Woven Valley, architectural shingles. Photos.

[Katherine Abernathy]

These are Landmark
I’m concerned about water and organic matter getting into both the top and bottom gaps, and bats entering the house at the bottom gap. The man in charge of roofing for the contractor told me that there is extensive flashing under the valley, so I don’t suppose the water that gets under the top shingle would go anywhere, but I’d think that the shingle itself would deteriorate faster and be more vulnerable to fire.

Around here we have many torrential rains every year; snowfalls are usually insignificant but occasionally (10 years ago) there have been 20+ inch snowfalls; lots of insects (spiders, wasps, bees); lots of pine needles; and impressive pollen seasons--you actually see curtains of yellow pollen when a wind gust hits a pine tree.

I asked both the roofer who came to do an assessment of the roof and the home inspector about this valley and mentioned my concerns; they both said this valley was fine. Are they right? I would think it would be wise to replace the top shingle and redo the bottom of the valley the way a valley is supposed to be done--along the eaves. What do you advise?

Thanks.

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[wayne soper]

http://www.certainteed.com/resources...apeInstall.pdf

[Brandon Whitmore]

EDITED: Never mind-- personal opinion removed.

[Garry Sorrells]

The man in charge of roofing for the contractor told me that there is extensive flashing under the valley, so I don’t suppose the water that gets under the top shingle would go anywhere, but I’d think that the shingle itself would deteriorate faster and be more vulnerable to fire.


I asked both the roofer who came to do an assessment of the roof and the home inspector about this valley and mentioned my concerns; they both said this valley was fine. Are they right? I would think it would be wise to replace the top shingle and redo the bottom of the valley the way a valley is supposed to be done--along the eaves. What do you advise?

Thanks.[/quote]


You seem to have conflicting feelings about your roof.

Extensive can mean different things such as 36" membrane (Weather Watch, Winterguard) then 24" alum valley flashing with woven shingle on top with some 15# or 30# felt along the way. Get the roofer to tell you in writing what they did.

You seem to think from experience that portions should be redone. You say ""I would think it would be wise to replace the top shingle and redo the bottom of the valley the way a valley is supposed to be done--along the eaves. "" Therefore you have formulated an opinion already. The pictures are little difficult to see exactly what your major concerns are. Earth, Wind and Fire sound like a hit tune. Bugs and bee's go everywhere. Maybe what you want is a open valley. Ask roofer what he would charge to go back and cut open the valley, if possible due how valley was flashed. Also, why they would or would not attempt alterations.

To redo the bottom of the valley would mean tearing up a lot of roof. Arch. shingle are what they are and do not lend them selves to laying flat due to their surface.

Go to manufactures specifications to determine if the roof way laid correctly.

[Richard Pultar]

you probably /should /will get get a lot of money from them just to get away from you.
You are a naive pain .
Do you drive a Volvo?

[Larry Morrison]

It looks like a typical "California Weave". Good roofers know how do this correctly and they are effective as well as aesthetically more attractive than an exposed metal valley. From the evidence given, I would not note any concern on my inspection report.

[Stuart Brooks]

Somewhere in all the documentation I've collected, Certainteed says to use only 3-tab shingles for woven valleys. Therefore, layered architectural shingles use a cut line or open valley. Now, that is from Certainteed, one of the leading manufacturers for roofing and siding materials. I'm willing to wager a small amount (not a gambler type) that not ALL shingle manufacturers bother to publish the same installation instructions if any.

If the shingles are a Certainteed product, you can say, "Not installed in accordance with the manufacturers instructions". BTW, I see it all the time. The roofers consider it artistic or something. I don't like a wide opening at the end of the valley regardless of the method of installation.

[Garry Sorrells]

Kathrine.\,
You have quite a few different threads and posts. I have looked at some of these and there are issues with the work. Its interesting that it took you so long to get your head out of the sand and actually look at what had been done. The valley is a minor issue as to the copious amount of other items that have been done in a poor workman like manor. I wounder what you are shopping for from this forum. Legal basis to clain damages based on Home Inspectors evaluating pictures. What you should be doing is to find a knowledgeable, experienced and reliable contractor that you can put on retainer along with a lawyer that can act in you behalf. Parsing out all of the problems that you want the members here to give a definitive answer, that you could use as leverage when seeking with your contractors, will not really serve you well. Its been 11 months and you are not satisfied with the responses that the contractor and roofer have given you. From the other pictures that you have posted you realize that things are wrong. Either something is right or wrong. Most states require that work be completed in a "workman like fashion", which does not mean perfect. Take pictures. Get (pay) a contractor (expert) to thoroughly review the work and prepare a detailed report that is supported my building code, manufacture specification on installation, industry standards of practice, etc. that will stand up in court (and one that you will understand) coordinate with an attorney to pressure the contractors to resolve the problems and make you whole or head to litigation. You do not and will not be able to do this on your own. The learning curve is to great. Looking for others to fuel your perception on what words will provide you with leverage is wrong methodology.

[Stuart Brooks]

Kathrine.\,
... snip ...Most states require that work be completed in a "workman like fashion", which does not mean perfect. ... snipped

I agree. The statement is there because it sounds good. Virtually impossible to substantiate except in the most extreme case. For every "expert" you can put up on a witness stand to say the work is poor and not acceptable, the opposing side can find one that to testify there's nothing wrong with it. Even some of the standards set by the NAHB are so broad I wonder why they bother publishing them.

[Garry Sorrells]

Stuart,
That is why you have to go to manufacture spec. and standard practices/methods. A good (not cheap $) report has to take the subjective opinion out and make it objective fact. Line all of the ducts up. Report will also resolve " I just don't like the way it looks " statement and put into the realm of done right or done wrong. Sad to say that often done wrong is just not enough. It boils down to how bad was it done. You are now back to a subjective view of the problem and who is making the determination will define the issue. The bottom line is it will take money to get money.

[matt faust]

What bothers me about those valley pictures is the degree of bend.
Is there any limitation on that.

It will be fun to research.

mf

[Ian Page]

Matt
That's why most manufacturers recommend 'open valleys', thereby eliminating the bend and extending serviceable life.

ip

[Markus Keller]

I looked on the GAF site the other day to check valley configuration for a client. The install guide for the architectural shingle was vague. It didn't make it quite clear whether you could do a woven valley or not with arch series shingles. On their site there is also a video about valley installation techniques. In the video they specifically say that woven valleys are only to be done with 3 tab shingles. Open or closed cut valleys are to be used with Arch series shingles.
Just a note on what another manufacturer is saying.

[chris mcintyre]

On their site there is also a video about valley installation techniques.

Video Library - How to do Valleys

[Aaron Hayward]

I have personally tried to weave an Architectural/layered/textured shingle with little success. This past summer while shingling my own roof i started out this way in a valley, i immediately noticed that it was not going to work very well. The shingles are to thick to use this technique in a way that will promote durability and aesthetics.

The only alternative that i could up with was to use the cut valley. The key here is to always shingle the smaller roof first(i.e. dormer, offset etc.) and then the larger or main roof as more water will shed from this portion onto the smaller roof. The cut should also be placed slightly up the main roof and not directly in the valley, a couple to three inches should work nicely.

Is it wrong to weave thick shingles, in my opinion yes. I have never seen it documented in a code or manufacturers spec though.

If a more common or traditional shingle is used i also feel that the weave is the preferred method to use in valleys.

Aaron

[Katherine Abernathy]

Thank you for taking the time to address my questions. You have been very helpful.

We are not looking to sue anybody. The contractor will comply with any reasonable request. And we don't need perfection. I have been trying to find out what would be necessary and, therefore, reasonable requests. To that end, I've wanted to know what will and will not cause avoidable problems down the road. Clearly, some problems with this roof would cause problems if not fixed. Other things, I don't know enough to know whether they are actually problematic or just imperfections that don't really matter. So I've been asking you all for guidance.

Thanks again for the advice you have given.