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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Santa Rosa, CA
    Posts
    2,481

    Default Missing Starter Strip Over 2nd Layer

    1960 home.
    Old layer of asphalt comp shingle under a recently layer of asphalt comp shingle.
    Old layer has a starter strip, second layer does not.

    All the above I disclosed and discussed with the buyer. They questioned whether a starter strip for the top layer is absolutely necessary since there is one already from the previous layer. They would like to know if the original starter strip will suffice. Their reasoning is that the old starter strip will not have any sun exposure and little rain exposure because it is under multiple shingles.

    Once again, I dug out my shingle installation instruction library and found no exception for a starter course with a second layer. So, I let them know that it is incorrect, that there is no way to determine if will last and that the lack of a starter strip will likely void the warranty. My report stands.

    However, the reality is that they have no choice but to buy the home and they are asking for practical purposes. To understand where they are coming from, here is a more complete story:

    Recent fires took out a few thousand structures, amounting to an estimated 5% of the homes in town. As a result, the remaining homes are in very high demand. Not just from the normal collection of buyers, but now we have a few thousand displaced folks vying for a really limited stock. There is no way that the current inventory of purchase and rental homes is going to house everyone. As a result, any home that is on the market is being snapped-up with multiple offers and prices are soaring 20-40% over asking. Seriously, I am hearing $100-130K+ over asking for modest 3/2 and 4/2 tract homes! It is absolutely insane here.

    Does anyone have any practical experience with lack of a starter course on a second layer? Our weather is pretty mild here, no snow/freeze, no desert temperatures. I recognize that it is partly dependent on what condition the original shingles and starter strip are in. I also understand that this is wrong, but was intrigued. Any thoughts?

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: Missing Starter Strip Over 2nd Layer

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    1960 home.
    Old layer of asphalt comp shingle under a recently layer of asphalt comp shingle.
    Old layer has a starter strip, second layer does not.

    All the above I disclosed and discussed with the buyer. They questioned whether a starter strip for the top layer is absolutely necessary since there is one already from the previous layer. They would like to know if the original starter strip will suffice. Their reasoning is that the old starter strip will not have any sun exposure and little rain exposure because it is under multiple shingles.

    Once again, I dug out my shingle installation instruction library and found no exception for a starter course with a second layer. So, I let them know that it is incorrect, that there is no way to determine if will last and that the lack of a starter strip will likely void the warranty. My report stands.

    However, the reality is that they have no choice but to buy the home and they are asking for practical purposes. To understand where they are coming from, here is a more complete story:

    Recent fires took out a few thousand structures, amounting to an estimated 5% of the homes in town. As a result, the remaining homes are in very high demand. Not just from the normal collection of buyers, but now we have a few thousand displaced folks vying for a really limited stock. There is no way that the current inventory of purchase and rental homes is going to house everyone. As a result, any home that is on the market is being snapped-up with multiple offers and prices are soaring 20-40% over asking. Seriously, I am hearing $100-130K+ over asking for modest 3/2 and 4/2 tract homes! It is absolutely insane here.

    Does anyone have any practical experience with lack of a starter course on a second layer? Our weather is pretty mild here, no snow/freeze, no desert temperatures. I recognize that it is partly dependent on what condition the original shingles and starter strip are in. I also understand that this is wrong, but was intrigued. Any thoughts?
    Starter shingle strips are required. Even the raked end.
    In your case, the selvage courses, the old shingles, starter and first course will be prone to further ware, mat exposure at the tab notch being exposed to UV, roof water and weather.
    Any drip edge?

    Shingle Manufacturer's Warranties are nefarious...

    Looks like you will be gettings lots of work:-)

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Plano, Texas
    Posts
    4,170

    Default Re: Missing Starter Strip Over 2nd Layer

    One of the biggest reasons for a starter strip has nothing to do with leaks but rather creating an "anchor" for the tabs on the tabs on the edge shingle. Without the starter strip or equivalent there is no tar strip (standard three tab shingle) to stick the top shingle tabs down to the roof edge and you can get wind damage. I rarely see any leaks at the roof edge but regularly see improper or missing starter shingle. Totally my opinion but I doubt they will see a leak, especially in your climate but I bet you see some wind!

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ormond Beach, Florida
    Posts
    26,252

    Default Re: Missing Starter Strip Over 2nd Layer

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    One of the biggest reasons for a starter strip has nothing to do with leaks but rather creating an "anchor" for the tabs on the tabs on the edge shingle. Without the starter strip or equivalent there is no tar strip (standard three tab shingle) to stick the top shingle tabs down to the roof edge and you can get wind damage. I rarely see any leaks at the roof edge but regularly see improper or missing starter shingle. Totally my opinion but I doubt they will see a leak, especially in your climate but I bet you see some wind!
    I have seen some installation instructions which state three quarter size spots of plastic roof cement to hold the first course down (one under each tab, or three across an architectural shingle), sometimes in addition to the starter strip.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    MONTREAL QUEBEC-CANADA
    Posts
    1,842

    Default Re: Missing Starter Strip Over 2nd Layer

    Morning everyone. What is a starter strip.
    Starter strips “are” a key component to new shingle roofing coverings.

    A starter strip, an asphalt based shingle, utilized to waterproof the eave and rake edges of your home during a re-roof, is fundamental.

    The reasons you need starter shingles?
    Because laying a course of shingles on the perimeter edge will create a channel, three in this case, where the shingles butt up against each other, which is in direct contact with the roof deck.
    Three tab shingle notches direct the water downstream.
    Reasons to apply the starter strip/shingle, I used shingles;
    1: Applying the starter course, then applying an additional course of (field shingles) atop, one effectively covers those water channels, thus waterproofing your roof deck appropriately. Directing the water flow downstream.
    2: Starter strips prevent shingle blow-off, by adhering the field course and the starter course together with a strong adhesive.

    Most roof's ware mostly at the starter field course. Likely the mat is brittle, mineral granular worn off leaving the organic asphalt or glass fiber mat exposed to saturation, tabs shrink/shrank/shrunk, curled under, due to long reveal, or cupped, clawed, etc... but in my opinion, the most worn shingle in the roof covering field. The start strip, likely a shingled turned 180 on axis, fail slightly better being under the starter field course.

    Adding mastic can help, but typically/usually, as Jerry would put it, and that I now as well use, thanks:-), mastic would detach over time in this case, because there is no start course on shingles atop old shingles, due to the fact that the old starter field course will/would likely wick/absorb, water/moisture at the notch/water channel.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.”

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