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  1. #1
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    Default Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Found today...

    CCSF insulated beneath (no apparent leaking from the TIR32)

    I'm thinking poorly finished but just cosmetic - Thoughts??

    -Mike

    p.s. What I mean by Cosmetic - Not pretty but the covering is 'satisfactory' in that it is Functioning as intended and unlikely to worsen or leak if it remains as is.

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    Last edited by Mike Gault; 11-25-2011 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Explain ' cosmetic' :-)
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Look at the field above that area - it is wrinkled too.

    There is something going on with that roof, or the structure supporting that roof, which is allowed the roof to move, which is causing the metal panels to wrinkle like that.

    That is definitely NOT cosmetic.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Looks like they attached the panels ridgedly at the peak of the lower ridge instead of with clips to allow for expansion like the rest of the roof. I think the rest of the roof might be stressed by that fixed point. I not sure how much damage it would cause, but your right that the installation is wrong.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    Looks like they attached the panels ridgedly at the peak of the lower ridge instead of with clips
    Jim,

    I'm not following you - those panels are all rigidly anchored in place with anchor screws through the tops of the ribs/crimps, there are no clips on those panels, not like on standing seam panels.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    The only metal roofing I've worked with is corrugated steel; this looks a lot more flexible. I think all that wrinkling is because of the flashing needed there, plus it could be a tricky corner for whatever reason. The angle of the sun is throwing lots of shadow. The waviness elsewhere could be due to the expansion of the metal in the sun. At any rate, to me it looks adequately flashed, and like it's a cosmetic problem.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    That looks like a 5 V-crimp metal panel roof, and that stuff is just not that easy to wrinkle (I've inspected a fair number of metal roofs and not one single one was "wrinkled" like that one in the photo), that stuff just not "wrinkle" like that. You can bend it (on a sheet metal brake or by hand), but that is not bent.

    Those 5 V-crimp metal roof panels are pretty strong, and, yes, they can definitely be installed wrong, but not like that shown, and that is a lot more than "expansion" too. That roof has to be moving, or at least it moved since that roof was installed. Whether or not it is still moving, that I can't say.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Mike

    I am thinking along the same lines as Jerry. It looks like some structural movement of the framework underneath. Do you have any more pictures?

    Randy Mayo, P.E.
    Residential Engineering & Inspection Services
    http://www.rlmengineers.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    If the really wrinkly part were a product of movement, I would expect to see the valley wrinkly, too. As for the wavy bit, it wouldn't take much movement at all to make that happen - not enough that (it seems to me, anyway) make it a cause for concern. If the light were different you wouldn't even notice the waves.

    Do not think of knocking out another person's brains because he differs in opinion from you. It would be as rational to knock yourself on the head because you differ from yourself ten years ago.
    - James Burgh, 1754.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristi Silber View Post
    If the really wrinkly part were a product of movement, I would expect to see the valley wrinkly, too.
    Not necessarily, not if the movement was in the left roof, the movement under the valley may be minimal.

    As for the wavy bit, it wouldn't take much movement at all to make that happen - not enough that (it seems to me, anyway) make it a cause for concern. If the light were different you wouldn't even notice the waves.
    Actually, it does take a bit of movement to wrinkle those roofing panels like that.

    The roofing panels are laid flat and not wrinkled, however, if the roof surface is not flat, the panels may bend. The waves are similar to the "oil canning" which happens to those panels after high wind events (hurricanes ), except that those waves are diagonal, which indicates movement.

    A roof which moves enough to cause the metal roofing panels to wrinkle needs to have a structural engineer design appropriate repairs (which, of course, they can only do after they evaluate the structure, so there is no need to call for 'further evaluation', just 'have structural engineer design appropriate repairs' - the home inspector has already made the "evaluation").

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    The screws have been applied right where the creases are. In my opinion this does not appear to be a framing issue but rather a bad installation, screws to tight. Also the ridge cap where it meets the valley doesn't look right either (poor detail flashing).


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Ray is correct on this, it is an installation issue.
    It looks like the lower right side has a small triangular shaped filler panel.
    It would appear that is was incorrectly cut, rather than cut a new filler, the installers just shoved that panel to the preceding panel that is above the ridge. When they got it to fit they just screwed the lower section down .
    Again, the ridge and valley flashing is sloppy.
    Typically this is an installation that you would find on a barn, not a residence.
    With the expansion and contraction of a metal roof, it has a tendency to back out the screw type fasteners.
    Even though the the screws have a rubber gasket, there is always the potential for leaks.
    On a correctly installed standing seam roof it would not be unusual to find some warping "tin canning"


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    My my take is that the screws on the flat part of the metal is causing it to buckle as a result of heat expansion. Similar to putting a nail in flat metal trim work (fascia). You have to not restrict the metal from expanding and contracting or you will get buckles and wavers in the surface.

    It is an installation issue. Metal has to have the ability to expand and contract just like vinyl siding.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Mayo View Post
    Mike

    I am thinking along the same lines as Jerry. It looks like some structural movement of the framework underneath. Do you have any more pictures?
    The other pics I have are from farther away. Got this from a second floor access. Did not walk the roof. This was the only noted 'wrinkled' area.

    Called out for a 'licensed roofing contractor proficient in the installation of metal roofing'.

    'Just don't look right' sounded silly :-)

    We know why you fly: because the bus is too expensive and the railroad has a dress code...
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    My take is that the panel was damaged before it was installed. And the job is sloppy (at least in that corner).

    Steven Turetsky, UID #16000002314
    homeinspectionsnewyork.com
    eifsinspectionsnewyork.com

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Jim,

    I'm not following you - those panels are all rigidly anchored in place with anchor screws through the tops of the ribs/crimps, there are no clips on those panels, not like on standing seam panels.
    Your right Jerry, after seeing it on a bigger screen it is obviously not a standing seam. Something has moved, either the framing or maybe it was installed on an extremely hot or cold day and expansion did the rest. More information is needed.

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Wrinkling in a metal roof - thoughts

    It looks to me like the material was pushed to the left, causing the wrinkles in the cut section. Maybe the roof was out of square, and instead of trimming the rake edge the installer tried to push it over.

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

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