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  1. #131
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Not to further this discussion but I have (not lately) in the past seen instructions for high wind areas. One point is from where I use to live in Neptune Beach Florida.

    The inspector (city) pointed out high wind on the stipulations for the shingles. The info I received at that time was the starter course on the rakes.

    In the north east I saw on several occasions where starter shingles (or roll) on the rakes were used and I read the specs back then as well.

    No I am not digging it up from the past but I have seen it and the specs from manufacturers in the past and requirements for high wind protection asked for in the past.

    That was good enough for me and I have never been presented with such as not being allowed or cancelling the warranty.

    Just a past observation.

    F.I.R.E. Services

  2. #132
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Jerry

    You seem to be chaning your parameters. I showed you one site with schematics for rake starter course, you challenged that and brought in the warranty issue, now we have another piece of evdence Hatteras and now you want more proof?

    Just how did you word that email you said would be infallible so as to get the answer you needed?

    Jerry you are too funny!


  3. #133
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Jerry

    You seem to be chaning your parameters. I showed you one site with schematics for rake starter course, you challenged that and brought in the warranty issue, now we have another piece of evdence Hatteras and now you want more proof?
    Raymond,

    Again, it comes down to reading ...

    The link you provided did not include anything about that IN THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTION FOR THE SHINGLES.

    The link Brandon provided DID include that in the drawing IN THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE SHINGLES.

    It is all in reading and understanding what is written and not jumping to conclusions which you think will support your case, and then actually reading the information and finding out otherwise.

    I really do not know how else to say it ... it is in reading what is written, in these posts and in the installation instructions.

    I have not changed my position at all, Brandon provided an SHINGLE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTION which actually showed those in the drawing ... but did not mention them in the written directions.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #134

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Brandon, write back and thank them and ask about their other shingles, and say 'Oh, by the way, can you send me a revised installation instruction when that is incorporated into the text and identified? Thank you.
    I just flipped off an e- mail to them. We'll see what they say this time. You all should know better than to expect a perfect answer from a technical rep. I so often receive wishy washy answers, that I end up frustrated.

    I have not changed my position at all, Brandon provided an SHINGLE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTION which actually showed those in the drawing ... but did not mention them in the written directions.
    How much ya wanna bet that they say their drawings are part of their installation instructions, and leave it at that?


  5. #135
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    So far ... no one has been defeated.

    Once the information is in, no one will still be defeated, and ALL of us will learn something.

    What is not yet known.
    JP: That is what I've been talking about since the beginning of this thread. Seems that you are the only one with enough sense to get it. Well, and Mike Moser is not far off course himself - no pun intended.


  6. #136

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    OK Jerry,

    I asked exactly what you wanted me to, and here's the reply...

    We donít address it in the other shingles because it is not necessary. We know itís done all the time, but itís up to the contractorís preference whether or not starters are used on the rakes.
    At least Certainteed replied to the original question, unlike others.


  7. #137
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Brandon,

    At least you have received two replies in the same time I have received none from GAF (probably because they are looking for someone to answer my questions ).

    If I do not get a reply tomorrow I will send the e-mail again and remind them I had already asked the question and not received a reply (I have to do that occasionally with manufacturers, then they reply).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #138
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    You would think with all of the loud-mouth Republican hacks that have taken a swing at this thread at least ONE would have come up with some written proof of their claims. Go figure!


  9. #139
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Any we thought a loud mouth know it all from Texas acting as a annoying cheerleader would have come up with compelling documentation to back up his annoying superior opinionated attitude!


  10. #140
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Any we thought a loud mouth know it all from Texas acting as a annoying cheerleader would have come up with compelling documentation to back up his annoying superior opinionated attitude!
    RW: If you mean by "opinionated" that I have an opinion and can support it in an argument with another person, then yes, I am just that. Superior? Perhaps. That all depends on your definition of the term and the context in which it is employed. "Cheerleader"? I think not.

    I am still waiting for a rational reply to my original inquiry, which I very much doubt is forthcoming.


  11. #141
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Don't hold your breath, its very clear you and JP are not going to accept anything and even if you do you will find fault with it. All I have heard from you is that everyone is wrong but you and Jerry, but even Jerry is more compelling than you, even though he has not provided much of anything either.


  12. #142
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    A>D is a great example of the term Leftie Lucie (AD) righty is right (us)

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  13. #143
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schulz View Post
    A>D is a great example of the term Leftie Lucie (AD) righty is right (us)
    MS: That, of course, is an ignorant man's reference to the term "lefty loosey" which is the opposite of "righty tighty". This is a comibination of simplistic terms for morons who cannot remember how to operate complicated equipment like water faucets, nuts and bolts, or English grammar.


  14. #144
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Don't hold your breath, its very clear you and JP are not going to accept anything and even if you do you will find fault with it. All I have heard from you is that everyone is wrong but you and Jerry, but even Jerry is more compelling than you, even though he has not provided much of anything either.
    RW: I cannot and will not speak for JP - he is quite capable of defending himself. But as for me, what I accept or do not accept is immaterial. It is what I learn from the supposedly forthcoming information that interest me.


  15. #145
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    That, of course, is an ignorant man's reference to the term "lefty loosey" which is the opposite of "righty tighty".
    I am glad you pointed out "which is the opposite of" I would of never figured that out because i'm ignant and lack edumacation.

    You have beaten this horse to death let her go man! move on and enjoy life as only you know it.........

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  16. #146
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    move on and enjoy life as only you know it.........
    MS: Unfortunately, this is more fun that what is currently going on in my life.


  17. #147
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    This brings to mind an old saying
    Arguing with an __xyz__ , is like wrestling with a pig; you both get muddy but after a while, you realize the pig likes it.
    This may have to be added to Aaron's and Jerry's signature lines!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  18. #148
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    This brings to mind an old saying


    This may have to be added to Aaron's and Jerry's signature lines!
    JL: That saying, the "xyz" being supplanted by "inspector" proudly adorns my office wall.


  19. #149
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    JL: That saying, the "xyz" being supplanted by "inspector" proudly adorns my office wall.
    I used to have that:

    Arguing with an inspector is like wrestling a pig in the mud: you never accomplish anything and after awhile you realize the pig likes it.

    I got that from Jeff Hooper, who had it in his office.

    (Yes, I forgot the exact wording of how it went, but the above is close enough. )

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  20. #150
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Jerry

    Did you get an answer yet? Can you share with us how you phrased the question?


  21. #151
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Jerry

    Did you get an answer yet? Can you share with us how you phrased the question?
    Have not received anything back as yet, so I re-sent the e-mail with an update on top.

    I sent this question in on Monday and have not received any contact for more information or any information regarding what I was inquiring about.

    Would you have someone follow up on it?

    Thank you,

    Jerry Peck

    Jerry Peck
    Codeman
    codeman@AskCodeMan.com
    www.AskCodeMan.com

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~

    From: Jerry Peck [mailto:codeman@AskCodeMan.com]
    Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:00 PM
    To: 'TechnicalQuestions@gaf.com'
    Subject: WeatherBlocker Premium Eave/Rake Starter Strip

    I am having a discussion with others regarding the installation instructions for your composition shingles, an example would be the Application Instructions for the Royal Sovereign Shingles from your web site, and the installation and use your rake starter strips as the shingle installation instructions do not show an allowed option for the installation and use of those rake starter strips.

    The codes require that the composition shingles be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions, which is the way they were tested, listed, and labeled, and doing so does not allow for (there is no optional provision for) the installation of the rake starter strips.

    Until the shingle installation instructions include and allow for an option to use the rake starter strips, the use of the rake starter strips makes the shingles not installed in accordance with their installation instructions … regardless of any installation instructions which may accompany the rake starter strips.

    Do you have an updated installation instructions for the composition shingles which shows/allows for the option to install the rake starter strips which you can provide to me? Those updated installation instructions showing the rake starter strips would answer the questions regarding the installation of the composition shingles being in conformance to their installation instructions.

    I am aware that installation instructions are printed on every package of shingles and that changes in installation instructions take time to make it from engineering and technical support to the printing of the bundle wrappers, thus any updated and current installation instructions showing the rake starter strip option should be sufficient to show that the installation of the rake starter strips are in fact allowed by the shingle installation instructions. Also, those updated installation instruction should be the ones shown on your web site as the current manufacturer’s installation instructions as your web site is the place for the latest manufacturer’s information.

    Have the shingles been tested, listed and labeled with the use of the rake starter strips?

    Any and all information you can provide on this would be appreciated.

    Thank you,

    Jerry Peck

    Jerry Peck
    Codeman
    codeman@AskCodeMan.com
    www.AskCodeMan.com

    Last edited by Jerry Peck; 08-12-2009 at 03:35 PM.
    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  22. #152
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Thanks Jerry!


  23. #153
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    AD Manny will put you in your place Louisiana Gun

    Mike Schulz License 393
    Affordable Home Inspections
    www.houseinspections.com

  24. #154
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Jerry
    The way you say it, they might think there going to get a certified letter from Dewey Cheatum & Howe.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  25. #155
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    Jerry
    The way you say it, they might think there going to get a certified letter from Dewey Cheatum & Howe.
    Or that if they produce the requested information they will not receive that letter.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  26. #156
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Schulz View Post
    AD Manny will put you in your place Louisiana Gun
    MS: "Where, whe, whe, whe, uh, uh red-blooded, god-fearing, Jesus-loving, Americans are gonna stand up and say we're not gonna take it no' mo'. We just not gonna take it."

    So then, this is your spokesman? GTF outta here!


  27. #157
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Well.... we certainly got this questioned settled. Looks like its not much of an issue at all.


  28. #158
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Well.... we certainly got this questioned settled. Looks like its not much of an issue at all.
    RW: Nothing is settled here. I am still patiently awaiting an answer to my original query.


  29. #159
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Ya so much for your original question, what was it anyway?


  30. #160
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Ya so much for your original question, what was it anyway?
    RW: Think: attention span.


  31. #161
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Can't find your original question, what was the meat of it?


  32. #162
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    Can't find your original question, what was the meat of it?
    RW: It was a vegan interrogatory.


  33. #163
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    Default Re: Starter Course for Asphalt Roofs

    Oh I love it when you use big words.... very impressive, but still waiting for definitive proof.


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