Counter flashing at chimney

**Trent Tarter** · 07-17-2008, 05:13 PM

I would like a second opinion on the short counter flashing. It seems to me that counter flashing should be longer and extend out over the top course or shingles.

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**Rick Cantrell** · 07-17-2008, 06:16 PM

Although somewhat worn, the counter flashing looks OK.
Can you tell if the flashing is on top of the shingles or below them?
The nails I see on top of shingles are a No No.

**Eric Barker** · 07-17-2008, 07:05 PM

From the picture the counter flashing looks a bit sloppy. You are right to question why flashing does not extend over the top course of shingles. It's probably safe to say that this was a non-professional application.

Ted Menelly · 07-17-2008, 07:08 PM

Like most of those I find they put that short course of shingles over the flashing and tack it down thru the shingles to keep it down. Most of the time I see caulk over the nails. Obviously not correct but just a securing and visual thing.

**Rick Cantrell** · 07-17-2008, 07:16 PM

"Most of the time I see caulk over the nails"

I would rather see the shingles over the flashing not nailed, but adhered with roof cement.

Cary Seidner · 07-18-2008, 08:54 AM

You are correct. The flashing is wrong.

**Markus Keller** · 07-18-2008, 10:36 AM

The flashing is wrong. The bottom/counter/apron flashing should be on top of the last row of shingles. Homeowners complain they don't like the way it looks. All they want to see is their pretty shingles not 'that dark, ugly metal stuff'. I have no problem with a few shingles glued on top of the flashing for appearance. The second I see one nail through it though it's a defect.

**Mike Schulz** · 07-18-2008, 02:23 PM

Depends on the roofing company. Some like exposed metal some like to cover it with a layer of shingles. The shingles would be under the apron metal but they install another course to cover the metal. Why would you call out a face nail if it's caulked. How else do you nail down the leading edge of the metal. As long as they are caulked it's not a problem. There are many areas that are faced nailed like a top of hip or the finish tab on the ridge. Just gluing the shingle down is not efficient. Eventually the sealant will fail and the shingle blow off.

The corner of the chimeny is wrong though. The step flashing should be on top of the notched shingle. In this instance the application of the apron and first piece of step flashing is wrong and should be corrected. If you look at the corners the water will run down the side and under the shingle from what I can see.

Cary Seidner · 07-18-2008, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mike Schulz

Depends on the roofing company. Some like exposed metal some like to cover it with a layer of shingles. The shingles would be under the apron metal but they install another course to cover the metal. Why would you call out a face nail if it's caulked. How else do you nail down the leading edge of the metal. As long as they are caulked it's not a problem. There are many areas that are faced nailed like a top of hip or the finish tab on the ridge. Just gluing the shingle down is not efficient. Eventually the sealant will fail and the shingle blow off.

The corner of the chimeny is wrong though. The step flashing should be on top of the notched shingle. In this instance the application of the apron and first piece of step flashing is wrong and should be corrected. If you look at the corners the water will run down the side and under the shingle from what I can see.

And it will fail on other areas to, like the face nails. Exposed nails in hips and ridges are a weak point in the roof system.

**Markus Keller** · 07-18-2008, 02:51 PM

I can't say for sure if they used solarseal, butyl or some cheap latex caulk. Unless a place is in a high wind location I see no good reason to nail the end of the flashing to the roof if otherwise properly installed.
A good roofer can run a ridge or hip with only two nails caulked at the very last piece at the end. All others should be overlapped.
One of the big problems is too many guys who aren't properly trained doing roofs and leaving exposed nails all over the place. Each nail might be the next leak.

**Mike Schulz** · 07-18-2008, 03:18 PM

I see no good reason to nail the end of the flashing to the roof if otherwise properly installed.

Unless you use a very heavy gauge metal, long sections of apron have to be face nailed or they lift. The overlaps are also prone to open. Anything over 3' long gets nailed around here. The roof plain dips in areas (24" on centers) and the metal doesn't flex with it. Look at the gauge of metal I bet most is thin and you can't get it to lay straight and flat. Most builders want aluminum now and it's costly so thin gauge is what they use. On older homes the metal was galvanize and thicker and cheap and you could get away without nailing it in some cases. But face nailing the apron is not a problem. Not nailing it can be when you have to go back because it lifted.

**Mike Schulz** · 07-18-2008, 03:22 PM

And it will fail on other areas to, like the face nails. Exposed nails in hips and ridges are a weak point in the roof system.

Yes and you should have someone check the sealants every few years. But walking around the yard picking up shingle tabs because the wind blew them off from not nailing them is not the way to go.

Everything on the home needs maintenance and that includes the roof.