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Thread: Roof leak help

  1. #1
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    Default Roof leak help

    Today's roof. Am looking for opinions. Per the seller the roof was installed in 2003.
    Picture #1 shows a repair to the right of the valley. If you look closely you will see the staggering of the tiles and the color variation.

    Picture #2 is the same thing but from the front eave. You can see the repair. Notice that the valleys come to a Y shape. The bottom part of the Y is flat. I am wondering if shingle should be here, or this should be modified. Picture #3 gives you a different angle of the same thing and you can see the repair to the left. Picture #4 is from the top of the Y looking down. Pic #5 is just another angle.

    The last picture is a view of the front of the home

    Notice that they did not finish the right side valley. This roof is leaking. Underneath the flat area (bottom of the Y) is the front porch, and the entire length of the porch decking is wet (it was actually dripping). We do not know which side of the valley is leaking, although i assume that it is the right side, as there are stains in the attic and this is the side that was repaired.

    I have obviously already called for repairs. My question is this. The flat part of this roof is about 15 feet long and the valley is about 12 feet in length. With the amount they would need to repair, the cost will probably amount to about 40 percent of the cost to replace the roof and cover over 25 percent of the area of this roof. My feeling is that the entire roof should be replaced and done properly rather than attempt this repair. There area other leaks that were repaired at the same time these repairs were done. Mainly just looking for opinions. Thanks.

    FYI - they also have two other flat roofs that are fairly new which are leaking at the flashings. These repairs were done with roofing tar and still leaking, but that is another story altogether.

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    Bill Siegel
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Looks like a design issue here. Asphalt shingles in that configuration allow way too much opportunity for water to seep underneath. I'd like to see how those valleys are flashed.

    From what you described, it sounds like flashing areas are not this roofers strong suit. The best bet in the areas where you have two different roof sections coming together may be a rubber roof. Asphalt shingles just allow too much potential for leaks in that configuration. Some areas of the roof may be salvageable but it looks like a good chunk of that roof will need to be redone from scratch.


  3. #3
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
    chris mcintyre Guest

    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Defiantly a poor design. The roof looks almost to flat for shingles, and there is no way to get the water out from between where the two eaves meet .

    As low as the pitch is it wouldn't take much framing two combine the two roofs into one.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Ostrowski View Post
    Looks like a design issue here.

    AND installation issues.

    I agree: much of the roof will probably need to be removed for replacement, which will likely be enough to kick in the requirement to re-nail the roof sheathing, which means the entire roof may need to be removed and replaced.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Jerry,

    Roof should already be properly nailed. There are permits for this roof in 2003. Wilma obviously came along and did some damage. My guess would be no insurance and Uncle Harry knew how to repair a roof. The guy swore to me that the only leak he knew of was at the flat roof - nothing in this area. Just curious the wording a lot of you would use other than the standard repair / replace by a licensed roofer, although leaving it simple might be better.

    Bill Siegel
    Florida Home Inspection Team Inc.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Shingles are incompatible with the design of the roof. They should never be used with a pitch of less than 2/12. 3/12 should have ice and water shield under the shingles.

    Last edited by Ken Rowe; 12-16-2009 at 07:42 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Rowe View Post
    Shingles are incompatible with the design of the roof. They should never be used with a pitch of less than 2/12.

    I may be missing it in the photo, but I do not see shingles on a flat or low slope area.

    Looks like the shingles come down from both sides - reasonably sloped, maybe 3/12 or 4/12 (probably 3/12) and meet at the center valley, which then - likely has - some type of single ply or other roofing installed down the center of the valley (I can't tell from the photos).

    If there are shingles turned perpendicular across that flat valley area, yeah, that is dead wrong, and is likely why it is leaking. Otherwise, it is leaking from something else, also probably done wrong.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Jerry,

    It is tough to see. Look at the last picture. You can see where the two hips come together. That area, is in actuality, flat. That area is more like a cricket, not a valley. It looks like instead of fixing the problem the first time, Mr Flipper just shingled over what was already there.

    Bill Siegel
    Florida Home Inspection Team Inc.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Bill,

    Looked like something was showing through between from under the shingles, but once I zoomed in on it I can see it is just a "dry" lighter area of the shingles there - look at the lighter area at the bottom of the '12' to see what I was looking at.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    To overcome the design flaws, I would expect to see the valley done in torch-on (modified bitumen) about a foot exposed up each side, more if it's snow country.

    In pic 5, if you drew a line down from each of the vents to the place where the new shingles start, you can see shingles lapped through the valley and running up the other side. That is wrong and will leak. Should have been fixed with the patch.
    The new shingles are cut in the valley, should be back from the valley a couple of inches, and they are not stuck down tight along the bottom of the patch, either.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I may be missing it in the photo, but I do not see shingles on a flat or low slope area.

    Looks like the shingles come down from both sides - reasonably sloped, maybe 3/12 or 4/12 (probably 3/12) and meet at the center valley, which then - likely has - some type of single ply or other roofing installed down the center of the valley (I can't tell from the photos).

    If there are shingles turned perpendicular across that flat valley area, yeah, that is dead wrong, and is likely why it is leaking. Otherwise, it is leaking from something else, also probably done wrong.
    Actually, there's so much wrong with this it's probably best to do a complete tear off.




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  12. #12
    James Kiser's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    Would make sure to use ice and water shield over whole area when replacing roof


  13. #13
    Larry Ames's Avatar
    Larry Ames Guest

    Default Re: Roof leak help

    I love this forum. I trade under Ames Mechanical Services, Chesapeake, VA. I am not a roofer nor carpenter. I see a roof that forms a ditch. Three inclined areas jointly feeding into a far lesser inclined area. Having lived in St. Petersburg, FL during the late 70's and constantly visiting the GA Coast and can easily invision water levels 4 to 9 inches high in the shallow valley during the types of thunder storms in that part of the country. There must have been flashing the ran 12 to 18 inches up the shallow valley during the original build. Thanks for the opportunity to put my 2 cents in.


  14. #14
    Frank Suchodolski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Roof leak help

    [quote=Nick Ostrowski;112883]

    From what you described, it sounds like flashing areas are not this roofers strong suit.quote]


    Looks to me that roofing wasn't this roofers strong suit! Looks like a low slope application, most shingle manufacturers will allow shingle application to 2/12 with either Ice & water underlay or some even allow a doube layer of #15 felt (Ice & water is advisable), but I'm pretty sure that none of the manufacturers allow shingle application in a dead flat valley! The dead valley detail should be as John Kogel mentioned, torch-on or EPDM (rubber) or other flat approved membrane properly installed 24" up all three sides. It should also be sloped to drain off the edge and shingles should stop 12" from the valley bottom to improve drainage.

    Frank Suchodolski, RRO


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