Thread: Loss of granules

Hi all!

I did a roof inspection today on a 5 year old roof. The client is a friend of mine and was concerned with the amount of granules that he found in the gutters. He told me that the gutters have never been cleaned in the entire 5 year period. When I looked in the gutters there was anywhere from .25" to .75" of granules in the gutters. The roof is a 50 yr. roof. There were a few (maybe three or four) shingles that had slightly worn bottom edges. One shingle had a tear and one shingle had a hole in it but overall the roof appeared to be in decent shape. My question is, what would be a normal amount of granule loss for a 50 yr roof over a five yr. span? See the attached photos. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Hi George,

I suspect what your are finding would be from some of the previous roofs on this 50 year old home.

Billy,

Thanks for the reply. My apologies, I should have been more clear with my wording. The roof is five yrs. old with a 50 yr. warranty. The house is 5 yrs. old as well.

I don't think there is an excess of granules in that trough. They tend to shed loose granules when first put on and that should now taper off.

I bet the hole is a bullet hole! What goes up must come down!

I would say that is fairly normal granular loss. I would also let the person know that although he may have 50 year shingles that if he can get half of that projected life he will be doing good. The life span of shingles as stated by the manufacturer are under perfect laboratory conditions with a perfect installation, not south Mississippi conditions!

I was thinking the same thing. 50 year warranty - pro-rated for materials only, I'm sure. I actually haven't heard of a 50 year warranty on a shingle roof, but that doesn't mean someone isn't marketing one. Heck, I think they only warranty metal roofs for 20 years. Granule run off looks pretty normal to me as well.

Originally Posted by Jim Robinson

Heck, I think they only warranty metal roofs for 20 years.

I've seen some metal roof manufacturers who provided a 70 year warranty on the roof panels, prorated and materials only, of course.

They may have shortened their warranty to 50 years since*I last checked a number of years ago.

Their catch was that the fasteners and neoprene washers were to be replaced every 10 years, an they specified that the fasteners be replaced with fasteners one size larger at each replacement.

Fasteners started out as being size #14 (1/4"), next size up is 5/16", then 3/8", 7/16", 1/2" fasteners - that is only at 40 years. Now go out another 30 years and another 3 sizes larger ...who would do that?

Technical Bulletin #18 Excess Roofing Granules on Shingles ? Canadian Asphalt Shingle Manufacturers' Association

During the roofing manufacturing process, roofing granules are applied into the hot top coating asphalt. An excessive amount of granules is used to provide total and complete coverage of the asphalt. The asphalt must be covered to ensure protection from solar ultraviolet radiation.

The granules are "pressed" or embedded into the asphalt coating while it is still hot. Some of the excess granules may not be firmly embedded but are only loosely held in place on the roofing sheet. The roofing machine is designed to reclaim the excess "hitchhiker" granules and reuse them. However, some of the "hitchhiker" granules are packaged with the shingles in the finished bundle.

During the first two years of shingle exposure on the roof, the "hitchhiker" granules will come off the shingles and may be found in the gutters or at the bottom of downspouts. Loss of these excess "hitchhiker" granules is completely normal and in no way results in a reduction of the weatherproofing life of the shingles. Granule loss only becomes a concern for shingle performance when bare spots of coating asphalt are exposed on the surface of the shingles.

Originally Posted by Jim Abram

Good job as usual Billy

Well Thank You!

Your granule loss (1/4" to 3/4") is excessive there is a problem!

Below is my comment and with 90% of my wind mitigation inspection in Tampa bay area, I find some one was tiring to save buck by not adding the proper venting system. Two big key indicators I hear from my clients is after new roof with insufficient ventilation system. The client is complaining about HVAC problems and high utility bills.

I fail 4 point inspection every day and 99% of them have insufficient ventilation also the roof are only 14 to 18 years old but look like there 30+ years old. As I tell my clients place a roast in the oven on low, come back 3 days later and what you see in the oven is what you see on your roof. Ideal temp in the attic is below 120 degree "F" here in Tampa Bay area. Sorry my R&D is kicking in.

High loss of granules and or shorter roof covering life is most time related to insufficient Ventilation, by the most recent roof covering installation. Recommend verifying "ventilation" of min 1' per 150' air exchange and max 1' per 300'. Recommend a licensed qualified roofing contractor repair and replace as needed.

P.S.The proper ventilation will reduce granule lose and promote life expectancy of roof covering also reduce utility bills!!!!!!!!

Unless one knows how large the roof area is (how small it is) or how many granules are expected to come off each square foot of shingles or if the gutters have been cleaned or not or how steep the roof slope is (how flat the roof is) ... how can one deem that the granule loss is excessive with such conviction?

Please clarify your 1/150 and 1/300 numbers by stating what they represent - I know what they should represent and would like to clearly understand what they mean to you.

I want to thank everyone for their comments and input. My opinion of the amount of granule loss falls in line with the general consensus, for the most part. The home does not have a ventilation issue as suggested by the distinguished gentlemen from the Hillsborough Co. area, as it meets standard ventilation requirements. Although that is a very good point and one which I had considered, the house had a continuous ridge vent with the required amount of soffit venting.

Excessive granular loss has been more prevalent in this area lately, due to this years unique weather conditions. I was speaking with a roofing contractor, who explained to me that when it rains the roof becomes saturated, then if the temp drops below freezing while the roof is still saturated, as it did on a few occasions this year, that the expansion of the ice around the granules may cause them to become dislodged. This sounds like a plausible explanation. What do y'all think about this premiss?

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Technical Bulletin #18 Excess Roofing Granules on Shingles ? Canadian Asphalt Shingle Manufacturers' Association

During the roofing manufacturing process, roofing granules are applied into the hot top coating asphalt. An excessive amount of granules is used to provide total and complete coverage of the asphalt. The asphalt must be covered to ensure protection from solar ultraviolet radiation.

The granules are "pressed" or embedded into the asphalt coating while it is still hot. Some of the excess granules may not be firmly embedded but are only loosely held in place on the roofing sheet. The roofing machine is designed to reclaim the excess "hitchhiker" granules and reuse them. However, some of the "hitchhiker" granules are packaged with the shingles in the finished bundle.

During the first two years of shingle exposure on the roof, the "hitchhiker" granules will come off the shingles and may be found in the gutters or at the bottom of downspouts. Loss of these excess "hitchhiker" granules is completely normal and in no way results in a reduction of the weatherproofing life of the shingles. Granule loss only becomes a concern for shingle performance when bare spots of coating asphalt are exposed on the surface of the shingles.

This is great info.... I've always suspected this was the case. I always take special care walking on brand new roofs due to the loose granules. What I see in those gutters is about what I'd expect for a rather large roof like that.

Originally Posted by George Hallaron

Excessive granular loss has been more prevalent in this area lately, due to this years unique weather conditions. I was speaking with a roofing contractor, who explained to me that when it rains the roof becomes saturated, then if the temp drops below freezing while the roof is still saturated, as it did on a few occasions this year, that the expansion of the ice around the granules may cause them to become dislodged. This sounds like a plausible explanation. What do y'all think about this premiss?

Around here, snow melt resulting in a wet roof and then refreezing at night is routine. This probably does release some additional granules, but since this happens in much of the US, I don't think that this is anything unusual.

I sometimes find up to half an inch of granule buildup in gutters. Other than recommending cleaning the gutters, a buildup of granules in the gutters doesn't raise an alarm with me. I still judge the condition of the shingles based on the actual shingles and recommend the same for other inspectors. A lot of granules can come off of the huge surface of a roof, accumulate in the gutters and leave the shingles in acceptable condition.

Something I see here a lot is a "peppered" appearance to the shingles. After some discussions with roofers, adjusters and my own experience, this seems to be mostly from overheating of the shingles and resulting release of granules. This is not a manufacturing defect and takes years to show. Last summer, I was on a roof with a roofer that had this condition. He declared hail damage. I countered that it wasn't hail damage. He shrugged his shoulders and said that it didn't matter because he could convince every adjuster that it was.

JA wrote

Anyone who puts any trust in a manufacturer's association press release should not be in the inspection business . These are just PR . I find the last sentence in the press release amusing .

If you say so. God knows I wouldn't want to contradict you.

Originally Posted by George Hallaron

Hi all!

I did a roof inspection today on a 5 year old roof. The client is a friend of mine and was concerned with the amount of granules that he found in the gutters. He told me that the gutters have never been cleaned in the entire 5 year period. When I looked in the gutters there was anywhere from .25" to .75" of granules in the gutters. The roof is a 50 yr. roof. There were a few (maybe three or four) shingles that had slightly worn bottom edges. One shingle had a tear and one shingle had a hole in it but overall the roof appeared to be in decent shape. My question is, what would be a normal amount of granule loss for a 50 yr roof over a five yr. span? See the attached photos. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

I had a roof put on a few years ago. The shingles are thick and have a lifetime warranty. I believe that a year or so after they were installed I had about the same about of granules in the gutters. The shingles seem fine. I suspect that they are sometimes over-sprayed with granules that are not bonded well. I think that once they fall off then there should be little loss after that.

Info on granule loss.
IKO | Roofing 101, Residential Roofing FAQ, Roof Shingles Guide

Different manufactures concur about 'hitch hiker' granule loss.

Other causes - or combination of -
1. Wind scouring
2. Hail/sleet
3. Snow
4. Ice
5. Extreme temperature spread day in and day out
6. Rain
7. UV
8. Deficient ventilation

Also
Causes & effects of the loss of protective mineral granules from asphalt roof shingles or roll roofing

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

JA wrote



If you say so. God knows I wouldn't want to contradict you.

LOL :-)

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

JA wrote

Originally Posted by Jim Abram

Anyone who puts any trust in a manufacturer's association press release should not be in the inspection business . These are just PR . I find the last sentence in the press release amusing .

If you say so. God knows I wouldn't want to contradict you.

Raymond,

I have not yet learned to not contradict JA and his replies (which typically make as much sense as the one above) and suffer through post after post of his replies.

Jerry

Division of Professional Licensure: License Search

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Jerry

Division of Professional Licensure: License Search

Maybe "Put to much trust in a manufacturer's association press release.....

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Jerry

Division of Professional Licensure: License Search

But He seems like such a Nice Man.

Suspension License is suspended. Suspension is a disciplinary status that does not allow the licensee to practice.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Jerry

Division of Professional Licensure: License Search

Raymond,

All those words spewing from him - I wonder if he knows what "Suspension" means?

That may be why he suddenly showed up here showing us all his lack of knowledge?

Raymond, gotta hand it to you - that is just way too cool! Thanks, we think we all needed that.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Jerry

Division of Professional Licensure: License Search

As licensing is considered here, I've generally been against it, but there are positives.

Jerry,

I suppose this is the reason he didn't want to provide any info about himself.

Originally Posted by Jim Robinson

I was thinking the same thing. 50 year warranty - pro-rated for materials only, I'm sure. I actually haven't heard of a 50 year warranty on a shingle roof, but that doesn't mean someone isn't marketing one. Heck, I think they only warranty metal roofs for 20 years. Granule run off looks pretty normal to me as well.

I think shingle warranties have always been more about marketing than actual shingle life. Although in my area (Mid-Atlantic) I have seen a handfull or more or relatively thin shingles that have lasted about 25 years (and a few even more years) that still looked decent.

My shingles came with a lifetime warranty, which transfers to a new owner as a 50 year warranty. I paid extra for that just as a selling point. I figured if I live in the house for quite a while I wanted the warranty in case some home inspector says "asphalt shingles last 20 years so these are near the end of their life".

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Jerry,

I suppose this is the reason he didn't want to provide any info about himself.

Could be ...

This entertainment break was brought to you by the State of MA ... the commercial is over and it is time to return to the regularly scheduled ...

Originally Posted by George Hallaron

Hi all!

I did a roof inspection today on a 5 year old roof. The client is a friend of mine and was concerned with the amount of granules that he found in the gutters. He told me that the gutters have never been cleaned in the entire 5 year period. When I looked in the gutters there was anywhere from .25" to .75" of granules in the gutters. The roof is a 50 yr. roof. There were a few (maybe three or four) shingles that had slightly worn bottom edges. One shingle had a tear and one shingle had a hole in it but overall the roof appeared to be in decent shape. My question is, what would be a normal amount of granule loss for a 50 yr roof over a five yr. span? See the attached photos. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

I have a strong background in roofing (50 years) and am certified by several major manufacturers. In my opinion, the problem is inadequate attic ventilation which causes the shingle to dry out and lose elasticity and the adhesive strength of the asphalt You included one picture which may be the holes created when the oil in the asphalt boils, forming bubbles, which then explode. This is a direct result of excessive attic temperature turning the deck into a frying pan.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by George Hallaron

Hi all!

I did a roof inspection today on a 5 year old roof. The client is a friend of mine and was concerned with the amount of granules that he found in the gutters. He told me that the gutters have never been cleaned in the entire 5 year period. When I looked in the gutters there was anywhere from .25" to .75" of granules in the gutters. The roof is a 50 yr. roof. There were a few (maybe three or four) shingles that had slightly worn bottom edges. One shingle had a tear and one shingle had a hole in it but overall the roof appeared to be in decent shape. My question is, what would be a normal amount of granule loss for a 50 yr roof over a five yr. span? See the attached photos. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

I have a strong background in roofing (50 years) and am certified by several major manufacturers. In my opinion, the problem is inadequate attic ventilation which causes the shingle to dry out and lose elasticity and the adhesive strength of the asphalt You included one picture which may be the holes created when the oil in the asphalt boils, forming bubbles, which then explode. This is a direct result of excessive attic temperature turning the deck into a frying pan.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by George Hallaron

Hi all!

I did a roof inspection today on a 5 year old roof. The client is a friend of mine and was concerned with the amount of granules that he found in the gutters. He told me that the gutters have never been cleaned in the entire 5 year period. When I looked in the gutters there was anywhere from .25" to .75" of granules in the gutters. The roof is a 50 yr. roof. There were a few (maybe three or four) shingles that had slightly worn bottom edges. One shingle had a tear and one shingle had a hole in it but overall the roof appeared to be in decent shape. My question is, what would be a normal amount of granule loss for a 50 yr roof over a five yr. span? See the attached photos. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

I have a strong background in roofing (50 years) and am certified by several major manufacturers. In my opinion, the problem is inadequate attic ventilation which causes the shingle to dry out and lose elasticity and the adhesive strength of the asphalt You included one picture which may be the holes created when the oil in the asphalt boils, forming bubbles, which then explode. This is a direct result of excessive attic temperature turning the deck into a frying pan.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by George Hallaron

Hi all!

I did a roof inspection today on a 5 year old roof. The client is a friend of mine and was concerned with the amount of granules that he found in the gutters. He told me that the gutters have never been cleaned in the entire 5 year period. When I looked in the gutters there was anywhere from .25" to .75" of granules in the gutters. The roof is a 50 yr. roof. There were a few (maybe three or four) shingles that had slightly worn bottom edges. One shingle had a tear and one shingle had a hole in it but overall the roof appeared to be in decent shape. My question is, what would be a normal amount of granule loss for a 50 yr roof over a five yr. span? See the attached photos. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

I have a strong background in roofing (50 years) and am certified by several major manufacturers. In my opinion, the problem is inadequate attic ventilation which causes the shingle to dry out and lose elasticity and the adhesive strength of the asphalt You included one picture which may be the holes created when the oil in the asphalt boils, forming bubbles, which then explode. This is a direct result of excessive attic temperature turning the deck into a frying pan.

Originally Posted by Pete Curtis

I have a strong background in roofing (50 years) and am certified by several major manufacturers. In my opinion, the problem is inadequate attic ventilation which causes the shingle to dry out and lose elasticity and the adhesive strength of the asphalt You included one picture which may be the holes created when the oil in the asphalt boils, forming bubbles, which then explode. This is a direct result of excessive attic temperature turning the deck into a frying pan.

Pete, you hit Enter too many times.....,

I have never heard of the asphalt boiling and forming bubbles. Can you cite a source for this information? I would like to read up on it more..

What I was told by an Owns Corning field rep was that the blisters are caused from moisture that is trapped in the asphalt during the production process. The heat from the sun makes the moisture steam and then the blister pops.

Originally Posted by Pete Curtis

I have a strong background in roofing (50 years) and am certified by several major manufacturers. In my opinion, the problem is inadequate attic ventilation which causes the shingle to dry out and lose elasticity and the adhesive strength of the asphalt You included one picture which may be the holes created when the oil in the asphalt boils, forming bubbles, which then explode. This is a direct result of excessive attic temperature turning the deck into a frying pan.

And leaves that peppered look after the granules have washed or blown off.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

Pete, you hit Enter too many times.....,

I have never heard of the asphalt boiling and forming bubbles. Can you cite a source for this information? I would like to read up on it more..

What I was told by an Owns Corning field rep was that the blisters are caused from moisture that is trapped in the asphalt during the production process. The heat from the sun makes the moisture steam and then the blister pops.

Scott,
I suspect that what you were told is closer to the truth than the guy with 50 years experience. I am not questioning his knowledge, but the original shingles on my roof had blisters like that I believe from about when it was new. The attic was well ventilated and I am not in a very hot area.

Originally Posted by Mark Reinmiller

Scott,
I suspect that what you were told is closer to the truth than the guy with 50 years experience. I am not questioning his knowledge, but the original shingles on my roof had blisters like that I believe from about when it was new. The attic was well ventilated and I am not in a very hot area.

Sometimes, shingles are defective the day they leave the factory and age at an accelerated rate.

Originally Posted by Lon Henderson

Sometimes, shingles are defective the day they leave the factory and age at an accelerated rate.

I believe that is sometimes true. In my case my original builders grade shingles lasted 20 years and still look fine. The amount of blisters did not seem to change. In the case of my new shingles, with good ventilation and not being in an excessively hot area, I don't think the large amount of lost granules had anything to do with ventilation or manufacturing defects. The roof is now several years old and the loss of granules has not continued. There are also no visible signs of excessive granule loss on the shingles.

As luck would have it, I was on a roof this week with "peppered" shingles.

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