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Thread: starter course

  1. #1
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    Default starter course

    Can anyone please give me their opinion in regards to the starter course for shingle installation. Please see photo, does this look adequate?

    thanks in advance
    Steve

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: starter course

    That is how it is often done. As long as the end seams are staggered so they never line up with the end seam of the second course. I see an adhesive strip, so they have cut the first row.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
    www.allsafehome.ca

  3. #3
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    Default Re: starter course

    Its better than this one.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: starter course

    That's a common installation for 3 tab starters around here, but that doesn't make it right. The first course shingles are supposed to be sealed down into place, just like the rest of the shingles above.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: starter course

    Since many starter strips do not have seal strips, I'm not sure how they can be "sealed" like the rest. Many times roofers will turn the starter shingle backwards to have a 3' strip on the bottom. There is also a starter strip material made that does not have seal tabs either.


  6. #6
    Bill Perkins's Avatar
    Bill Perkins Guest

    Default Re: starter course

    I have seen shingles for the starte course many times but usually turned around so the tabs are pointing towards the roof peak. I guess as long as none of the tabs line up with the first course of shingles it will work.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: starter course

    I was taught to turn them around as well.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  8. #8
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    Default Re: starter course

    I have an example of a starter row of shingles

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  9. #9

    Default Re: starter course

    I have an example of a starter row of shingles
    That's how I've always read that it is supposed to be done. Can anyone post a shingle manufacturers installation instructions that doesn't specify that the first course needs to be sealed down?


  10. #10
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    Default Re: starter course

    Steve,
    What exactly are you questioning?
    Were the rest of the starter strips 3 ft in length and uncut?


  11. #11
    Kevin Yandel's Avatar
    Kevin Yandel Guest

    Default Re: starter course

    http://secure.owenscorning.net/porta...b_Install2.pdf

    Check out this link. I have also flipped my 3 tab starter course, now possibly thinking it could resuld in warranty being voided for not following mfg specs.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: starter course

    If you are using typical self sealing asphalt shingle, the first row should be sealed down just like the rest of the roof. The placement of the sealant strip on the shingle can vary according to the region and manufacture, so follow the manufacturer's instructions.
    This is something I call out on 95% of cheap 3 tab roofs and 30-40% of laminate shingles. I think it may be that everyone THINKS they know how to install the cheap one but tend to have read the directions on the newer styles.
    If the tabs don't self seal, then manual sealing is required, read the directions.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  13. #13
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    Default Re: starter course

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    If you are using typical self sealing asphalt shingle, the first row should be sealed down just like the rest of the roof. The placement of the sealant strip on the shingle can vary according to the region and manufacture, so follow the manufacturer's instructions.
    This is something I call out on 95% of cheap 3 tab roofs and 30-40% of laminate shingles. I think it may be that everyone THINKS they know how to install the cheap one but tend to have read the directions on the newer styles.
    If the tabs don't self seal, then manual sealing is required, read the directions.
    I agree, the bottom course needs to be sealed also. Cutting the tabs off on 3&1's will give you the seal strip for the starter course. Some of the dimensional shinlges have the seal strip on the bottom of the shingle being laid.

    Randy Gordon, construction
    Michigan Building Inspector/Plan Reviewer

  14. #14
    chet hamman's Avatar
    chet hamman Guest

    Default Re: starter course

    as for your question felt paper is put down then a starter roll of roll roofing
    same color as roofing is applyed or the first course is shingle but turned
    upside down aka starter strip then shingles are applied with drip edge down
    some roofers use frost barrier at edges instead of felt meets code but personally i dont like it hope this helps this is in indiana your local code may differ but all roofing must have a drip edge


  15. #15
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    Default Re: starter course

    Guys
    It is incorrect to turn the shingle around.
    That is not how to do the starter row.
    Read the link Kevin Yandel provided.
    http://secure.owenscorning.net/porta...b_Install2.pdf

    Just because you been doing it that way for 20 years does not mean it's right.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  16. #16
    Frank Suchodolski's Avatar
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    Default Re: starter course

    If you install a 3-tab shingle upside down as a starter course, you have to manually seal the next course to it. doing this will not void the manufacturers warranty...in fact you could install ALL the shingles and still not void the manufacturers warranty! The manufacturers warranty only covers material defects. There are Installation warranties available, but they cost money and the roof must be installed by a Manufacturers Approved installer.

    Frank Suchodolski, TQ, RRO


  17. #17
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    Default Re: starter course

    This thread is a great example of why things are always so "fubared" in our industry.... something as simple as a starter course of shingles can't even be spelled out clearly. And I'm not pointing any fingers of calling out anyone on this thread.... it's just funny, that's all.

    I can only hope things are more clear in the med school manuals the doctors read before cutting us open


  18. #18
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    Default Re: starter course

    Frank
    Are you saying that it is acceptable to turn the shingle around (tabs pointing to the ridge) for the starter coarse as long as you manually seal the next course of shingles to the starter course?

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  19. #19
    Frank Suchodolski's Avatar
    Frank Suchodolski Guest

    Default Re: starter course

    It is an acceptable practice, as it does the same job as any other starter, 3-tab shingles only. It will not void a shingle warranty as I mentioned, it doesn't void installation warranties either. With Laminated Fiberglass shingles however the laminated section must be cut off, the sealant is on the underside of the first course so sealing is not required.

    I just re-read my earlier post Upside down should have been inserted,

    "in fact you could install ALL the shingles upsidedown and still not void the manufacturers warranty! "


  20. #20
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: starter course

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Fellman View Post
    This thread is a great example of why things are always so "fubared" in our industry.... something as simple as a starter course of shingles can't even be spelled out clearly. And I'm not pointing any fingers of calling out anyone on this thread.... it's just funny, that's all.

    I can only hope things are more clear in the med school manuals the doctors read before cutting us open
    I was thinking along those lines as well but that is a good one.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: starter course

    Frank
    You said "It is an acceptable practice".
    Who is it acceptable to?
    According to Owens Corning, not them.

    From Owens Corning instructions (bold added)

    Shingle Application
    Starter Course
    (A)
    Trim tabs off all starter course shingles so sealant can seal along the eave’s edge.



    Fror Owens Corning Warranty (bold added)

    What Is Not Covered
    Our warranty does not cover damage to the shingles due to any cause not expressly covered herein. After our shingles leave our manufacturing facility, they are subjected to conditions and handling beyond our control that could affect their performance. This warranty does not cover any problems with nondefective shingles caused by conditions or handling beyond our control. Some examples of conditions not covered by this warranty include:
    1
    2
    3
    4. Improper or faulty installation of your shingles—installation must be in accordance with our written installation instructions and comply with local building codes.


    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  22. #22
    Frank Suchodolski's Avatar
    Frank Suchodolski Guest

    Default Re: starter course

    You just confirmed everything I mentioned...They don't care that the tabs are on, just that the shingles seal! If you take the time to seal them it is acceptable...but it is quicker and less messy to cut them off!

    "Improper or faulty installation of your shingles—installation must be in accordance with our written installation instructions and comply with local building codes."

    Another way of saying "We don't warranty installation, only manufacturers defects." They usually want a roofer certified by them, third party inspection
    and there is usually a cost involved. If the roof leaks then because of an Installation error, then it is covered by warranty.

    I've dealt with lots of Shingle manufacturers, and what it comes down to is, unless they are putting an "Installation Warranty" in place, (some have it Certainteed, GAF, IKO , I don't know about Owens) they only cover Shingle defects.


  23. #23
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    Default Re: starter course

    Frank
    I understand what you are saying.
    But look at the photo in the OP.
    Is that acceptable?
    No. they are not sealed down.
    That is what the OP was asking about, and what this thread is about.

    Will it work if the shingles are turned around, as long as they are sealed?
    Likely, yes.
    But even then, it is not how the manufacture shows it should be done.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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