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  1. #1
    Denise Canter's Avatar
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    Exclamation Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Hi Everyone, I have been in the home inspection business for 7 years now, and never had a situation like this. Inspected a home for a buyer, home has two flat roofs, one over the porch and one over the rest of the house. Put my ladder up to the edge of the porch roof and took a good look. However, the second roof is quite high and only accessible by pulling a ladder up from the lower roof to the higher roof, which I am not keen on doing as far as safety goes, and also planting a ladder on top of a flat roof to reach the second one. So, I tell the buyer and agent that the roof is a bit high, but there are no signs of moisture or leaking below. I am told the roof is about 5 years old. I have been under the impression that a built-up flat roof should not be walked on due to the possibility of damage, and the older they are, the more likely damage can occur, I can imagine my ladder legs could dig in a bit. So, as I am telling the buyer, the seller comes into the conversation with "My inspector got up there, and I went up there, too!". Apparently her inspector is an idiot, inviting the client up on the roof, over two stories high. I almost said what my Dad used to say to me..."If Johnny jumped off a bridge, would you jump too?". Like I'm supposed to do it just because some dummy did. So, based on that statement, my customer is now insisting that I mount that upper roof, which I don't really want to do. Oh, if this matters, I am five feet tall, thus a long ladder does present some difficulty, but I can do it with some help. I'm pretty good up to about a 16-20 foot ladder, which usually suffices in our rural area. I will take another inspector with me for the roof to help me out, but probably would not attempt this on my own. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I was always 'leap-frogging' roofs (including flat roof, ESPECIALLY flat roofs) with my ladder.

    Sometimes I would take out a smaller ladder to carry up to the first roof and set up to the second roof, other times I would just drag my 17' Little Giant up to the first roof and set it up for the second roof.

    A built-up roof should not be a problem to walk on or set your ladder on, provided your ladder has protective feet, I would not want to set the metal legs of the ladder on any roof, they could easily cut into it.

    At 5 feet, though, you are a bit short to try and pull the first ladder up, so I would carry another ladder with you, a smaller Little Giant or a medium size step ladder you could either set up or lean against the wall and go up to the second roof.

    I bought a Telesteps for that leap frogging purpose but never got comfortable with the flimsiness of those things. Convenient, yes, flimsy, yes, safe?... in my opinion that is questionable.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Oh No! The treaded never climb, sometimes climb, always climb debate is open again.

    It is your perogative as a home inspector to determine what you will and will not do as long as you meet the minimuns of the SOP of your association or state licensing. If you determine it is unsafe or beyond your capabilites, you decide which roofs to climb.

    Even if your SOP indicates you will inspect something, all you have to do to cover yourself legally is declare in the report that you were unable to inspect the component or system due to the specific circumstances and list the circumstances.

    The customer can rant and rave. You can either cave to their rant or follow your heart. If they put up to much fuss, then refund the fee and get a waiver against any future claim signed by them.

    At the end of the day, you want to be able to go home to your family. If you determine it is unsafe for you, then stick to your assesment.

    Whether or not some other inspector will climb a roof should not enter your decision. It is your butt that will land on the hard ground, not theirs.

    I have the heavy duty telesteps that only weighs 25 pounds. I have used it to leap frog a roof or two. Every time I was unhappy about it. Every time I found something on the second roof. I use binoculars more and more often for the multi story roofs.

    "The Code is not a peak to reach but a foundation to build from."

  4. #4
    Denise Canter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Hi, Thanks for your comments. Part of the problem getting from the lower roof to the upper one is that the gap from one roof to the next is high due to 12' ceilings, thus that span is higher than the one from the ground to the lower roof. Already mounted the lower roof. I've done this before by going out a window to the lower roof, no windows here. The agent claims the client wants it done by us due to the seller's comment that she was on the roof with her inspector. At first, the client was fine with my explanation. When I meet her tomorrow, I plan to at least elicit the story about the seller going up with her inspector so I can say he was an idiot to start with as that is a BAD practice as far as I am concerned. And also to speak to the agent about liability, I state in my contract that the customer is at their own risk and I take no responsibility for their actions. The house is a mess, almost three pages of deficiencies, makes me wonder what the last inspector found just 5 years ago. Frankly, if I were the buyer, I wouldn't give it a second look.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Not going on roofs will eventually lead to a lawsuit which you will more than likely lose.
    It is our job to protect our clients. Doing the bare minimum does not work.
    Look at your post and read it as a prospective client.
    Spend the money on some lightweight equipment you can handle and do your job like a professional, not like a politician.


  6. #6
    Denise Canter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Wayne, I do go on roofs. But I don't risk my health and life unnecessarily. Do you go on EVERY roof, regardless? My equipment is lightweight, it's the span that's the problem, not the weight of my ladder, The second span would require the longer ladder. I use a light weight, folding type, usually. Not so sure my extension ladder (26') will reach the top, it's a weird set-up.
    It's always a risk to go on a roof, and those who don't see that will get themselves hurt. Sort of like motorcycles, there are two kinds- ones that have been down, and ones that are going down. If you don't respect that, you'll be in the second category.
    As I said in my original post, my client was fine with my explanation until the seller piped up after the fact that she had gone up with her inspector. Also, it was way windy that day, that was risky enough to peek at the lower one.
    These reponses are a little funny, I posted on here a few years ago, once again about roof heights and ladders, many of you responded that you don't walk a roof at all!


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    If there is doubt that you can get on the second roof safely especially if you can't secure the ladder properly, then you have nothing to worry about as long as you report it as a limitation. I know a lot of guys that take the risk of getting on a roof when they shouldn't. Doesn't mean everyone else has to.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I sometimes will pack my 6' ladder up to get to another roof section. But I will not pack it up much higher than 12'. If the roof is to steep or to tall I inspect with binoculars from the ground, lower roof sections etc. My longest ladder is 24' this is the highest I go. I have found that many times you can access 2nd story roofs more easily and safely by climbing out a second story window. When walking 2nd story roofs I try to always have a lower roof section below me in case of a slip or fall.


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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Hi Denise, Welcome to the board....

    The roof thing is a tough question at times. As most have said, your safety is the most important thing. More important than any one inspection fee or a relationship with a realtor, particularly one that doesn't understand your respect for safety. My take is to do what you're comfortable with but communicate, communicate, communicate. A lack of communication will lead to a problem.

    One thing that caught my attention is one of your comments about all the other problems in the house and you don't know why they're giving it a look at all.

    Be carful to not pass judgement on a house as a whole. We never know what a person's plans are. Maybe their uncle is a general contractor and is going to come in and overhaul the whole place. Maybe it's a screaming deal priced 40K below market value.

    This concept is exactly how I answer the all so common question of "would you buy this house?" Of course I would, I answer. I'd buy any house if the price were right.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Denise,

    You were there and if it is a Safety Issue ( each of us makes that call ) that's all you need to state.

    " Well You and your Inspector May have gone up there But for my personal safety I will not be going up there today. "

    * you may have removed that zinsco dead front on the electrical panel but as there is a history of live breakers falling out of the panel for My personal safety I will not.

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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Luce View Post
    I know a lot of guys that take the risk of getting on a roof when they shouldn't. Doesn't mean everyone else has to.

    Absolutely agree.

    I went on many roofs which I said to myself 'I shouldn't go on that roof,', then did anyway, only to regret it once on the roof.

    Getting on is the easy part, getting back off ... that is a completely different story and one which should be thoroughly thought out before getting on.

    I took each roof on as a challenge, I also have some inspector friends who did the same and did not have the same outcome as I did - they fell off two story roofs, I was stupid enough to be lucky enough not to fall off.

    As most are saying, *YOU* have to decide if *YOU* think it is safe for *YOU*.

    Keep in mind what Forest Gump frequently said: "Momma said "Stupid is as stupid does." ", don't do anything you feel is unsafe.

    Look at it this way, what did you find on the lower roof? Probably several things, right? Then write it up as 'the roofer needs to repair blah, blah, blah on the lower roof and any thing they find on the upper roof too.'. If the buyer takes a credit instead of having the roof repaired, *they* are the ones taking the gamble that there is nothing else on the upper roof. The upper roof is probably in worse condition than the lower roof.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  12. #12
    Denise Canter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Thanks again for all the great comments. Matt, no worries, I would never say that to a client, I never give advice as to whether they should buy the house or not. But I do think it, as we all probably do.

    Going back to the house tomorrow for some other stuff, taking my longer ladder and some help...supposed to rain anyhow.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    As my wife occasionally points out when I'm going out the door : "Dead inspectors write no reports."

    I would like to get up on every roof, but sometimes you just can't inspect safely, or without risk of damage to the property. In those cases all you can do is report the limitations of your inspection and recommend a more thorough evaluation by someone equipped and insured to walk that particular roof.

    And IMO that should be your call not anyone else's - your client is not going to offer pay your hospital bills or funeral expenses, and the seller is not going to be understanding if the foot of your ladder gouges up their sun-heated BUR.

    Every inspector has physical limitations to what they can do safely. At 5" 0" there are some things you are just not going to be able to do safely, just as at 5' 8" there are some things I just can't do safely, for example I know that if it's windy I'm taking too big a chance if I take a 32 foot ladder off the truck and will have to use it anything close to full extension.

    Every inspector is going to encounter these kinds of situations, and IMO one of the things that help make such decisions is to have a predefined set of rules about what you consider your own standard operating procedure.

    For example, mine is that a client can reasonably expect me to inspect, at least from the eaves, any roof I can safely reach with my 24 foot ladder equipped with step through extension bars, which as a practical matter allow me to stand on the top rung of the fully extended 24 foot ladder at observe everything I can from an eave, or to step on to a reasonably pitched roof where the top rung is no lower than the roof edge.

    The reasons I have these predefined limits is that there is no limit to what some clients expect; if I had my 40 foot ladder on the truck there are clients who would expect me to set up in a 4 foot wide gangway, thread the thing up through service drops, and then stand on tiptoe on the top rung to haul myself up over the parapet, and I need to impose these limits on myself in advance or I may allow my clients expectations or my own desire to do the best possible job to override common sense.

    So that's it in terms of "reasonably expect", if circumstances permit I may do more, for example if I have sufficient space to raise it, the good surface on which to set it, it's not windy, there no service drops or other obstructions, I may get the 32 footer off the truck - but that's only if I'm confident I can do so safely.

    "Roof hopping" to me is not in the category of something clients can "reasonably expect", instead falls into the category of things I might do if access and other conditions are such that I can do so with reasonably low risk to myself and the property.

    And if once every seven years I have to hand back a clients check, so be it.

    ---------

    Here's a good example from last week, the 10 feet or so at the accessible end of the roof were a skating rink.

    Inspected from the ladder, with binoculars.

    No question this roof has problems, and likely more problems l than I could see were I was.

    And sure, I could have put on my coils and walked most of it, but IMO whatever additional information I could have provided was not nearly worth the risk.

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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    A few weeks ago I had a homeowner provide me with a 32' aluminum ladder so that I could access the flat 2nd floor roof. It started when I made the appointment and told them that I only had a 24' ladder and that would not be tall enough to safely access their roof. The owner said not problem! He and his neighbor bought a 32' ladder because over the years he had other contractors who said the same thing.

    So I get to the house, it is about 35f and fairly calm wind. I', 6'2" and weigh in around 260lbs. It was all I could do to get the ladder up and on the side of the of the home to the roof. When I went to take it down the spikes on the bottom feet had dug into the ground so I had to pick the ladder up. When I did this the balance point was about 8' above my head! I could not hold it and it ended up crashing down into a birdbath and a couple of yard art Gnomes. Could have been worse, their was a huge picture window about another 3' away.

    Needless to say I will not do this again. If I can't reach it with my LG 17, or if the pitch is over 6/12 I will not be going on that roof. It is just not worth it.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Sorry to hear that - but it's great example.

    My 32' is an aluminum Type II, it's awfully bouncy at full extension, but my judgment is that I'm trading a risk I can largely control - setting up at a location where I might hit an energized service drop - for reducing some risks I can't easily control given the weight of a 32' fiberglass type III ladder, a sudden gust of wind or ladder that is in your case turns out to be just to heavy for a single individual to handle safely when there is some other complicating factor. (Yes, I'm aware of the possibilities of energized aluminum siding and the like).

    I'm careful about when I use it, but still I don't like that ladder - and I'm 4" and 80 lbs short of your size.

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    The most important thing is to be able to leave the inspection under your own power and not in an ambulance. Like many others have said, if you don't feel comfortable with the situation, it is your call and your call alone. But, be prepared to occassionally get some static from your clients when you make these calls.


  17. #17
    Denise Canter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Lots of good common sense here, for sure. I've been on many a roof, and many that I couldn't get to. I've always been able to reason with people, I mean, they really don't want to get their inspector hurt, has been my experience. This customer was overly insistent. I was supposed to go back today, but apparently, the deal is falling through.

    House is a mess, big time electrical probs, plumbing probs, bootlegged septic system...but waterfront, so the shack is worth a pretty penny.

    Thanks again for all the great insight. Denise


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I had a homeowner raise an interesting point last year. He asked if I carried workmen's comp on myself. Like many of you, I do not. He was worried about his protection if I fell off of his roof while inspecting it. I called an attorney, who basically said that if I was inspecting for him at his house, there would be liability on his end if I was injured and chose to pursue it legally. It can of course be waived, but I don't have any form ready for action.

    The next area would be inspecting for a buyer on a seller's house, and an injury occurs to either me or the client. That's an even grayer area, and after talking to the attorney, I"m glad that more people don't bring it up. It may or may not come under the homeowner's policy, depending on what happened and other circumstances.

    Anyone else come across this?

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  19. #19
    Denise Canter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Hi Jim, Workman's comp would have nothing to do with liability, they are two different things for two different purposes. There is no requirement for workman's comp for the self-employed as the protection it provides is pretty much limited to costs associated with the injury and lost compensation if the person is incapacitated, and is mandatory for a business having employees (not independent contractors).

    However, general liability should be carried by us all to protect ourselves and our company should an injury occur. It is my understanding that one could pursue a case against a homeowner's insurance company, but I doubt it would fly. GL will also cover other damage, like Scott's yard gnomes, bird bath, and the picture window, had it been hit. Or somebody's truck...as was my experience once, damn ladder came over on me as I was taking it down, thank Jah, just missed a truck by a hair! Made me sweat for a moment there, a REAL oh-**** moment.

    In my case that started this thread, I want to impress on that agent what I perceive to be the way it would go should the client mount the roof and get hurt. First, they would sue me through my insurance company, who would likely sue the homeowner's insurance company, who would very likely try to make the case that the property was under control of the agent at the time the incident occurred, thus they become the responsible party. That case could be much stronger, especially as most times we are there inspecting with our client and the agent, the seller is not there most of the time, at least around here. Some of the crappier agents don't show at all, not sure what that would mean in event of injury.

    Yet, it would be the buyer's agent who opened up the house and was in control of the property. Furthermore, my inspection contract has a clause that states the client "is at his/her own risk during the inspection", and though it may not completely release me from liability, I think a court would entertain that as it is agreed to by the client as evidenced by signature. I put that in and ran it by my lawyer as a minor means of protection. And, I have no problem reminding my client of that if they want to do something dumb like mount the roof or open the electrical panel box.

    General liability isn't too expensive, I carry a million per occurance with a 2 mil aggregate, it costs me about $750 a year, and covers two inspectors who are contractors, as well as me. No, I do not carry workman's comp on those two. I don't feel it is cost-prohibitive to protect myself "just-in-case". Here in Maryland, the licensing board only requires $50,000, but me and my insurance agent couldn't find coverage that low. Besides, 50G won't do much when the lawsuit comes around.

    Having a good inspection contract is mandatory, if you just use the one that comes with the report (if you buy yours) it probably isn't enough. That is an additional layer of protection for you. I wrote my own using many others as well as my own thoughts, took it to my lawyer and passed it by him. If you want to see it, post your email and I can send it to you, should you be interested.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I bought a 32 footer last year. It's about all I can handle. I'm still waiting for the chance to use it. 80 lbs is not that much really but when you spread it out across that length it can be tricky.

    I need to find a good place to practice with it.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I'm aware of the difference between GL and workmen's comp. I was hijacking the thread to talk about a different topic.

    GL isn't going to do you any good if you fall of the roof, unless you happen to land on the owner's car and break his windshield. I do have health insurance, but I bet there are a lot of inspectors out there who do not. I do not currently have any disability or business interuption insurance if I were to break my leg or my back on an inspection.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  22. #22
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr View Post
    I bought a 32 footer last year. It's about all I can handle. I'm still waiting for the chance to use it. 80 lbs is not that much really but when you spread it out across that length it can be tricky.

    I need to find a good place to practice with it.

    If I had to get on a 32 foot ladder to get onto a roof I wouldn't be going up there. Ther eis a disclaimer to that though. If I could get to a lower roof that was flat enough and then a 17 foot gorilla ladder from there that would be another story.

    who said it earlier about an injured or dead inspector cannot inspect.

    Once upon a time a 32 foot ladder was in my possesion but not now and never again. It is just way to uncomfotable unless you use it all the time. No one on hearuses a 32 foot ladder on a regular enough basis to be completely comfortable on it. If you are not comfortable or even slightly nervous on it then don't get on it. Most of you are old farts and that is what you will be doing all the wat up and down. The hight of a roof for a 32 foot ladder to get to is to high in itself where most of you would not even be comfortable with the high because again you are not doing it often enough. Stay off the roofs that you are not comfortable on.

    John Dirks

    You bought that ladder a year ago and have not used it so you have not climbed that high on a ladder or been on a roof that high for the ladder to reach. Sell it. You will thank yourself.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I'll probably catch major grief for this but.... I have a 12-foot ladder and reach what I can reach. I communiate it with my clients, have a great pair of binoculars and have never encountered a problem because of it.

    The main reasoning behind it is for my employee's workers comp. insurance they don't use anything taller and I don't want to do differently and be inconsistent.

    There have been a couple commercial buildings over the years that I have been unable to get on top of and I will usually adjust the fee or have a roofing contractor come out and do it for me.

    People are very understanding as long as you explain it to them.


  24. #24
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I had a fall from around 25 feet and that can mess things up a bit. 32' ladder not part of my job. I do like to get on the roofs and walk them but I'm not going to pack a 32 foot ladder around. Time for a roofer... I stay off tile roofs or anything that I may damage by walking on it.

    Its is best to keep your feet on the ground at all times.

    Best

    Ron


  25. #25
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I will use only a fiberglas ladder,short 6ft and tall 24 ft,dont want to get zapped with aluminum one when I close to to electric,I ve seen over the years painters and roofers get killed with aluminum ladders hitting electric drops,yes I know there where other problems ,but I dont want to chance it,,,,,,,,, Don

    Don Anderson

  26. #26
    Denise Canter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Hey Jim the Hijacker...my GL covers bodily harm, so it would help if someone fell, no need to break a windshield...


  27. #27
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Personal safety and comfort level comes first for us. But I can honestly say that if I didn't carry a 32 footer, I wouldn't be getting onto almost 1/2 of the roofs of houses I look at in Philly. A 28 footer may be sufficient.

    John, what size ladder do you use for Philly inspections?


  28. #28
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Personal safety and comfort level comes first for us. But I can honestly say that if I didn't carry a 32 footer, I wouldn't be getting onto almost 1/2 of the roofs of houses I look at in Philly. A 28 footer may be sufficient.

    John, what size ladder do you use for Philly inspections?
    I use a 28 foot fiberglass, and sometimes it doesn't get me there. Having said that, a 32 foot wouldn't get me everywhere, either.
    On many a row home, I've carried the 28 foot through the house to the back, where the roof is just low enough to get me up there.

    "There is no exception to the rule that every rule has an exception." -James Thurber, writer and cartoonist (1894-1961)
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    More thread hijacking! I really don't worry about who has what insurance. I know I'm covered with my GL, E&O, Auto, Homeowners, Major Med, and my wife's favorite Life insurance. If something happens I will be taken care of one way or the other as well as any job I'm working on. The insurance folks will work out the details through subrogation if needed with the owner or whoever.

    Bottom line is if anyone gets injured or worse at your home, your homeowners is what protects you and them if they select to go that way.

    Now back to the ridiculous talk about walking on roofs that birds can't even remain on!

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  30. #30
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    More thread hijacking! I really don't worry about who has what insurance. I know I'm covered with my GL, E&O, Auto, Homeowners, Major Med, and my wife's favorite Life insurance. If something happens I will be taken care of one way or the other as well as any job I'm working on. The insurance folks will work out the details through subrogation if needed with the owner or whoever.

    Bottom line is if anyone gets injured or worse at your home, your homeowners is what protects you and them if they select to go that way.

    Now back to the ridiculous talk about walking on roofs that birds can't even remain on!

    Your wife probably wishes you had a 32 foot ladder. She probably would up the kitty a liitle to a mil or more if she knew you were using one of those. She would see you backing out of the driveway with the 32 on your truck saying

    "YES"


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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Your wife probably wishes you had a 32 foot ladder. She probably would up the kitty a liitle to a mil or more if she knew you were using one of those. She would see you backing out of the driveway with the 32 on your truck saying

    "YES"
    .

    Could be! The sad thing is that I now have more in life insurance than in my retirement accounts after the market tanked. Oh well, it will build back hopefully within the next 20 years when I'm ready to access it.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  32. #32
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Follow all manufacture's recommendations.

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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    I don't see the difference between climbing up the ladder to one twelve foot roof from the ground, or, climbing a ladder another twelve feet from the flat roof. Depending on the size of the landing area, you are still only going to fall roughly twelve feet!

    I just drag the ladder from the ground to the first flat roof, then go up. I don't think I have seen a double flat roof, however, sometimes, using the balcony to set up your ladder to get to the second story tile or shingle roof, is the only thing to do.

    I too have looked back on my career and can recall several roofs that I probably wouldn't go on today. Being nearly 50 and having to take care of an 11 month old tends to change your way of thinking. They say "with age comes wisdom". That might be true.

    In my younger days, I used to drag the ladder up on the firs floor of the tile roof to get to the second story tile roof. I also used to jump off of most roofs....you know, to get done quicker!

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Hi Denise,
    Haven't seen you in a while. I remember when I was a new inspector and I learned my first "field lesson". I arrived at the inspection and the brother in law contractor was there. As I was inspecting the roof from the ladder when the brother in law says "You're going to go up on the roof to inspect it aren't you?" Not being to smart that morning I went up on the roof. It was a much steeper roof than I was comfortable being on and as we all know it is harder coming down than going up. I think it is only because I used to rock climb that I didn't have to call 911 for a rescue. Well by the time I got back down, I was worn out. From that day forward I will not go up on a roof unless I am comfortable. I write it up as restricted due to height, pitch or hazard to the inspector and I really have not had any problems with my clients.

    Just my two cents.


  35. #35
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Well .. as a Home owner, I would like to say.. that some of you guys are just way overzealous with your job.. a little too barney fife like with your clip boards and speculation... You go beyond the scope of what the InterNACHI recommends or expects from you which opens you up to liability to the home owner...
    NO WHERE does it say you have to walk a roof.. or even recommends that you walk a roof..
    you are to inspect the roof COVERING visually and point out any apparent defects such as worn shingles.. You are also NOT supposed to make a comment on the roof installation of fastening methods ..or give Life expectancies of the roof.. But some of you do.. which again opens yourself up to liability..
    I had some IDIOT inspector come here to my home.. Walked on my roof and I must have had a fcouple popped nails that he had to have DEliberately PUSHED completely through my 3 month old shingles .. I had just looked at the Porch roof that morning and NO NAILS were through the shingles..I also had a low slope (almost flat) roof complete tear off with all new materials installed.. NO LEAKS what so ever.. This IDIOT said the roof looked like it wasnt installed by a professional and needed to be torn off and replaced.. NOT that it wasnt installed correctly.. his thing was it wasnt as PERFECT as he would like it to be.. there was a little more roofing Cement outside the seams than he thought there should be.. there was absolutely NO REASON to tear that roof off and replace it.. He also told the buyer that I needed Window Wells in front of my basement windows that are almost a foot above grade to the bottom of the window... then recommended that Window well covers be placed over them.. and my driveway goes up next to my house .. how do you install window wells into a driveway ???? No REASON for Window wells to be installed.. He also had in his report that Ice Damming was observed on the roof , IT WAS THE MIDDLE OF JUNE AND 85 DEGREES OUT ???? he also said that he couldnt observe any active leak areas due to lack of rain we were getting( We had just had a massive monsoon of a storm come through the night before and Dumped about 8" of rain and flooded all kinds of peoples yards and basements... he mentioned that the two braided stainless steel in and out lines on my water heater were Non-workmanship and should be replaced.. he also told the buyer that she should look at getting a larger water heater than the 40 gallon tank I have.. also stated the buyer would need to go around my exposed foundation with cement stucco ???? for some reason.. also listed an exposed drain as not having enough pitch to drain correctly.. that the correct pitch is .25 for every 12" of run.. the drain is 15 foot long and is elevated approx 6" which is .50 per 12" run ??? also said that the insulation in the attic should be replaced with all new insulation (its blown in insulation).. also stated that the soffits should vented ( and they are)
    I added a bathroom to the basement and ran water lines in from the existing lines already in the basement, he listed it as I should have removed ALL exposed copper lines and replaced them with new since I was adding new lines anyway ???? ( ALL MY COPPER LINES ARE EXPOSED) he said the kitchen counter which is a nice tiled counter should be torn out and replaced non-workmanship quality was his reason????? there is NOTHING wrong with it we have gotten nothing but compliments on it.. .. he said that the floors needed the trim completed ??? there isnt a room in my house that has unfinished trim work??? I am seriously considering a law suit against this IDIOT...and IF you were smart.. you would stay off of homeowners ROOFs.. you might be working for the Client.. But your walking on MY roof.. Not the clients and if you damage it.. I have to handle it..NOT Your Client.. and I WILL Come after you for it..... and IF you damage it.. You should be sued for it.. Also If you slip and FALL off the roof.. I guess My Homeowners insurance would have to Cover that to .. ??? Correct ??? Stay the heck off our roofs One Bullet Barney !!! Do your Job but DONT OVER DO IT...




  36. #36
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Up here the Ministry of Labour requires anyone on a roof to be tethered otherwise large fines can be issued.

    As others pointed out the second roof should have been disclaimed. There is no way I would ever take a second ladder up on the first roof. As a matter of fact I only carry a 10' jaws ladder and thats the limit.

    There are many horror stories of inspectors falling from ladders, and roofs. Some as a result have succumb to their injuries.

    Bruce Ramsey summed it up succinctly.


  37. #37
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    wow, don't know about the other problems since I wasn't there, but I always walk the roof,unless its tile or slate, but if the nails pop out from walking on it ,,come on,,its not installed right

    Don Anderson

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Anderson View Post
    wow, don't know about the other problems since I wasn't there, but I always walk the roof,unless its tile or slate, but if the nails pop out from walking on it ,,come on,,its not installed right
    I had the roofers come back out.. and my assumption is.. their guns were worn out or not enough Air Pressure in the line and not driving the nails deep enough and with the cold and heat they just worked themselves up ( which is NOT a rare thing ) and DOES happen on Correctly installed roofs ( this is a mechanical issue, not an installation issue).. Even if in the case that the roof wasnt installed correctly and there were nails popping up all over.. the Problem is the foot traffic over the roof that is putting about 200 pounds of weight on a hot roof and PUSHING the nails though the shingles... So I guess your saying that you guys are beyond being SUED for causing or contributing to the damage that will lead to an eventual roof failure ???? because you were hired by the NON-homeowner to WALK on my roof.. How about I sue the Inspector, the Buyer and the Roofers ???? I sue the roofers for using poor equipment, I sue the inspector for walking on my roof and pushing the nails through my Shingles and I sue the Buyer for Hiring the Inspector to WALK on my Roof.. I think that would just about do it... Your comment is like saying because someone didnt paint your car correctly I can just scratch the paint off of it no problem and its NOT my fault ???? Correct?
    You are Responsible for WHAT you do or cause during an inspection and that includes damage to a roof.... Do NOT think you are beyond the scope of the Law and just seeing how it is worded with your associations guidelines.. they will NOT back you up for walking on a roof... they have worded it in a way to not direct you or require you to walk on a roof , so that will be their disclaimer.. I feel You should have to have PERMISSION from the homeowner to walk on his / her roof... written Permission.. or You dont Do it... I had to have the roof certified and the certification even listed damage caused by Foot traffic is not covered under the certification...
    So how does that hit home for you....??? liability doesnt go just one way.. it goes in EVERY direction...


  39. #39
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    I had the roofers come back out.. and my assumption is.. their guns were worn out or not enough Air Pressure in the line and not driving the nails deep enough and with the cold and heat they just worked themselves up ( which is NOT a rare thing ) and DOES happen on Correctly installed roofs ( this is a mechanical issue, not an installation issue).. Even if in the case that the roof wasnt installed correctly and there were nails popping up all over.. the Problem is the foot traffic over the roof that is putting about 200 pounds of weight on a hot roof and PUSHING the nails though the shingles... So I guess your saying that you guys are beyond being SUED for causing or contributing to the damage that will lead to an eventual roof failure ???? because you were hired by the NON-homeowner to WALK on my roof.. How about I sue the Inspector, the Buyer and the Roofers ???? I sue the roofers for using poor equipment, I sue the inspector for walking on my roof and pushing the nails through my Shingles and I sue the Buyer for Hiring the Inspector to WALK on my Roof.. I think that would just about do it... Your comment is like saying because someone didnt paint your car correctly I can just scratch the paint off of it no problem and its NOT my fault ???? Correct?
    You are Responsible for WHAT you do or cause during an inspection and that includes damage to a roof.... Do NOT think you are beyond the scope of the Law and just seeing how it is worded with your associations guidelines.. they will NOT back you up for walking on a roof... they have worded it in a way to not direct you or require you to walk on a roof , so that will be their disclaimer.. I feel You should have to have PERMISSION from the homeowner to walk on his / her roof... written Permission.. or You dont Do it... I had to have the roof certified and the certification even listed damage caused by Foot traffic is not covered under the certification...
    So how does that hit home for you....??? liability doesnt go just one way.. it goes in EVERY direction...

    I had some IDIOT inspector come here to my home.. Walked on my roof and I must have had a fcouple popped nails that he had to have DEliberately PUSHED completely through my 3 month old shingles
    If the nails "popped" as you put it on a three month old roof, something is seriously wrong.

    On the other hand, the improper pressure on the air gun is what actually caused the problem. The installer more than likely used a small "pancake" compressor for the nail gun. Some times the pressure was too much for the gun which results in over-driven nails. Other times, not enough which results in under-driven nails.

    http://www.magnuminspections.com/PDF/H-sample.pdf

    You should call the inspector and thank him for pointing out the improperly installed roof covering.

    As to the rest of your post, did you pull any permits for the work "you" did?

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

  40. #40
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    Well .. as a Home owner, I would like to say.. that some of you guys are just way overzealous with your job.. a little too barney fife like with your clip boards and speculation... You go beyond the scope of what the InterNACHI recommends or expects from you which opens you up to liability to the home owner...
    NO WHERE does it say you have to walk a roof.. or even recommends that you walk a roof..
    you are to inspect the roof COVERING visually and point out any apparent defects such as worn shingles.. You are also NOT supposed to make a comment on the roof installation of fastening methods ..or give Life expectancies of the roof.. But some of you do.. which again opens yourself up to liability..
    I had some IDIOT inspector come here to my home.. Walked on my roof and I must have had a fcouple popped nails that he had to have DEliberately PUSHED completely through my 3 month old shingles .. I had just looked at the Porch roof that morning and NO NAILS were through the shingles..I also had a low slope (almost flat) roof complete tear off with all new materials installed.. NO LEAKS what so ever.. This IDIOT said the roof looked like it wasnt installed by a professional and needed to be torn off and replaced.. NOT that it wasnt installed correctly.. his thing was it wasnt as PERFECT as he would like it to be.. there was a little more roofing Cement outside the seams than he thought there should be.. there was absolutely NO REASON to tear that roof off and replace it.. He also told the buyer that I needed Window Wells in front of my basement windows that are almost a foot above grade to the bottom of the window... then recommended that Window well covers be placed over them.. and my driveway goes up next to my house .. how do you install window wells into a driveway ???? No REASON for Window wells to be installed.. He also had in his report that Ice Damming was observed on the roof , IT WAS THE MIDDLE OF JUNE AND 85 DEGREES OUT ???? he also said that he couldnt observe any active leak areas due to lack of rain we were getting( We had just had a massive monsoon of a storm come through the night before and Dumped about 8" of rain and flooded all kinds of peoples yards and basements... he mentioned that the two braided stainless steel in and out lines on my water heater were Non-workmanship and should be replaced.. he also told the buyer that she should look at getting a larger water heater than the 40 gallon tank I have.. also stated the buyer would need to go around my exposed foundation with cement stucco ???? for some reason.. also listed an exposed drain as not having enough pitch to drain correctly.. that the correct pitch is .25 for every 12" of run.. the drain is 15 foot long and is elevated approx 6" which is .50 per 12" run ??? also said that the insulation in the attic should be replaced with all new insulation (its blown in insulation).. also stated that the soffits should vented ( and they are)
    I added a bathroom to the basement and ran water lines in from the existing lines already in the basement, he listed it as I should have removed ALL exposed copper lines and replaced them with new since I was adding new lines anyway ???? ( ALL MY COPPER LINES ARE EXPOSED) he said the kitchen counter which is a nice tiled counter should be torn out and replaced non-workmanship quality was his reason????? there is NOTHING wrong with it we have gotten nothing but compliments on it.. .. he said that the floors needed the trim completed ??? there isnt a room in my house that has unfinished trim work??? I am seriously considering a law suit against this IDIOT...and IF you were smart.. you would stay off of homeowners ROOFs.. you might be working for the Client.. But your walking on MY roof.. Not the clients and if you damage it.. I have to handle it..NOT Your Client.. and I WILL Come after you for it..... and IF you damage it.. You should be sued for it.. Also If you slip and FALL off the roof.. I guess My Homeowners insurance would have to Cover that to .. ??? Correct ??? Stay the heck off our roofs One Bullet Barney !!! Do your Job but DONT OVER DO IT...
    I won't speak for any concerns you had with the home inspector but as far as it being "your" roof. It is about to be my clients roof.

    As far as every single thing the other inspector found at "your" house and you say that everything he found was absolute bunk???? Do you know how many things you listed here? Really?

    You sound like an extremely unhappy man that had a buyers inspector find quite a bit going on in "your" home and you are extremely unhappy with that fact.

    Sorry you are so unhappy. They do make happy pills you know! Wo cares what Internachi says.

    As far as some of "us" guys being over zealous? Seriously? You have had other hme inspectors you were completely unhappy with that did not know their butt from their front side?

    Like I said. They do produce happy pills for the woefully unhappy. Do you actually drive a car????? I can see the road rage coming.

    Not suppose to comment on the roofs installation or fastening methods?????? Please get a grip and head to the doctors office. I see a crappy roof and I say exactly that. Poor installation and improper fasteners or not enopugh fasteners or a nail gun was used and there are multiple nail pops or flashing is not proper or valleys are not properly laid.

    Well you went and did it. I try to stay off her because I read crap like this from people like you and just cannot keepp my mouth shut.

    THANK GOD I HAVE TO WORK TODAY...............FOR THE 29TH DAY STRAIGHT. I WOULD PSYCHOANALYZE YOU ALL DAY.


  41. #41
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Dear Mr/Ms Sick,

    I'm sorry you hired the low ball fly by night roofing guys that cut corners, used the Cheapest Materials and now you were found out.

    Don't fret some Idiot will hire a Drive by Inspector that will miss this mess.

    You should be concerned about all that other stuff you covered up / did not disclose.

    Homeowners can be sued too.

    It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
    Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    I won't speak for any concerns you had with the home inspector but as far as it being "your" roof. It is about to be my clients roof.

    As far as every single thing the other inspector found at "your" house and you say that everything he found was absolute bunk???? Do you know how many things you listed here? Really?

    You sound like an extremely unhappy man that had a buyers inspector find quite a bit going on in "your" home and you are extremely unhappy with that fact.

    Sorry you are so unhappy. They do make happy pills you know! Wo cares what Internachi says.

    As far as some of "us" guys being over zealous? Seriously? You have had other hme inspectors you were completely unhappy with that did not know their butt from their front side?

    Like I said. They do produce happy pills for the woefully unhappy. Do you actually drive a car????? I can see the road rage coming.

    Not suppose to comment on the roofs installation or fastening methods?????? Please get a grip and head to the doctors office. I see a crappy roof and I say exactly that. Poor installation and improper fasteners or not enopugh fasteners or a nail gun was used and there are multiple nail pops or flashing is not proper or valleys are not properly laid.

    Well you went and did it. I try to stay off her because I read crap like this from people like you and just cannot keepp my mouth shut.

    THANK GOD I HAVE TO WORK TODAY...............FOR THE 29TH DAY STRAIGHT. I WOULD PSYCHOANALYZE YOU ALL DAY.
    Yeah./..and they make court rooms for people such as yourself.. And YES I pulled permits for any work I have done or had done.. as if its actually any business of yours to start with.. I guess NOW your a REAL City Building Inspector instead of some overzealous wannabe with some Vistaprint business cards and a couple of online course or seminars/conventions under your belt .. Correct ?? Now..As far as Your Clients NEW roof.. It isnt their roof until it transfers.. until then .. ITS MY ROOF... and if you want to challenge that in a Court of Law, I would be More than happy to accept that challenge... I guess you can just go and tear up all over someones car that they are selling because you are looking at it for your client that MIGHT actually buy it ???? so that Give you the right to just do as YOU please, no matter what the outcome is ???? How about NO... It doesnt.. and I will challenge anybody that says they do.. as you stated you should take your own advice as you said and You should really keep your mouth shut.. Really.. you opened it and showed what a rear end you are.. Happy pills.. Really ???? lets see how happy you are when a certified letter shows up at your door next time you mess something up... Everything I stated was Fact... not Speculation which is WHAT You WILL BE SUED FOR....I have a feeling the vast majority of what was in the report was Copy and PAste... Ice Damming in the middle of June on an 85 degree day ??????? window wells for above grade windows ????? no active leaks because of no rain when it poured for nearly 3 straight days ??? Cement stucco around my foundation ??? For what ???? there is no water problems .. Replace the blown in insulation in my attic??? WHY ???? install vented soffits when they are already vented ???this guys job is to inspect the house as it is.. not tell the buyer to replace everything even if it didnt need replacing or what grounds would the inspector have to say to go to a larger water heater size ?????? From my understanding its Family size and demand.. this was a single woman.. No Kids.. how much demand could she have to require a 50 gallon tank over a 40 gallon tank ????? and NOT explaining his reasons to think so...she left thinking the watertank was undersized and she would have to get a new one...
    Or what is wrong with the stainless steel braided water heater lines for the water tank ??? this guy was full of himself and some other stuff.... I guess you feel that your actually doing a good job by giving your client a 15 page booklet full of non-sense... I feel that legislation should be brought forth to hold Bad inspectors liable for the crap they spew to their unknowing clients..you could tell them the house is made of gingerbread and they would believe you...you should be laible for what you say, do or write in your report.. if you can not back it up with fact.. then you are wrong..


  43. #43
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    Yeah./..and they make court rooms for people such as yourself.. And YES I pulled permits for any work I have done or had done.. as if its actually any business of yours to start with.. I guess NOW your a REAL City Building Inspector instead of some overzealous wannabe with some Vistaprint business cards and a couple of online course or seminars/conventions under your belt .. Correct ?? Now..As far as Your Clients NEW roof.. It isnt their roof until it transfers.. until then .. ITS MY ROOF... and if you want to challenge that in a Court of Law, I would be More than happy to accept that challenge... I guess you can just go and tear up all over someones car that they are selling because you are looking at it for your client that MIGHT actually buy it ???? so that Give you the right to just do as YOU please, no matter what the outcome is ???? How about NO... It doesnt.. and I will challenge anybody that says they do.. as you stated you should take your own advice as you said and You should really keep your mouth shut.. Really.. you opened it and showed what a rear end you are.. Happy pills.. Really ???? lets see how happy you are when a certified letter shows up at your door next time you mess something up... Everything I stated was Fact... not Speculation which is WHAT You WILL BE SUED FOR....I have a feeling the vast majority of what was in the report was Copy and PAste... Ice Damming in the middle of June on an 85 degree day ??????? window wells for above grade windows ????? no active leaks because of no rain when it poured for nearly 3 straight days ??? Cement stucco around my foundation ??? For what ???? there is no water problems .. Replace the blown in insulation in my attic??? WHY ???? install vented soffits when they are already vented ???this guys job is to inspect the house as it is.. not tell the buyer to replace everything even if it didnt need replacing or what grounds would the inspector have to say to go to a larger water heater size ?????? From my understanding its Family size and demand.. this was a single woman.. No Kids.. how much demand could she have to require a 50 gallon tank over a 40 gallon tank ????? and NOT explaining his reasons to think so...she left thinking the watertank was undersized and she would have to get a new one...
    Or what is wrong with the stainless steel braided water heater lines for the water tank ??? this guy was full of himself and some other stuff.... I guess you feel that your actually doing a good job by giving your client a 15 page booklet full of non-sense... I feel that legislation should be brought forth to hold Bad inspectors liable for the crap they spew to their unknowing clients..you could tell them the house is made of gingerbread and they would believe you...you should be laible for what you say, do or write in your report.. if you can not back it up with fact.. then you are wrong..
    Did you Sale this Dog ?
    *did you install a used water tank?
    ** do you really think walking on a serviceable roof damages it ?
    *** would you buy this house?

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  44. #44
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Serious issues when someone takes up a 4 year old thread just to start a rant......

    Sorry you are so unhappy Sick! No use hiring one of us hacks to inspect the house you are going to buy, just do it yourself and save money and reduce your stress levels. I doubt you would find someone you were happy with.


  45. #45
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    [QUOTE=Billy Stephens;229062]Dear Mr/Ms Sick,

    I'm sorry you hired the low ball fly by night roofing guys that cut corners, used the Cheapest Materials and now you were found out.

    Don't fret some Idiot will hire a Drive by Inspector that will miss this mess.

    You should be concerned about all that other stuff you covered up / did not disclose.

    Homeowners can be sued too.[/QUOTE

    THINGS THAT i DIDNT DISCLOSE ??
    i DISCLOSED EVERYTHING THERE WAS TO DISCLOSE..
    If there was a problem with the roof.. then thats on the end of the roofers.. I also had a Point of Sale inspection done by the city building inspector and he even commented on how nice the roof looked..and how nice everything was.. Then this Scammer and her inspector try to low ball the Heck out of me.. This Guy thought you should just Replace EVERYTHING... Give me a flippin break... If you want a brand New 250K dollar home.. then Go BUY ONE... but dont come over to a house that is half that price and almost 100 years old and start telling the buyer everything that she needs to do to make it a Brand new home..


  46. #46
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    If there was a problem with the roof.. then thats on the end of the roofers.. I also had a Point of Sale inspection done by the city building inspector and he even commented on how nice the roof looked..and how nice everything was.. Then this Scammer and her inspector try to low ball the Heck out of me.. This Guy thought you should just Replace EVERYTHING... Give me a flippin break... If you want a brand New 250K dollar home.. then Go BUY ONE... but dont come over to a house that is half that price and almost 100 years old and start telling the buyer everything that she needs to do to make it a Brand new home..
    How is the roofer responsible for a roof you're selling? You own the roof, it's your responsibility.

    You had a point of sale inspection and they commented on how nice the roof looked? I'd really like to see that report. No inspector is going to put that in writing. It's either going to be Pass or Fail with a list of required repairs. On a similar note, how do you know the point of sale inspector didn't damage the roof. Oh, that's right, he didn't go up on the roof and only looked at it from the yard. Probably put a comment in the report stating there was a limited view of the roof due to height.

    There's most likely a comment in the report stating the report is not a buyer's inspection and is limited in its scope to local ordinance violations. Probably advises the buyer to get a buyer's inspection.

    Honestly it sounds like you're just trying to blame others for your problems and refuse to take responsibility for anything in your life. Probably not the first time you've heard that.

    Remember, you don't have to fix anything or lower your price. You can choose to refuse and let the deal die. Sell it to someone else instead of complaining about it on the internet.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
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  47. #47
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    How is the roofer responsible for a roof you're selling? You own the roof, it's your responsibility.

    You had a point of sale inspection and they commented on how nice the roof looked? I'd really like to see that report. No inspector is going to put that in writing. It's either going to be Pass or Fail with a list of required repairs. On a similar note, how do you know the point of sale inspector didn't damage the roof. Oh, that's right, he didn't go up on the roof and only looked at it from the yard. Probably put a comment in the report stating there was a limited view of the roof due to height.

    There's most likely a comment in the report stating the report is not a buyer's inspection and is limited in its scope to local ordinance violations. Probably advises the buyer to get a buyer's inspection.

    Honestly it sounds like you're just trying to blame others for your problems and refuse to take responsibility for anything in your life. Probably not the first time you've heard that.

    Remember, you don't have to fix anything or lower your price. You can choose to refuse and let the deal die. Sell it to someone else instead of complaining about it on the internet.

    I can see by your response that Speculation and Assumptions are what you are just chock full of ALL the time.. Not just on inspections..
    I didnt install the roof.. as I stated previously.. I had the roofers come back out and repair it .. and the Point of Sale inspection was completed by the city building inspector.. his comments were made to me verbally.. not in writing.. the reports only infraction was a busted sidewalk I had to repair.. so just keep right on with the speculation and assumptions... they are invalid to say the least..


  48. #48
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    LET'S NOT FEED THE TROLLS!!!


  49. #49
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    Yeah./..and they make court rooms for people such as yourself.. And YES I pulled permits for any work I have done or had done.. as if its actually any business of yours to start with.. I guess NOW your a REAL City Building Inspector instead of some overzealous wannabe with some Vistaprint business cards and a couple of online course or seminars/conventions under your belt .. Correct ?? Now..As far as Your Clients NEW roof.. It isnt their roof until it transfers.. until then .. ITS MY ROOF... and if you want to challenge that in a Court of Law, I would be More than happy to accept that challenge... I guess you can just go and tear up all over someones car that they are selling because you are looking at it for your client that MIGHT actually buy it ???? so that Give you the right to just do as YOU please, no matter what the outcome is ???? How about NO... It doesnt.. and I will challenge anybody that says they do.. as you stated you should take your own advice as you said and You should really keep your mouth shut.. Really.. you opened it and showed what a rear end you are.. Happy pills.. Really ???? lets see how happy you are when a certified letter shows up at your door next time you mess something up... Everything I stated was Fact... not Speculation which is WHAT You WILL BE SUED FOR....I have a feeling the vast majority of what was in the report was Copy and PAste... Ice Damming in the middle of June on an 85 degree day ??????? window wells for above grade windows ????? no active leaks because of no rain when it poured for nearly 3 straight days ??? Cement stucco around my foundation ??? For what ???? there is no water problems .. Replace the blown in insulation in my attic??? WHY ???? install vented soffits when they are already vented ???this guys job is to inspect the house as it is.. not tell the buyer to replace everything even if it didnt need replacing or what grounds would the inspector have to say to go to a larger water heater size ?????? From my understanding its Family size and demand.. this was a single woman.. No Kids.. how much demand could she have to require a 50 gallon tank over a 40 gallon tank ????? and NOT explaining his reasons to think so...she left thinking the watertank was undersized and she would have to get a new one...
    Or what is wrong with the stainless steel braided water heater lines for the water tank ??? this guy was full of himself and some other stuff.... I guess you feel that your actually doing a good job by giving your client a 15 page booklet full of non-sense... I feel that legislation should be brought forth to hold Bad inspectors liable for the crap they spew to their unknowing clients..you could tell them the house is made of gingerbread and they would believe you...you should be laible for what you say, do or write in your report.. if you can not back it up with fact.. then you are wrong..
    And this is all your say so. No one to stand up for himself. No worry about me feeding the trolls. With out the trolls the rest of us would not look so good. I can feed you forever.

    You are more worried about yourself looking good and the rest of the world being wrong there is absolutely no sense in even trying to communicate with you. Thank God I don't work in a world where I have to run into people like you. Turn your water faucet on and the head pops off and by the time you find out the shut off under the sink does not work and then outside your main shut of is frozen and your house is half flooded.

    All "your" homes fault (which means your fault) and you would instantly want to sue someone for your own problems. You would let the water run to get your camera and take pictures in one hand and be calling the lawyers office with the other. Yes I have known guys like your forever. Again, thank God I don't run into your kind.


  50. #50
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    I didnt install the roof.. as I stated previously..
    But, it's your roof, it belongs to you...making you responsible for it. Use your own automobile analogy; you have your car painted and the painter does a crappy job and you do nothing about it. You then go to sell the car for market value. The buyer looks at your car and brings along a professional mechanic to go over the car. They see the crappy paint job and offers you less than what your asking. Who's responsible for the price reduction, you or the painter. You accepted the job the painter did and are now trying to unload his crappy work on someone else. You own the car, it's your responsibility. It's something you should have caught as soon as the work was completed. You didn't know any better and relied on a government employee's comment about how nice the paint job looked, but wouldn't put it in writing. You didn't hire a professional to inspect the paint job when the work was done. Now your mad at the professional your buyer hired to inspect the paint job.

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    I had the roofers come back out and repair it ..
    You should be thanking the home inspector for pointing out the installation problems. You didn't know enough before the inspection to recognize a deficient installation. He pointed it out and you had the problem fixed. You should be praising him.

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    and the Point of Sale inspection was completed by the city building inspector.. his comments were made to me verbally.. not in writing..
    There's no record of his verbal comment so basically it didn't happen. City inspectors are tricky like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    the reports only infraction was a busted sidewalk I had to repair..
    You should sue the postman who delivers your mail. All of his foot traffic most assuredly damage your sidewalk.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
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  51. #51
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    But, it's your roof, it belongs to you...making you responsible for it. Use your own automobile analogy; you have your car painted and the painter does a crappy job and you do nothing about it. You then go to sell the car for market value. The buyer looks at your car and brings along a professional mechanic to go over the car. They see the crappy paint job and offers you less than what your asking. Who's responsible for the price reduction, you or the painter. You accepted the job the painter did and are now trying to unload his crappy work on someone else. You own the car, it's your responsibility. It's something you should have caught as soon as the work was completed. You didn't know any better and relied on a government employee's comment about how nice the paint job looked, but wouldn't put it in writing. You didn't hire a professional to inspect the paint job when the work was done. Now your mad at the professional your buyer hired to inspect the paint job.



    You should be thanking the home inspector for pointing out the installation problems. You didn't know enough before the inspection to recognize a deficient installation. He pointed it out and you had the problem fixed. You should be praising him.

    He didnt point it out to me.. he pointed it out to the buyer and Just Slammed the roof completely overstating the issue as if it was falling apart at any minute.. Cost the sale of the house... over some popped nails..


    There's no record of his verbal comment so basically it didn't happen. City inspectors are tricky like that.
    I did get a written report.. the only thing listed was the sidewalk.. thats IT..


    You should sue the postman who delivers your mail. All of his foot traffic most assuredly damage your sidewalk.
    If I got on your roof.. and walked on it.. and there was NO LEAKS before that time.. and AFTER I walked on it.. it started leaking.. I was the CAUSE of the leak.. My fault for pushing any issues or escalating the process of the roof failure I contributed to the failure with my actions or activity..I shouldnt have been walking on your roof.. and to put the homeowner in the position of a possible claim on their homeowners insurance over an injury ( fall off the roof) isnt right to do.. you shouldnt have the right to put me and my insurance at risk because you want to play spiderman on my roof.. I dont like that gamble..


  52. #52
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    If I got on your roof.. and walked on it.. and there was NO LEAKS before that time.. and AFTER I walked on it.. it started leaking.. I was the CAUSE of the leak.. My fault for pushing any issues or escalating the process of the roof failure I contributed to the failure with my actions or activity..I shouldnt have been walking on your roof.. and to put the homeowner in the position of a possible claim on their homeowners insurance over an injury ( fall off the roof) isnt right to do.. you shouldnt have the right to put me and my insurance at risk because you want to play spiderman on my roof.. I dont like that gamble..
    You have the right to deny an inspection, the buyer has a right to insist that their investment is inspected before purchasing. As inspectors we have an obligation to do no damage while balancing the need to perform a thorough inspection for our client. Our clients have a right to expect a thorough inspection. There are lots of overlapping rights and expectations. And if you feel that you have been harmed by the negligence of an inspector, you have the right to sue (anyone can try to sue anyone for anything) but is it worth it?
    Walking on a properly installed roof for inspection purposes will NOT damage it unless it is slate or tile.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  53. #53
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Quote Originally Posted by sick of it View Post
    If I got on your roof.. and walked on it.. and there was NO LEAKS before that time.. and AFTER I walked on it.. it started leaking.. I was the CAUSE of the leak.. My fault for pushing any issues or escalating the process of the roof failure I contributed to the failure with my actions or activity..I shouldnt have been walking on your roof.. and to put the homeowner in the position of a possible claim on their homeowners insurance over an injury ( fall off the roof) isnt right to do.. you shouldnt have the right to put me and my insurance at risk because you want to play spiderman on my roof.. I dont like that gamble..
    You're leaving out a very important aspect here. In your case, the roof had installation deficiencies. The nails were not fully set. If the roof had been properly installed there would have been no damage by walking on it. Apparently the only way to determine the roof was improperly installed was by going on it since neither you nor the city inspector observed the improper installation from the ground.

    Think of it this way. The buyer purchases the house and has no inspection and only goes by your disclosure. You disclose the roof is three months old and is does not leak. 6 months after they move in it starts to leak or is damaged by wind. Their insurance adjuster comes out and denies their claim because of the deficient installation. The new owner then sues you for the cost of their new roof. Sure, you may be able to go after the roofer, but the new owner is going to go after you because you owned the house, hired the roofer and are responsible to know the condition of the property you own, even though you are not a roofing expert. Their home inspector just saved you from a lawsuit down the road.

    Any time a person walks onto your property you're at risk for a claim on your homeowner's insurance. In fact, if a tree on your property, falls onto the neighbor's property you are liable. You are more likely to have someone slip on your icy walk or fall off your front steps than have someone fall off your roof. If the roofer you hired to replace your roof fell off your roof, there would be a claim on your homeowner's policy. You're grasping at straws on this one.

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  54. #54
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    Default Re: Possible roof damage, or inspector damage?

    Excellent information from many of the guys; did you get the feeling that you were being lied to by the seller? Their statement about being on the roof with their inspector doesn't jive. I think they were just saying that in hopes that either you would trust them and not get up there to inspect it or to make the buyer comfortable that it's been checked by "someone" and it's all good to go. Either hiding something or trying to comfort, but i don't believe for a second that they followed their inspector up onto the roof. Good luck and be safe.

    Last edited by matthew symmes; 07-21-2013 at 03:59 PM.

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