Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    84

    Default Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Any idea why the roofer chose to cover the parapet vents when applying the fabric membrane? The realtor has a call into him, but I thought I'd check if anyone has run into this?

    ScreenHunter_25 May. 30 17.31.jpg

    Thanks,
    Chris

    Inspection Referral SOC

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,248

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Chris,

    Are you sure they were vents?

    My first thoughts were: a) repaired area; b) overflow scupper (although it may be a bit high for that, but there is nothing present which indicates size/height relationship for size guessing).

    I haven't seen vents (like that) in the sides of low parapet walls (in the sides of tall parapet walls, and with a hood projecting out over the vent, yes, but not like that one).

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,258

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stichter View Post
    Any idea why the roofer chose to cover the parapet vents when applying the fabric membrane? The realtor has a call into him, but I thought I'd check if anyone has run into this?

    ScreenHunter_25 May. 30 17.31.jpg

    Thanks,
    Chris
    \

    Because it's faster than cutting out for the vent. I've probably had it present on roofs, but with the usual MB material it didn't show up like it does with that material. Never seen a vent hood out here, probably a rain thing over there in the "Sunshine State".

    Jim Robinson
    New Mexico, USA

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    No. San Diego Co., CA
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stichter View Post
    Any idea why the roofer chose to cover the parapet vents when applying the fabric membrane? The realtor has a call into him, but I thought I'd check if anyone has run into this?

    ScreenHunter_25 May. 30 17.31.jpg

    Thanks,
    Chris
    The need to pour boiling oil on marauding intruders below lost favor to cyber hacking into their personal internet accounts instead.


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,797

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Can't tell exactly what that is (was), but similar vents are common at older strcutural masonry buindngs here in Chicago, often as half of a pair consisting of a vent a foot or so above grade and it's matching counterpart in or on top of the parapet wall.

    I've never seem proof that they are effective in prolonging masonry life, but property protected from water entry I have not seen evidence that they are a problem either, and where they were original design featuers at such walls I don't recommend covering them over.

    What I DO see, and frequently, is evidence of masonry damage just below such vents which are open to the weather, and I always recommend installation of a "hood" or other flashing to prevent direct water entry into the vent.

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Can't tell exactly what that is (was), but similar vents are common at older strcutural masonry buindngs here in Chicago, often as half of a pair consisting of a vent a foot or so above grade and it's matching counterpart in or on top of the parapet wall.

    I've never seem proof that they are effective in prolonging masonry life, but property protected from water entry I have not seen evidence that they are a problem either, and where they were original design featuers at such walls I don't recommend covering them over.

    What I DO see, and frequently, is evidence of masonry damage just below such vents which are open to the weather, and I always recommend installation of a "hood" or other flashing to prevent direct water entry into the vent.
    Michael, can you post a picture of a vent installed inside a parapet wall like this? I have looked at thousands of Chgo buildings and don't believe I have seen one.

    Mike Lamb
    Inspection Connection, Inc.
    http://www.inspection2020.com/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    FL, TX
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Stichter View Post
    Any idea why the roofer chose to cover the parapet vents when applying the fabric membrane? The realtor has a call into him, but I thought I'd check if anyone has run into this?

    ScreenHunter_25 May. 30 17.31.jpg

    Thanks,
    Chris

    Chris,
    Regardless of WHAT it is, some architect or engineer put it there. Therefore his stamp is on it. Usually roofers dont have archetectural engineering licenses. I would say that unless and engineer stamped the change, or at least that the change was actually detailed to the city or county in the re-roof for thier approval, that this must be reviewed by someone that has a stamp.

    I would write it up just like that.

    Roof detail scupper or vent closed off. This is an engineered feature and must either have been detailed to the jurisdiction at re-roof approval or must be reviewed by a proper engineer.

    Good luck


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis View Post
    Chris,
    Regardless of WHAT it is, some architect or engineer put it there. Therefore his stamp is on it.
    Really?

    Mike Lamb
    Inspection Connection, Inc.
    http://www.inspection2020.com/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    FL, TX
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lamb View Post
    Really?
    Mike,
    Someone stamped the original design. OR it was built before any requirement was made for a stamp. Either way someone designed this feature for a purpose. It could be as simple as a passive radon vent. You tell me what it was? I have no idea and dont really care at all. I didn't engineer it and if I inspected it and it was covered, it gets written up, period. Let an engineer decide what is required.

    In St. Petersburg FL a roofer replaced a flat deck in a mall. In doing so he roofed over what turned out to be scuppers instead of vents.

    During an over 12 inch rainfall in less than 1 hour the roof filled up with tons and tons of water. The entire section of the mall collapsed. No one was killed, but 100% losses of all product and furnishings below was the result, plus some were hurt.

    If I was an inspector paid by the mall, I would have written it up and copied to the city inspectors, period. I am not an engineer. The vent (in this case it was a scupper) was engineered and was required for its purpose. No roofer has the right to just decide it should not exist. It is beyond his pay grade. It was done to reduce costs of the job instead of performing the job.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,797

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lamb View Post
    Michael, can you post a picture of a vent installed inside a parapet wall like this? I have looked at thousands of Chgo buildings and don't believe I haexample ve seen one.
    Next time I see one. I'll take a picture - problem is that unless I copy of a picture of a construction detail to my "detail archive", I forget where I saw something.

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    If the bottom line of the orange oblong is the junction of the flat roof and vertical parapet, then i reckon its a scupper/discharge chute - there should be more than one, even on a small area of flat roofing.

    Given whats in-situ, how does this roof drain?

    What, if anything, can be seen on the outside of the parapet?

    FWIW: there are obviously a number of other failing roof and parapet issues to be seen.

    Again FWIW: a plumber told me about a large shed factory in the Berkeley Ca industrial area about 1979.
    The extensive flat roof had begun to sag in certain areas due to overlarge spans of steel joistings. Puddles were formed and a rippling effect turned into waving during high winds - apparently the roof collapsed or somehow failed.
    The cheap solution was to install drains at all low spots, hence the plumbers part in the incident.


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    FL, TX
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by tom daley View Post
    If the bottom line of the orange oblong is the junction of the flat roof and vertical parapet, then i reckon its a scupper/discharge chute - there should be more than one, even on a small area of flat roofing.

    Given whats in-situ, how does this roof drain?

    What, if anything, can be seen on the outside of the parapet?

    FWIW: there are obviously a number of other failing roof and parapet issues to be seen.

    Again FWIW: a plumber told me about a large shed factory in the Berkeley Ca industrial area about 1979.
    The extensive flat roof had begun to sag in certain areas due to overlarge spans of steel joistings. Puddles were formed and a rippling effect turned into waving during high winds - apparently the roof collapsed or somehow failed.
    The cheap solution was to install drains at all low spots, hence the plumbers part in the incident.
    Tom,
    The issue is not what one can see or figure out regarding roof configuration. Inspection is BINARY. If the original was in a specific configuration then the reroof must be in that configuration or upgraded to code, unless specific engineering changes were made to resolve the difference and were documented and approved (by an engineer or by the city inspection department) as a specific plan detail in the permit application or as built.

    IN one association in Texas, a roofer moved roof vents from within two feet of the top of a roof to midway down the roof on tens and tens of units. The summer heat built up in the attics and everyone's utility bills soared. The change did not even meet code, but the city passed the roofing inspections somehow. The issue is that someone actually ENGINEERED the vents to release the excess heat in the summer (over 180 degrees in the upper attic area now some days). Moving the vents was unnecessary and degraded the function and the value of the property. No one caught the violation until the roofs were completed and costs soared. The management company APPROVED the contractor's plan to unnecessarily move the vents. This made the home owners unable to resolve this through insurance or bond! The vents are still in a code violation condition (I believe the vents must be in the upper 1/3 or 1/4? of the roof, not mid height??), Either way, as an inspector unless the detail was approved by the city, I would have rejected the roofs for moving the vents downt the roof, period. There was NO reasonable justification to begin with.

    We who inspect look and find out if the switch is on or off, good or bad. There is not a condition where an inspector makes and engineering decision or even has to try and figure out whether something could work….it is code or not code, meets design or does not meet design, was r&r'd to original dsesign specification and meets current code or does not. We inspect and then respond in binary to the codes and engineering details of known and visible conditions.

    Is Condition: roofed over detail in parapet wall.
    Should be condition: detail open and watertight inside per original design (or code or whatever one can find)

    Barring that "should be" condition being met the binary is OFF or BAD, period. The good part is that WE can reject and a another type of professional (engineer or city code enforcement etc) can create a "variance" or "engineered fix" or even make a determination that lets say an attic vent is no longer necessary…it is not our call to make unless we have the proper insurance, training and licensing. WE just tell the client the IS and should be conditions…and reject the conditions as necessary.

    I hope this thought process helps.


  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    california
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    No. It doesn't help.

    With your rambling and pretentious "thought process" (God help us) how could it help, except to switch off your reader and send them go binary or some such nonsense.

    Have you ever heard of keeping it simple?
    By the way, using capitals is what children do for emphasis.
    .


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    FL, TX
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by tom daley View Post
    No. It doesn't help.

    With your rambling and pretentious "thought process" (God help us) how could it help, except to switch off your reader and send them go binary or some such nonsense.

    Have you ever heard of keeping it simple?
    By the way, using capitals is what children do for emphasis.
    .
    I am sorry that my response to you did not help. After over 25 years in quality assurance and inspection I find that the simplest way to address inspection issues is to bring it back to basics.

    Inspection/acceptance/rejection is binary only. We dont have to try and engineer anything or decide whether a fix will work. It is as engineered and or it is to manufacturer specification and to code or it is not.

    Yes, I did use emphasis in one word and for purpose. That is acceptable in any formum and in any report.

    Have fun that is what it is about.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,797

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lamb View Post
    Michael, can you post a picture of a vent installed inside a parapet wall like this? I have looked at thousands of Chgo buildings and don't believe I have seen one.
    Here ya' go, one I saw last week.

    I was on the roof with a client for a follow-up on something else, with no camera, so all I had time to do was take a quick cell phone picture, but this is a pretty typical example - there are actually three vents in a horizontal row, you can see the edge of the next one over to the left.

    The gangway below was not accessible, so I could not determine if there was a matching vent at the foot of the wall.

    I'll keep watching, and post a pic of both the parapet and wall vent next time I see them.

    MDT

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,797

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lamb View Post
    Michael, can you post a picture of a vent installed inside a parapet wall like this? I have looked at thousands of Chgo buildings and don't believe I have seen one.
    Here's another, this one is closer to what's shown in the OP:

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Thanks.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks.

    Mike Lamb
    Inspection Connection, Inc.
    http://www.inspection2020.com/

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    FL, TX
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Parapet Roof Vent Issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Here's another, this one is closer to what's shown in the OP:
    Great Pic!!!
    looks like venting to me. Also most likely required as part of the percentage open area for venting under the design and code.


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •