Thread: What is this notch in the roof called?

What's the name for this general construction technique, and specifically what is the name for the notch in the roof in front of the window?

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No One Knows?

No matter what other different names there are it is still a dormer. There are dormers of all types and that is one of them.

I'll take "inset" or "recessed" dormer for $600 Alex!

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

What's the name for this general construction technique, and specifically what is the name for the notch in the roof in front of the window?

Michael: Back in the day we called them dormer wells. What they are really called, who knows? Future leaks?

Are you referring to the dropped soffits ??????

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Michael: Back in the day we called them dormer wells. What they are really called, who knows? Future leaks?

Exactly.....A dormer with a well or dormer well.

You are also right about leaks. Almost all do sooner or later.

Couldn't find anything on Dormer Wells, but found these links which refer to the dormer in the photo as "recessed".

Building adaptation - Google Book Search

Barry's introduction to construction ... - Google Book Search

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

I'll take "inset" or "recessed" dormer for $600 Alex!

Buzzzzz! Not answered in the form of a question!

John?

What is a recessed dormer?

Dingdingdingdingdingding! John wins huge amount of $$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drats!

How come Alex knows all the answers? I hate know it alls!

Raymond , that's a great link ("Building adaption"), though it's by a UK publisher, and I'm not certain how localized the terminology is!

Thanks for tracking it down.

Fwiw

I did find other sites which used the term "recessed" and they were American sites.

Here is one such example.

The Different Types of Dormers

BZZZT! The judges rule "recessed dormer" as an incorrect answer.

You are given one chance to redeem yourself, display that photo again for 10 seconds and tell us why that photo is not a "recessed dormer" ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ...

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

BZZZT! The judges rule "recessed dormer" as an incorrect answer.

You are given one chance to redeem yourself, display that photo again for 10 seconds and tell us why that photo is not a "recessed dormer" ... 1 ... 2 ... 3 ...

JP: That's simple. Because the dormer itself is protruding, and not recessed at all. Besides, the original question was not regarding the type of dormer, but rather the aread just in front of the window.

And who are the judges? I am still waiting for compelling documentation and I don't see any from the judges; anyway?

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

And who are the judges? I am still waiting for compelling documentation and I don't see any from the judges; anyway?

Raymond: The judges left the building.

The probably went to an onsite inspection to see the recessed dormer for themselves!

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

JP: That's simple. Because the dormer itself is protruding, and not recessed at all.

Mr. Miller gets to buy a vowel!

Besides, the original question was not regarding the type of dormer, but rather the aread just in front of the window.

Precisely.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

I am still waiting for compelling documentation and I don't see any from the judges; anyway?

Raymond,

The "compelling documentation" you are seeking has already been posted.

a) Review the photo of the dormer in question.

b) Review the "recessed dormer" descriptions and drawings.

c) Your "compelling documentation" is the difference between a) and b).

The envelope please...

The dormer style is a gabled inset dormer (sometimes called a "well" dormer). It appears to be placed at the ridge of a hip roof. The section in front of the dormer window at and below the roof line is known as the well (hence why some refer to it as a well dormer). Usually the well is formed by the floor/ceiling joists.

I don't recall my architecture text books showing an inset dormer constructed in the manner depicted in the photos.

I believe it is called the well because it is the place where you will find water even after it has stopped raining. In such case I would advocate for an EPDM or TPO membrane to form a watertight well extending up the sides.

Reviewing the initial photo, I have to question whether this is this a sliding door or sliding window?

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Reviewing the initial photo, I have to question whether this is this a sliding door or sliding window?

Look at the reveal of the fiberglass "siding" and compare with the size of the AC unit and you should be able to estimate the size of the window (and see that it is clearly not a door). And that's before looking at the second photo...

Thanks, I was sure it was a window too. If its a window and horizontal floor out from the window. If it was a sliding door I could see using the terminology "well", but there is no well per se?

Have been searching and all I am turning up are the terms inset and recessed, can't find anything on Well Dormers fwiw.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

If it was a sliding door I could see using the terminology "well", but there is no well per se?

Raymond,

Trying to figure out why it makes a difference as to that being a window or a door to describe that as a "well" in front of it?

Sometimes the simple answers are the most correct:

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Future leaks?

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

What's the name for this general construction technique, and specifically what is the name for the notch in the roof in front of the window?

I would call this general construction technique "conventional framing". As in it consists of rafters, ceiling joists, and knee walls rather than trusses...

...but maybe that's just me.

"Well" Jerry if that's the best you can do I am disappointed!

Yes, it may well be a dormer with a well, but it is an Inset Dormer, as Corn Walker pointed out.

From Mr. Wand's link:
Also called recessed dormers, inset dormers, unlike other dormers, are set back into the roof, which gives them a distinctive architectural style.

Unfortunately, the question was not "what type of dormer?" it was "what is the area in front called?" I think most will agree the area in front of that inset dormer is called a well. OK, Ray?

1) It's a window, visible beyond the chair.

2) The well had a metal pan flashing.

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

1) It's a window, visible beyond the chair.

2) The well had a metal pan flashing.

Michael: Guaranteed future leaks. No matter how assiduously the craftsmen may build such oddities, every time you change directions and materials in a roof plane you are asking for trouble.

Even when the initial installation is flawless (like - almost never) it will need to be reworked at some point. Usually by someone both less skilled and less attentive to detail.

As Mr. Corn Walker noted earlier, it is the place you will usually find water standing after it rains. Well?

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

Michael: Guaranteed future leaks...

(Others have also made similar comments)

One of the reasons I wanted to report that dormer as accurately as possible is precisely because that looks to me like the sort of situation where the first hard wind driven rain is going to start my phone ringing with complaints about leakage - there is not only the question of the well, but for example the fact that in the situation were vertical surface like those dormer walls are continuously shingled down to the roof there is no way to inspect flashings, or even to determine what flashing if any is present.

As it stands I was a bit surprised that well was not already leaking, however a shown in the second photograph in the first post I had good access from underneath, and the area was dry - I attribute that to the fact that the pan flashing is running up the sides of the well and under shingles. In that respect it's a very nice job, however as you note when that's repaired or replaced it's likely to be by "someone both less skilled and less attentive to detail." - in fact I like that wording so much that I've lifted it for use in report boilerplate.

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

1) It's a window, visible beyond the chair.

2) The well had a metal pan flashing.

That is flat soldered seam ... THAT takes skill and patience.

You are correct, though, the 'next man in' is not likely going to have that skill or that patience, so it will likely be flashing around the edges with modified laid down on it ... and we KNOW that is going to leak.