the tabs.
I have repaired many valley leaks because of debris buildup in the keys. The way we do it is no keys on either side of the center point of the valley for about sink inches. This gives a smooth path for water to flow. We cut the shingle at the key ways and "dutch lap" them. (overlap them a few inches).
I have roofed a few thousand that way and never had a leak in 25 years of doing it that way.

Mike


What is a sink inch??????????

Same as a floor ft. You should know that!

How about doing it with a "W" profile metal valley, (open valley), if you want no chance of leaks. 26 to 28 guage prepainted or baked enamel steel or galvalume. That way you definetly will not have any leaks in the valley. All woven or closed cut valleys WILL wear out faster than the rest of your roof, metal valleys will not!

"Dutch Laps" and woven valleys are, in my opinion, antiquated and problematic pratices and should be avoided. Closed cut valleys are useful in certain situations but as a rule metal valleys...well...rule!

As stated previously, that was someones attempt at doing a woven valley, but they neglected to bring in the opposing side when doing the basket weave soon enough, thereby allowing the full or 2/3rds shingle coursing up the opposite side.

Unless there is Ice and Water Shield under that weave attempt, it would be a highly likeley candidate for premature leakage.

Ed

When one side of the roof has a less pitch then the other you start the weave and when it starts to drift you have to double the lower side (two courses under opposing side) to bring it back to center. Apparently they just kept running it and it kept drifting up the high side.