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  1. #1
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    Default Nail heads showing

    Hey guys, got a quick one for you. I called out a newer roof ( 5 years or so) that had nail heads showing on the last course of the ridge cap. Also, called out the fact that the vent stack flashing and the roof vents are missing the nails in the bottom. Am I being too picky here. I am getting lots of crap from the roofer who installed. Only my 4th inspection and want to make sure I am not in the wrong before I fight too much. Thanks.

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  2. #2
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Welcome to the club kid... Your OK. Its just that no one wants you around OK The buyer likes you...

    If you put something in your report its good to have a photo.

    Best

    Ron


  3. #3
    James Duffin's Avatar
    James Duffin Guest

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Smith View Post
    Hey guys, got a quick one for you. I called out a newer roof ( 5 years or so) that had nail heads showing on the last course of the ridge cap. Also, called out the fact that the vent stack flashing and the roof vents are missing the nails in the bottom. Am I being too picky here. I am getting lots of crap from the roofer who installed. Only my 4th inspection and want to make sure I am not in the wrong before I fight too much. Thanks.
    If you think it's a problem put it in your report. Just tell the roofer to put in writing there is no problem and you have done your job. No need to fight with the roofer.


  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Thanks guys, I needed to hear that. I did put good pictures and good reasoning of why this is a problem. Just wanted to hear it from some that have the experience.

    E.D.S
    Home Inspections
    Lic.#450.010534

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    ...nail heads showing on the last course of the ridge cap.
    Not sure what you mean by "last course of ridge cap".
    Do you mean the last shingle on ridge cap?
    If it is only the last shingle, then, not right, but not too bad.


    Also, called out the fact that the vent stack flashing and the roof vents are missing the nails in the bottom
    If I understand what you are describing;
    there should not be nails in the bottom of flashing.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Hi Eric,

    Whenever possible, document (or snap a pic of) the vent/ flashing manufacturers info. so you can go home and look up the installation instructions. Are you positive that nails are required in the flashing at those locations, and that nails can't be exposed at one ridge cap? If not, you can end up looking foolish when you document something, only to be proven wrong.

    This from Air- Vent: http://www.airvent.com/pdf/installat...er-install.pdf The link for roof louvers (square ridge area vents) indicates the need for a total of 8 nails. If there are pre- punched nail holes, then nails are likely required at those locations.

    Have the roofer provide you with the shingle/ ridge cap manufacturers info. so you can determine what is allowed. It's common to have a couple of nails be exposed at some point on the ridge. Some shingle manufacturers specify the need for exposed nails to be sealed/ caulked.


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Michigan
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Smith View Post
    Hey guys, got a quick one for you. I called out a newer roof ( 5 years or so) that had nail heads showing on the last course of the ridge cap. Also, called out the fact that the vent stack flashing and the roof vents are missing the nails in the bottom. Am I being too picky here. I am getting lots of crap from the roofer who installed. Only my 4th inspection and want to make sure I am not in the wrong before I fight too much. Thanks.
    If you are talking about the last cap shingle on a shingle over ridge vent, than the last cap needs to be held on somehow. I always see and alway did have 2 exposed nails on the ridge. If someone else has a better suggestion I love to hear it.
    On the vent flashing, It should be nail higher, under the shingle as not to expose nails. My opinion, take it for what it's worth...

    Randy Gordon, construction
    Michigan Building Inspector/Plan Reviewer

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Columbus GA
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    I always see and alway did have 2 exposed nails on the ridge. If someone else has a better suggestion I love to hear it.

    Use mastic only on the last tab
    or
    Use 1 1/2" (2"+ with ridge vent) roof nails, sealed with mastic.

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    Maryland
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Cantrell View Post
    I always see and alway did have 2 exposed nails on the ridge. If someone else has a better suggestion I love to hear it.

    Use mastic only on the last tab
    or
    Use 1 1/2" (2"+ with ridge vent) roof nails, sealed with mastic.
    Use mastic only and wait for it to harden up before you let go??
    May work with hot shingle. But I and others have always put 2 nail in with mastic on them.
    If you rely on mastic you are looking for a call back when it comes off.

    The bottom of flashing on the vents will not need nails if done right. Depends on how shingle courses end up at the cap. Exposed nail will be a source of future leak potential.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    The bottom of flashing on the vents will not need nails if done right.
    The only problem is that if something goes wrong, we could be blamed for not calling it out if the manufacturers spec's call for nails at those locations (see my link in my above post).

    During my inspection, I just ensure the vents are secure and don't care whether there are nails at the exposed area. With plastic vents, I can see how nails will help prevent curling of the bottom corners. So I guess there could be problems either way---- leaks due to curling of the flashing (wind driven rain), or leaks due to nail holes in the exposed flashing.


  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Four nails with mastic over the nail head. Just like any exposed nails on the roof vents.

    MinnesotaHomeInspectors.com
    Minnesota Home Inspectors LLC
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Washington State
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    For what it's worth, I agree with Brandon. On many occasions I have come across curled flanges on the hooded roof vents because they were not nailed / screwed down. Just did an inspection yesterday where there was a water stain on the bathroom ceiling. It was due to wind-driven rain going under a puckered plumbing vent boot and dripping off the sheathing right next to the vent pipe, leaving a dime sized depression in the attic insulation . As for exposed nail heads, roofing staples and / or bolt heads - no shiners - cover them with tar, mastic, silicone - whatever. IMO, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    The only problem is that if something goes wrong, we could be blamed for not calling it out if the manufacturers spec's call for nails at those locations (see my link in my above post).

    During my inspection, I just ensure the vents are secure and don't care whether there are nails at the exposed area. With plastic vents, I can see how nails will help prevent curling of the bottom corners. So I guess there could be problems either way---- leaks due to curling of the flashing (wind driven rain), or leaks due to nail holes in the exposed flashing.
    To answer your question:

    I call out any nail heads that aren't covered in mastic, tar, silicone. I'm not personally picky whether vent flashings are nailed or not unless they're turned up and will allow rain driven under them or the shingles don't cover them properly. If they have nails, then put mastic on them.

    I do suggest that you read various installation instructions regarding the vent flashings and then you'll know what is generally required. Do this for several items in the home.

    Now regarding your sentence, "The only problem is that if something goes wrong, we could be blamed for not calling it out if the manufacturers spec's call for nails at those location" You cannot be expected to know every mfr's spec for every item in the home. I would not worry about being blamed.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Most curling problems come with the black plastic boots. Instead of nailing the bottom of the roof boot and using mastic to cover the nail heads, why not mastic the roof boot to the roof and not use any nails. It does work...

    Randy Gordon, construction
    Michigan Building Inspector/Plan Reviewer

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Illinois
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    Smile Re: Nail heads showing

    Thanks JB that makes sense to me. Appreciate all the help guys. this forum is the best!!!!

    E.D.S
    Home Inspections
    Lic.#450.010534

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Door Guy View Post
    Most curling problems come with the black plastic boots. Instead of nailing the bottom of the roof boot and using mastic to cover the nail heads, why not mastic the roof boot to the roof and not use any nails. It does work...

    Why not do both?

    I call out all exposed nail heads where the nail passes through a shingle (regardless of its application) as needing to be sealed with something.

    Just me mayhap... :-)

    We know why you fly: because the bus is too expensive and the railroad has a dress code...
    www.atozinspector.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Gault View Post
    Why not do both?

    I call out all exposed nail heads where the nail passes through a shingle (regardless of its application) as needing to be sealed with something.

    Just me mayhap... :-)
    Hi Mike, the mastic would hold the flange down on its own and keep it from curling or from rain or snow getting under it. If it does that why would you need the nails.

    Randy Gordon, construction
    Michigan Building Inspector/Plan Reviewer

  18. #18
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    Mar 2007
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Smith View Post
    Am I being too picky here. I am getting lots of crap from the roofer who installed.
    Picky? Yes. Correct? Yes. Depending upon my mood, I'll comment on the exposed nail heads at the ridge. The roofer skipped a minor step, you're just pointing it out, as you're suppose to. Most contractors will back down when you acknowledge such conditions are pretty minor and in actuality may not cause any significant problem.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Tyler, TX
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    719

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Picky? Yes. Correct? Yes. Depending upon my mood, I'll comment on the exposed nail heads at the ridge. The roofer skipped a minor step, you're just pointing it out, as you're suppose to. Most contractors will back down when you acknowledge such conditions are pretty minor and in actuality may not cause any significant problem.
    I agree. We have to present things relative to their overall seriousness.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Picky? Yes. Correct? Yes. Depending upon my mood, I'll comment on the exposed nail heads at the ridge. The roofer skipped a minor step, you're just pointing it out, as you're suppose to. Most contractors will back down when you acknowledge such conditions are pretty minor and in actuality may not cause any significant problem.
    I agree too, picky is what the customer is paying for. They get to decide what slides and what doesn't...

    Randy Gordon, construction
    Michigan Building Inspector/Plan Reviewer

  21. #21

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Now regarding your sentence, "The only problem is that if something goes wrong, we could be blamed for not calling it out if the manufacturers spec's call for nails at those location" You cannot be expected to know every mfr's spec for every item in the home. I would not worry about being blamed.
    Hi JB,

    I doubt that this would ever get this far, but...............

    Let's say a leak does occur, and it isn't caught for a couple of years. A contractor gets called in to locate the source of a leak/ water damage. Mike the contractor may be the type to say "Gee, your idiot home inspector should have caught this one. It's obvious from looking at that vent that those exposed holes were intended to be filled with fasteners. Had the fasteners been installed, the vents would not have curled, and this would have never happened"

    Then a bunch of guys are brought in to fix things:

    1)Mold remediation contractor
    2)Roofer to replace rotted sheathing and re- install shingles in the area.
    3)Drywall contractor to replace any affected drywall.
    4)Painting contractor.
    5)Etc.

    During this time, the homeowner discovers his insurance has lapsed, so the insurance company won't cover repairs. He thinks "by golly, I'm taking that inspector to small claims court, and I'm gonna make him pay".

    I've got quite the imagination at times , but can see this happening to an extremely unlucky inspector.

    I'll stick to not calling them out unless they are curled, or if they are loose. If I recommend the roofer add nails, he'll probably go up there with a nail gun and place the nails within the "DO NOT NAIL" zone on the vents, which will just cause more problems.


  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Tyler, TX
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    719

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    .... at that vent that those exposed holes were intended to be filled with fasteners. Had the fasteners been installed, the vents would not have curled, and this would have never happened"
    We don't have roof jacks with pre-drilled holes in them. I have seen some cheap plastic ones on occasion. If they have holes in them, then obviously they should be nailed.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

  23. #23

    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    We don't have roof jacks with pre-drilled holes in them. I have seen some cheap plastic ones on occasion. If they have holes in them, then obviously they should be nailed.
    Ahh, no wonder.
    About half of the vents I see are the cheap plastic ones with pre- formed holes in them. The funny thing is that 90 percent of the time, the roofer installs nails outside of the holes, which causes tiny stress fractures that often show up years later.

    Pictures from todays inspection:

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  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Tyler, TX
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    Default Re: Nail heads showing

    Quote Originally Posted by Brandon Whitmore View Post
    Ahh, no wonder.
    About half of the vents I see are the cheap plastic ones with pre- formed holes in them. The funny thing is that 90 percent of the time, the roofer installs nails outside of the holes, which causes tiny stress fractures that often show up years later.

    Pictures from todays inspection:
    Now we do have plastic roof vent opening with holes, I thought we were talking about roof jacks, lead in particular, curling up etc... My bad.

    I've never seen plastic roof vents curl up.

    Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
    www.TylerHomeInspector.com
    Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area

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