Thread: Alligatoring of comp roof

Was wondering what might cause this composition shingle that was installed in 1998 to alligator like this....any thoughts?

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15 years in the sun?

Yup! 15 years in the sun will do that!

Low quality shingles.

That's a 3 year old shingle in Florida.

Originally Posted by Dom D'Agostino

That's a 3 year old shingle in Florida.

Yep!

Must be more alligators in Florida!

There are several probabilities. Cheap shingle. Felt underlayment. And now for the real cause improper or inadequate attic ventilation. The secondary cause could be use of a shingle not suited for the climate.
The combination of excessive heat, due to bad ventilation, and moisture being absorbed by the shingle causes this.

Originally Posted by Ron Bishop

Was wondering what might cause this composition shingle that was installed in 1998 to alligator like this....any thoughts?

Not sayin' they're PABCO Shingles, but there was a lot of "crap" manufactured in the 90's.

Check this link:
PABCO HO-25/HZ-25 Roof Shingle Class Action Settlement Website

I think Jim Hintz has this correct

Originally Posted by Charles Buell

I think Jim Hintz has this correct

Thanks Charles.

Have they had their roof cleaned with sodium hydroxide?
Notice the silica is missing where you see teh cracking. Probably where someone was standing for a while on the roof.

If it is as it appears to be a 25 yr. fiberglass shingle the overspray area is known to crack as shown and not an issue. We have those here very commonly and years ago I called them out until I met a Cornings Rep at site who said it was normal and does not affect the warranty, they crack in the first 5 years and I have seen them 15 years old not looking too much worse. The local roofers also say it is not an issue unless it cracks in the area not over sprayed, then it is an issue.

The correct answer was the first from Aaron...........15 years in the sun. Those are 20 year or at the most 25 year shingles. That doesn't mean they look great for 25 years and then have to be replaced. C'mon guys, all of you should know that aging is a process and progression. It doesn't just happen one day. If you are in a sunny clime and have seen a hundred roofs, you have seen this. On south facing roofs with poor ventilation, this look can appear in 3-5 years.

PABCO shingles at 15 years, are falling apart, so it seems unlikely that these are those.

Originally Posted by Lon Henderson

The correct answer was the first from Aaron...........15 years in the sun. Those are 20 year or at the most 25 year shingles. That doesn't mean they look great for 25 years and then have to be replaced. C'mon guys, all of you should know that aging is a process and progression. It doesn't just happen one day. If you are in a sunny clime and have seen a hundred roofs, you have seen this. On south facing roofs with poor ventilation, this look can appear in 3-5 years.

PABCO shingles at 15 years, are falling apart, so it seems unlikely that these are those.

I love it when someone replies with the definitive answer when it is obviously wrong.. as I have also been guilty of the same, makes me feel like the crowd! I have yet to hear of a multi layered shingle with a 20 year warranty and doubt you have either..looking back and paying more attention since it was 3 a.m. when I last looked at it and now I see the multi-layer (30 year Architectural minimum) and not just the standard what I called earlier for simplicity "overspray" (25 yr. warranty) which gives somewhat the appearance of an Architectural shingle.. you cannot look at a shingle and say the warranty without knowing what you are looking at and there are traditional 3 tab shingles with 25 year warranties that look identical to the 20 year and unless you know the thickness to determine the difference you cannot say, just as there are Architectural shingles with 50 year warranties. The cracking as seen CAN occur the very first year and IS NOT usually an issue unless it begins to crack in the main body of the tab.. even at 15 years it is OF NO CONCERN if not cracking in the main body of the tab. I don't say this is the most in depth answer to the question and there is much to add but can assure you Lon the answer you gave was not from factual information and can confuse those asking to increase there knowledge. Don't get offended as it is not an offensive attempt just one more to the point of the question.

Originally Posted by kenny martin

I love it when someone replies with the definitive answer when it is obviously wrong.. as I have also been guilty of the same, makes me feel like the crowd! I have yet to hear of a multi layered shingle with a 20 year warranty and doubt you have either..looking back and paying more attention since it was 3 a.m. when I last looked at it and now I see the multi-layer (30 year Architectural minimum) and not just the standard what I called earlier for simplicity "overspray" (25 yr. warranty) which gives somewhat the appearance of an Architectural shingle.. you cannot look at a shingle and say the warranty without knowing what you are looking at and there are traditional 3 tab shingles with 25 year warranties that look identical to the 20 year and unless you know the thickness to determine the difference you cannot say, just as there are Architectural shingles with 50 year warranties. The cracking as seen CAN occur the very first year and IS NOT usually an issue unless it begins to crack in the main body of the tab.. even at 15 years it is OF NO CONCERN if not cracking in the main body of the tab. I don't say this is the most in depth answer to the question and there is much to add but can assure you Lon the answer you gave was not from factual information and can confuse those asking to increase there knowledge. Don't get offended as it is not an offensive attempt just one more to the point of the question.

I'll sit semi-corrected. On second look, I agree that it looks like a dimensional shingle. It doesn't appear to be a 50 year shingle, as those generally have a different appearance. I never said that the shingle was shot, but to clarify, the cracking is age appropriate for 15 years, if on the sunny side of the roof. However, I will strongly disagree that if this kind of cracking appears in the first year, then it is definitely an indication of a problem and that problem is usually inadequate attic ventilation. And Kenny, it's ok to reply with a definite answer, even when your wrong, as long as you recognize it when corrected.

I'm thinking a meth lab after that news show Friday night!

The shingles in the photo are 4 year old Certain Teed shingles. The owner of the home worked for Certain Teed. It turns out the shingles were seconds from the factory.

Raymond, is that also hail damage seen?? There is also a defect in shingles from dirty rollers in the factory I'm told by one rep. that looks very similar to what the photo shows. Has anyone else heard of this?

Kenny,

It very well could be hail damage as we do have an occasional localized hail in this region.
Can't comment on the dirty rollers, but anything is possible. Could also be the first run through the machine or improper application of asphalt, granules...

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

The shingles in the photo are 4 year old Certain Teed shingles. The owner of the home worked for Certain Teed. It turns out the shingles were seconds from the factory.

But he got a screaming deal on those shingles.......

Two years ago I put CertainTeed IR shingles on my roof and so far, so good.

I say manufacturing defect.

The client just wants to know one thing - will it leak?

One picture of one shingle doesn't say much to me. Surface cracks on the decorative part of one shingle. Raymond's picture tells me he found a defect.

Hard to tell from a photo, but it looks like two nail pops in Raymond's photo, indicating more problems than defective materials.

Originally Posted by Aaron Miller

15 years in the sun?

I concur.

Lon,

Those are not nail pops but blisters.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Lon,

Those are not nail pops but blisters.

I don't think I've seen shingles form blisters. That seems like a major defect.
Every time I have examined things that look like that, I find an underlying nail pop. Maybe blistering is caused by different environmental conditions than we have here.

Lon for your delectation...

BLISTERING OF ASPHALT SHINGLES
CASMA - Blistering of Asphalt Shingles

Also
Asphalt Roofing Technical Bulletins
CASMA - Asphalt Roofing Technical Bulletins

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Lon for your delectation...

BLISTERING OF ASPHALT SHINGLES
CASMA - Blistering of Asphalt Shingles

Also
Asphalt Roofing Technical Bulletins
CASMA - Asphalt Roofing Technical Bulletins

Interesting......
I see a lot of "peppering" on three tab composition shingles, but those are BB size granule voids, not blisters. I never see them causing failure in the shingles. I have come to the belief that peppering is from over heating. It appears that on some roofs or maybe with some brands, the shingles get hot enough to release a few granules here and there on the shingle. It's never visible from the ground.

And I get my new word of the day......"delectation".

More photos of the same shingles. Remember these are seconds from the factory.