Roof valley / corner

william siegel · 06-25-2009, 03:44 PM

Came across this today and am a little confused. The roof slants at the west front corner. The carport had to be notched to fit. Nothing from the attic looks bad. It is solid when you stand on it. Outside of the fact that the valley is improperly installed and there were probably no permits pulled for this roof, how would you write up this corner of the roof and what would you recommend. Thanks in advance.

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**Jim Luttrall** · 06-25-2009, 04:03 PM

"The improperly constructed roof structure is sagging. Hire a competent carpenter to rebuild with proper supports."

That said, it looks like that entire front gable is sagging with no supports over the front porch. But then I can't tell much from the photos.

**Rick Cantrell** · 06-25-2009, 04:25 PM

Looks as though it should have post supporting the canted gable.

**Jerry Peck** · 06-25-2009, 05:55 PM

As stated by other above, the overhanging front has dropped down and is sagging, taking the rake board of the main roof with it.

I would recommend a structural engineer design appropriate repairs, then inspect those repairs during and after the repairs, issuing a final engineers letter which states that the repairs were made in accordance with the approved engineering design.

And, yes, of course, permits and inspections ... not that it matters in Miami-Dade anyway, but ...

**John Kogel** · 06-25-2009, 06:12 PM

If an engineer charges 3-5 times what builder would charge per hour, it would be better to have it torn back to the wing part and rebuilt. They'd get a better roof. JMO

**Jerry Peck** · 06-25-2009, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by John Kogel

If an engineer charges 3-5 times what builder would charge per hour, it would be better to have it torn back to the wing part and rebuilt. They'd get a better roof. JMO

John,

It does not matter what the difference in price is or would be, what matters is that A STRUCTURAL ENGINEER needs to sign and seal those engineering drawings ... PERIOD.

As a Florida General Contractor *I* could go down there an rebuild it ... to the ENGINEERING that the engineer signed and sealed.

That is part of hurricane country (Miami-Dade and Broward county where Bill is - I used to be down there too), you don't just do those things without having engineering to back you up.

**John Kogel** · 06-25-2009, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

That is part of hurricane country (Miami-Dade and Broward county where Bill is - I used to be down there too), you don't just do those things without having engineering to back you up.

Well someone went ahead and built that.

Maybe instead of a post, the engineer would calll for chain downspouts.

**Jerry Peck** · 06-25-2009, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by John Kogel

Well someone went ahead and built that.

Yep, but probably back in the 50s or maybe 60s, not with modern South Florida codes.

Things started changing after the 1926 hurricane which left a lot of damage on Miami Beach (which was completely underwater ( http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/mfl/e...ayshore_dr.jpg ). Not a lot left standing on Miami Beach ( http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/mfl/e...ami_beach2.jpg ), kind of like Galveston after Hurricane Katrina. This ( http://www.srh.noaa.gov/images/mfl/e...amage_1926.jpg ) was inland in Miami, across Miami Beach, across Biscayne Bay, and into Miami.

In South Florida they learned they needed to tie things down, so the first hurricane straps were perforated plumber strap - NOT KIDDING. You can still find homes from the 1930s with those plumbers straps for rafter tie down straps.

william siegel · 06-26-2009, 03:55 AM

Thanks for the input.

Jerry,

I have been using that wording ever since I first learned it from you about seven years ago.

Bill

**Allen Lott** · 06-26-2009, 05:53 AM

Jerry,

It was Hurricane IKE that wiped out parts of Galveston. Not that it matters to the Thread, just wanted to clarify.

**Jerry Peck** · 06-26-2009, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by Allen Lott

Jerry,

It was Hurricane IKE that wiped out parts of Galveston. Not that it matters to the Thread, just wanted to clarify.

Allen,

Right!

I thought Katrina was wrong when I was typing that, but I just couldn't think of 'the other name' - Ike it was.

Thanks.

Mark Schniers · 06-26-2009, 07:26 AM

It appears the top chord was left unsupported and is now sagging. I would not think structural integrity was compromised. If the tail remains unsupported, at some point, it may become a nightmare.

william siegel · 06-26-2009, 09:59 AM

Mark,

In a roundabout way we are all saying the same thing. It is wrong and needs to be repaired. Here in Florida with the high velocity wind zone, the repair will need to be done and certified by a structrural engineer. Can it be done in another manner. Probably. But I am not willling to assume that liability when the next hurricane blows through.

Jerry. FYI - the home was built in the early 70's.

Bill