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  1. #1
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    Default Tile Roof Install

    Usually the visible portion of the hip battens I see on tile roofs are coated with moisture resistant mastic. This house had some type of poly flashing material over the hip battens which was leaving the wood battens exposed at some areas. In addition, the wind was blowing on this day and I could see and hear the poly material flapping at the hip battens. I have never seen it done this way. Is this type of material allowed in lieu of mastic? See photo for example.

    Thanks,

    Eric

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Depending on the material, yes it would be allowed, however ...

    The main thing I see missing is there is no mortar closure pointing up the spaces between the rake and ridge tiles and the field tiles.

    If you don't close those gaps up, the wind uplift design on the roof tile is exceeded and all installation and design requirements are 'out the window', or, more aptly put, 'off the roof' during high winds. That in addition to allowing wind driven rain to enter. The tile (except on System One tile roofs) is not the water proof covering, but it is intended to keep 95% of the water off the tile underlayment, the only way that can happen is to seal the tile where it meets at hips, ridges, adjacent walls, head walls, valleys, etc.

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    That's all they use here.
    Mortor is only used at the ends, and where the ridge tiles go in a different direction
    The common items I see, they use short filler pieces that shift, and use the ones marked left side on the right side, [ guess left and right, didn't make to the english translation book] if they fail to secure ridge tiles they also slip, exposing the ridge board.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Harris View Post
    That's all they use here.
    Mortor is only used at the ends,
    "That's all they use here" means 'no mortar' at all the open tile joints along the rakes, side walls, and head walls?

    That ain't right. Except on some System One installations, where they use the slater's edge flashings (with the turned up edge) under the tiles to direct water out and keep the water from going in under the tile (on System One tile roofs, the tile *IS* the water proof covering).

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    That is an awfuly large gap. It appears that we have two different types of roofing to me. That cap does not appear to fit properly. Mortar or no mortar.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Jerry,

    Do you (or anyone else) have a photo of the mortar application you are describing?

    Thanks,

    Eric


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Like this?

    Photo was taken to show loose ridge tiles, however, it also shows rake tiles with mortar.

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  8. #8
    Greg D. Dames's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Eric - Seems to me that local codes may apply. The big critics are from Florida and they do require concret which helps hold the tiles down during winds. In Texas codes may not require what is required in Florida...You may have to check with a roofer you can rely upon or the local Building and Safety department.

    However I do agree that the gap is excessive.

    To my knowledge at least where I live in CA concrete is not required. See it alot in the true Spanish Tile roofs but not for the flat concrete tiles.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    The Concrete and Clay Roof Tile Installation Manual for Moderate Climate Regions from RTI (Roof Tile Institute) gives two options for hip and ridge installations, on allows not using mortar, it states: (underlining is mine)

    Openings at hips, ridges and head walls including chimneys, skylights, solar panels, and downslope horizontal abutments shall be fitted with a weather blocking material to keep water on the surface of the field tile. Other methods approved by the local building official will be allowed. See Technical Bulletin at rooftile.org.

    If that material is not installed such that: 1) it is weather blocking; 2) keeps the water on the surface of the field tile; then check with the building official to see if, in his infinite wisdom, he has allowed less.

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  10. #10
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    Thumbs up Re: Tile Roof Install

    Happy New Year everyone.

    Eric & others, I think I posted this a long time back, but an excellent tile roof resource for all would be from the Tile Roofing Institute, combined from old National Tile Roofing Mfctr. Assoc. (NTRMA) and Western States Roofing Contractors Assoc. (WSRCA) back in late 90's. I've been using this from the first edition effective 1/02, newly revised on 7/06, and adopted in 11/06; for all 'Design Criteria for Moderate Climate Regions'. (that includes us, Greg)

    TRI link: http://www.monierlifetile.com/techni...Manual0806.pdf (it's a big'n 18.92 MB)

    Texas go here: http://www.hansonrooftile.com/conten...oof%20Tile.pdf

    Florida go here: http://www.tileroofing.org/uploadedF...a%20Manual.pdf

    Stay safe,

    Steve Lottatore
    Bilt-Rite Property Inspections & Consulting, LLC


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Thanks everyone. There is some good info here

    I rarely see mortar at these open spaces in my area. What I usually see is a thick coating of a tar looking mastic sealing the open spaces to keep the weather off the battens and out of the open spaces. In this case however, all that was protecting the open spaces was the poly-flash looking material which as you can see in the photo does not actually seal anything from (as mentioned earlier) wind driven rain etc.


  12. #12
    Hetty John's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Hi...I just want to give you some instruction while installing Tile roof..
    • Install underlayment across the sheathing of the roof. There is a wide selection of asphalt-saturated felt underlayment available, but 30 pound felt is the most commonly used type. Research local building codes to determine what type of underlayment to use. Follow underlayment manufacturer instructions when installing.
    • Install the metal flashing where needed. Places such as valleys, chimneys, skylights, and where a roof butts against a vertical wall will require metal flashing. The flashing should be a 28-ga corrosion-resistant metal.
    • Nail the two-inch thick cant strip flush with the eave of the roof. This strip, which is twice the thickness of the battens, slants the first course of tiles so that it matches the rest of the courses. Every four feet, allow a half-inch to one-inch gap to let water drain across the row of cant strip and the battens, which will be placed across the entire roof.
    • Hook a tape measure to the roof eave and measure up the length of the tile being used; make a mark on the underlayment. The tiles will have a one-inch overhang at the eave and the half-inch head lug at the rear of the tile, so minus one-and-a-half inches from the first mark and make a mark on the underlayment. Do this at both ends of the roof and then snap a line with a chalk box. For example, if the tile is 16 inches, the mark will be made 15 inches up from the eave.
    • Nail the 1x2 batten below and flush with the snapped line. For the rest of the snapped lines for the battens, minus three-and-a-half inches from the length of the tile being used and snap lines this length across the rest of the roof. For example, if the tile is 16 inches, the marks will be placed every 13 inches up the roof and snapped out for the battens
    __________________________________________________ _________
    You can know more about Austin roofing or Texas roofing.

    Last edited by Hetty John; 06-01-2011 at 03:29 AM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Hetty John View Post
    Hi...I just want to give you some instruction while installing Tile roof..
    • Install underlayment across the sheathing of the roof. There is a wide selection of asphalt-saturated felt underlayment available, but 30 pound felt is the most commonly used type.

    John,

    I may have missed it where you said to install the cap sheet, the 90 pound tile underlayment sheet (which could also be modified bitumen, etc.), or are you saying that you guys up there ONLY install a 30 pound felt under the tile?

    I've never seen a tile installation which only allowed a 30 pound felt as the underlayment ... the least I've seen was a 43 pound underlayment sheet.

    Most tile roofs I've seen, and I've seen quite a few, use a 30/90 hot mop underlayment (or a 30 pound dry-in with a modified cap sheet) for the better tile installations, and even the crappy System One tile roof systems use a 43 pound sheet.

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Try this.

    Attached Files Attached Files
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    Try this.
    Well ... no wonder so many tile roofs leak over there in the west ...

    Have anything newer which indicates that is still allowed?

    That is almost as bad, maybe even worse, than what was first allowed for tile roofs here, but they soon learned and that (unsealed System One tile roofs) is no longer allowed.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Tile Roof Install

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Well ... no wonder so many tile roofs leak over there in the west ...

    Have anything newer which indicates that is still allowed?

    That is almost as bad, maybe even worse, than what was first allowed for tile roofs here, but they soon learned and that (unsealed System One tile roofs) is no longer allowed.
    That's all I have. I can check with them to see if they have an updated booklet. Do you happen to have ASTM C 1492? I supose there may be some useful info in there. This may help you out in FLA.

    http://www.tileroofing.org/uploadedF...l_GuideWEB.pdf

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