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Thread: Shiners?

  1. #1
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    Default Shiners?

    On another message board, there is a discussion regarding wind mitigation inspections. One of the posters states that he "takes pictures of shiners" and sends them to the insurance company.

    It was always my understanding, that these "shiners" were not permitted to exist as, they do not meet the manufacturers requirements for roof deck nailing.
    As I pointed out, it doesn't say "nail the roof decking into thin air", it does say the decking will be nailed in to the framing members.

    I would be curious to hear how other inspectors address the issue of "shiners".

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Well, as it relates to the OIR 1802, it simple shows the nailing pattern used when attaching the sheathing. The Wind Mitigation form wants to know the pattern (6/6, 6/12, 12/12, etc) and the visible shiners can help determine that pattern.

    Dom.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino View Post
    Well, as it relates to the OIR 1802, it simple shows the nailing pattern used when attaching the sheathing. The Wind Mitigation form wants to know the pattern (6/6, 6/12, 12/12, etc) and the visible shiners can help determine that pattern.

    Dom.
    That wasn't what I was asking Dom.
    As a home inspector, how would each of us handle the situation pictured above?


    As it pertains to the WM, if you were to issue a report with the pictures above, wouldn't you be admitting that you saw something that is wrong? Couldn't that lead to problems for you as an inspector later on?
    And, what if you didn't mention them or take pictures? Then what?

    And by "you" I don't mean you specifically Dom!

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Because some of them missed doesn't mean that they didn't nail into the truss chord right beside it after the misses. You can tell when you're shooting decking whether you hit the nailer or not. You'll need to push on the decking to see if it is tight.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Robinson View Post
    Because some of them missed doesn't mean that they didn't nail into the truss chord right beside it after the misses. You can tell when you're shooting decking whether you hit the nailer or not. You'll need to push on the decking to see if it is tight.
    That didn't answer the question either.

    Apparently, you cannot tell when you miss the framing as that particular roof in the pictures had over 2,000 nails that were exposed. The owner of the home is a somewhat eccentric individual and actually counted them.
    Because some of them missed doesn't mean that they didn't nail into the truss chord right beside it after the misses.
    It simply defies logic that someone would not know that they missed and then would nail next to the nail they didn't know that they missed or, that they knew they missed and then nailed next to it without pulling the nail that missed out. At least to me anyway!

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    You report what you see.
    It appears that nails have missed the rafter on installation of the roof sheathing.
    Plywood was firm against the rafter when tested indicating it was re nailed properly, OR plywood lifted slightly when pushed against indicating it was not renailed properly.

    This would be considered improper nailing techniques but is a common occurrence when illegal aliens, oops i mean , inexperienced persons, handle nail guns.

    Recommend consulting with owner for name of roofing contractor and any transferable warranties that may be in affect.

    Did you push up on the sheathing in the area to see if it moved at all?
    A small flat bar in my tool bag would be used to test this type of defect.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Wayne pretty much covered it. I would report that multiple nails were observed that missed the nailer. The roof deck was/was not loose at various locations. Contact a qualified, etc.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    You report what you see.
    It appears that nails have missed the rafter on installation of the roof sheathing.
    Plywood was firm against the rafter when tested indicating it was re nailed properly, OR plywood lifted slightly when pushed against indicating it was not renailed properly.

    This would be considered improper nailing techniques but is a common occurrence when illegal aliens, oops i mean , inexperienced persons, handle nail guns.

    Recommend consulting with owner for name of roofing contractor and any transferable warranties that may be in affect.

    Did you push up on the sheathing in the area to see if it moved at all?
    A small flat bar in my tool bag would be used to test this type of defect.
    Yes, I did push up on them and the decking was not flush with the truss.

    I think that saying the deck was tight next to the nails still doesn't make the installation correct. Also, did you check every area where you saw nails.............................even areas you couldn't get to?

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Van De Ven View Post
    That wasn't what I was asking Dom.
    As a home inspector, how would each of us handle the situation pictured above?
    Like most things we find, it depends on the circumstance. If its just a few, a casual mention. If its rampant and excessive, well, you get the idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Van De Ven
    As it pertains to the WM, if you were to issue a report with the pictures above, wouldn't you be admitting that you saw something that is wrong? Couldn't that lead to problems for you as an inspector later on?
    And, what if you didn't mention them or take pictures? Then what?

    And by "you" I don't mean you specifically Dom!
    Great questions, but if it ain't on the form, then so be it. You can't answer a question they didn't ask.
    And no, I'm not filling out the form anymore.

    Dom.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    I think that saying the deck was tight next to the nails still doesn't make the installation correct. Also, did you check every area where you saw nails.............................even areas you couldn't get to?

    BINGO!! nailing pattern is wrong, please have broker sign a guarantee that the roof will not blow off in the next ten years


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Shiners?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    I think that saying the deck was tight next to the nails still doesn't make the installation correct. Also, did you check every area where you saw nails.............................even areas you couldn't get to?

    BINGO!! nailing pattern is wrong, please have broker sign a guarantee that the roof will not blow off in the next ten years

    Maybe the Broker can sign an agreement that the home inspector won't be sued when the roof fails................sometime between June and November of each year

    I wonder what would happen? Down here, we tend to get these real nasty rain and wind storms starting in late May and ending sometime around November.

    Eric Van De Ven Magnum Inspections Inc. (772) 214-9929
    www.magnuminspections.com
    I still get paid to be suspicious when I got nothing to be suspicious about!

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