Thread: Asphalt shingles in odd shape

Hey guys I was on the roof doing an inspection and I saw these asphalt shingles against this chimney. They were in odd shape and I was wondering as a young inspector how I should go about describing this? How did this happen and how should it be addressed ? Any help would be awesome thanks guys!!

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Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

Hey guys I was on the roof doing an inspection and I saw these asphalt shingles against this chimney. They were in odd shape and I was wondering as a young inspector how I should go about describing this? How did this happen and how should it be addressed ? Any help would be awesome thanks guys!!

I would simply report what you see. From the photograph, which is all I have to go on, I would put something like:

"Roof shingles that abut the chimney appear to have been installed in an amateur fashion. The shingles are incorrectly cut and flashed in this location. The chimney/shingle connection appears to have undergone amateur repairs with bitumen/tar/sealant used in place of proper step flashing, possibly to fix a leak I am unable to confirm if this area leaks. I recommend a qualified roofing contract inspect closely and repair as required. Failure to follow through could lead to water intrusion and deterioration of interior components."

Feel free to use as a boiler plate narrative.

wow thanks a bunch!!!

Aaron, there are several installation defects visible. This leads me to believe the roof was not installed by professionals. Secondly, they are rudimentary installation defects to ensure the home remains watertight.

You should be able to explain what you are looking at. Hint: Flashing, counterflashing, step flashing, expanse contractive qualities of the roof deck, a chimney. I recommend you review your studies.

Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG

Aaron, there are several installation defects visible. This leads me to believe the roof was not installed by professionals. Secondly, they are rudimentary installation defects to ensure the home remains watertight.

You should be able to explain what you are looking at. Hint: Flashing, counterflashing, step flashing, expanse contractive qualities of the roof deck, a chimney. I recommend you review your studies.

thanks! yea i literally haven't stopped studying sense I finished school. I read articles and watch videos on the Internachi website, buy and read books from Carson Dunlop, and read my code book on a nightly basis. There is just soooo much to know that even with all the time I am putting in it still isn't enough. The only thing I can do is take in as much as possible because time and experience is the best way to become the best inspector possible. But I know you know that Im just blabbering! regardless thanks for the input its greatly appreciated!!!

Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

thanks! yea i literally haven't stopped studying sense I finished school. I read articles and watch videos on the Internachi website, buy and read books from Carson Dunlop, and read my code book on a nightly basis. There is just soooo much to know that even with all the time I am putting in it still isn't enough. The only thing I can do is take in as much as possible because time and experience is the best way to become the best inspector possible. But I know you know that Im just blabbering! regardless thanks for the input its greatly appreciated!!!

Aaron, those are basics defects.

http://www.carsondunlop.com/hrbook/PDF/Roofing.pdf

Pages 23, 24.

Email me any time. If I can help I will.

thank you sir!!!!

Roof surface: Asphalt or Fiberglass mat Composition shingles.
Slope: 4/14.
Roof covering Material: Composition shingles.
Composition shingles have 2 mats/strips, were as three tab shingles are comprised of one mat or strip.

Observation. Buckling, wavy, poor chimney clearance.
Composition Shingles installed over/atop the flashing. (Incorrect installation procedures)
Unable to determine if counter flashing/step flashing is installed.

Location: At the chimney protrusion.

Sloped Roof Metal: Suspect, Worn Original chimney flashing.

Limitations: Inspected by mounting the roof. Materials were visually inspected only.


Recommend: A licensed roofer evaluate and correct the composition shingles and install new counter and chimney flashing.

Time: Immediate.

Chance of roof leakage. Medium.

chimney flashing.JPG

KISS
The chimney flashing is deficient and patched. It's failing due to poor installation, this leads to leaks. Repair/replace immediately. Consult professional roofer prior to close of title.

Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

thanks!

You are welcome. You can find my email address in my signature.

Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

i literally haven't stopped studying sense I finished school.

Take your time. Prepare a study schedule.

Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

I read articles and watch videos on the Internachi website, buy and read books from Carson Dunlop, and read my code book on a nightly basis.

Be focused. Draw up a study time schedule. You want to be proficient at first.

Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

There is just soooo much to know that even with all the time I am putting in it still isn't enough. The only thing I can do is take in as much as possible because time and experience is the best way to become the best inspector possible.

Although you want to be the best, we are judged by our peers.
Be solid in the fundamentals. Then start mastering components. But that is for a later date.

Aaron, avoid the Kool-aid. I often remind members here that they should be immune to someone passionate. I tease them, but its not my fault. I am passionate like you.

Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

But I know you know that Im just blabbering! regardless thanks for the input its greatly appreciated!!!

You have a desire and passion. I fully respect that.
Do not waste energy. Focus!
Get a study partner. As you put it, "there is soooo much to learn."

Only the very best Aaron.

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

KISS
The chimney flashing is deficient and patched. It's failing due to poor installation, this leads to leaks. Repair/replace immediately. Consult professional roofer prior to close of title.

Keep It Simple Student.

I am sure Discover Horizon would help him out.
95% of my narrative layout below is from Horison.
KISS:
1: Shingle, Buckling, wavy, poor chimney clearance.
Suspect, Worn Original chimney flashing.
2: Recommend: A licensed roofer evaluate and correct the composition shingles and install new counter and chimney flashing.

Originally Posted by Aaron Scheuerer

Hey guys I was on the roof doing an inspection and I saw these asphalt shingles against this chimney. They were in odd shape and I was wondering as a young inspector how I should go about describing this? How did this happen and how should it be addressed ? Any help would be awesome thanks guys!!

Aaron, ask three inspectors one question and you'll get five answers!

My suggestion is study some shingle installation videos and information, study some chimney flashing videos and information, study (through google searches) chimney flashing repairs, to see the right and wrong ways to flash chimneys, and then choose from the "professional" answers you are given as part of your query to see which one best fits the defect(s) you are looking at.

Remember the golden rule: RILDR

• REPORT (what you are looking at e.g. roof/chimney/exterior etc.),
• IDENTIFY (the components with defects e.g. Shingles, Flashing, etc.),
• LOCATE (where the defect is e.g. Ridge, roof plane, abut chimney etc.),
• DESCRIBE DEFECT (poor flashing, amateur installation, defective shingles, etc.),
• RECOMMEND & REFER (further action, e.g. repair/replace, maintain, prep/prime/paint REFER licensed/qualified contractor/trade/person)

If in doubt, refer.

Keep in mind that anytime you "refer" your decision out to a trade, you have "deferred" your say in that item to that trades person.

Instead of a simple "refer" to such and such licensed and qualified contractor, start with have a licensed and qualified contractor correct all items which need correcting, including but not limited to (list what you see), the contractor should correct any other issues or items which they find or create (it is not uncommon for a contractor to create noncompliant items while making repairs on other items).

That way, the contractor is not able to:
- say the home inspector missed such and such, whether or not it is on your list because you said "including, but not limited to"
- say that the home inspector did not say to correct something not on your list, so he didn't correct it
- say it is right and does not need to be corrected and walk away not making any repairs (it is not uncommon for contractors to dispute what you are saying, include photos and state what is wrong, include installation instructions which support what you are saying
- and, if you simply "refer" to a contractor, then their word is final, you have no standing or position to say that they didn't correct it ... YOU "deferred" the decision on what is wrong to them

Aaron, have a licensed Construction / Litigation Consultant, and past AHJ guide you and your natives.

From the photo it looks like the step flashing is not flush with the roof. I see that quite a bit because wood framing shrinks and chimneys don't. In this case there may be other reasons because the shingles are not lifted towards the front. When you see something like this don't just look at it and move on, take the time to figure out why the shingles are lifted. That is how you learn to be a good inspector.

Mark
I think there is more going on than shrinkage, see how the ridge takes a dramatic slope upward as it goes behind the chimney?

I do not see any dramatic drop in the roof deck.
It is an illusion caused by the compressed, buckled composition shingles.
A bloody chalk line would have spared them that (Amature) look.
God only knows what else they installed that is not recommended by the manufacturer.
There goes a warranty all the hell...


The roof deck requires a 1" - 2" gap/free space from isolated protruding structures.
A masonry chimney is on such structure.
(A chimney is a structure that provides ventilation for hot flue gases or smoke from a boiler, stove, furnace or fireplace to the outside atmosphere. ... The space inside a chimney is called a flue.)
The deck will expand and contract.

As well, shingles require clearance from penetrations and protrusions.
Plumbing vents, chimneys etc...

The chimney requires flashing and counterflashing.
Step flashing allows the chimney to move independently.
The counter flashing is 4 sections joined to make one section.

1: The shingles are atop the counter flashing. (Amature)
2: The shingles have no clearance.(Amature)

flashing.JPG

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Mark
I think there is more going on than shrinkage, see how the ridge takes a dramatic slope upward as it goes behind the chimney?

Could be the ridge, could be badly cut shingles. Without a photo from further back to see what's going on with the ridge line in general, an inspection along the side of the home to ensure there's no spread, and an inspection of the inside, there can be no definitive diagnosis.

What this tells us, is that when see what appears to be a defect, if you are going to diagnose that causal problem, you may need more evidence to support your opinion.

Any of the opinions I've see on this thread could be more or less accurate and only further investigation will point to the actual cause of the shingle lift/buckle.

What is clear is that the step flashing is missing, and the bodge job of the sealant on the chimney points towards an amateur effort at some point in time.

A photo from further back would be good to see, but based on this photo a doubt that there is any movement at the ridge. The plane of the roof looks too even. Inspecting the roof from the underside would confirm whether any movement occurred. This does not appear to be a condition that requires further evaluation. It appears to be a condition that requires replacing the chimney flashing.

Originally Posted by Mark Reinmiller

A photo from further back would be good to see, but based on this photo a doubt that there is any movement at the ridge.

IMO, typical furnace one flue chimney protruding a gable roof. Very close to the ridge though.

Originally Posted by Mark Reinmiller

The plane of the roof looks too even. Inspecting the roof from the underside would confirm whether any movement occurred. This does not appear to be a condition that requires further evaluation. It appears to be a condition that requires replacing the chimney flashing.

There is so little information.
More pics required.
I concur. New chimney flashing and counterflashing.
As well, full roof review.