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Thread: Stupidity
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06-25-2011, 06:32 AM #1
Stupidity
Pics from the service panel at yesterday's inspection. Pointed sheet metal screws securing the deadfront cover of the panel and how close they came to creating a very bad situation. I actually got a little chill after removing the deadfront cover and seeing the gouge in the service cable.
"It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey
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06-25-2011, 06:45 AM #2
Re: Stupidity
A couple of years ago I drove a screw like than into the SEC - it surely livened up the inspection and got everyone's attention. I also able to confirmed that the main breaker worked.
Eric Barker, ACI
Lake Barrington, IL
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06-25-2011, 08:07 AM #3
Re: Stupidity
Arc welding using only a screwdriver.
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06-25-2011, 01:25 PM #4
Re: Stupidity
Lucky for whoever did this that it was the neutral that the screw penetrated!
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06-25-2011, 01:59 PM #5
Re: Stupidity
So, when you were finished, did you put the same screws back in?
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06-25-2011, 02:42 PM #6
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06-25-2011, 05:35 PM #7
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06-25-2011, 06:56 PM #8
Re: Stupidity
Can't tell if that is a cable, but looks like XHH* insulation.
All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.
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06-25-2011, 07:28 PM #9
Re: Stupidity
"It takes a big man to cry. It takes an even bigger man to laugh at that man". - Jack Handey
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06-26-2011, 07:13 AM #10
Re: Stupidity
Good reason to carry a few different types of spare screws someplace in the inspection vehicle.
Though, if I can tell they're pointed screws I sometimes don't even bother taking the cover off, just calling the pointed screws and recommending an electrician finish it.
A wise man learns from his experience.
A truly wise man learns from other peoples experience.
Just not sure I want to do arc welding with a screw driver.
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Erby Crofutt, Georgetown, KY - Read my Blog here: Erby the Central Kentucky Home Inspector B4 U Close Home Inspections www.b4uclose.com www.kentuckyradon.com
Find on Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/B4UCloseInspections
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06-26-2011, 08:59 AM #11
Re: Stupidity
A possible point to ponder here is that the cover usually has paint on all of it, including where it contacts the box. In many cases this makes the paint the screw removes (if any) when installed the only way the cover is bonded to the box. The type of box construction shown allows the requirement for engagement of 2 full threads of the bonding screw to be met if a fine thread (32 TPI) is used. Sheet metal screws don't meet the requirement.
I break out the Dremel with a small wire brush and clean off the area under the head of one or two of the screws so there is a good bond.
You can put a continuity tester on an exposed piece of bare metal on covers (breaker knockout hole edge) and on the panel box and find no continuity in many cases.
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06-26-2011, 02:24 PM #12
Re: Stupidity
A couple years ago I tested a panel cover before removing it and there was no flow at all. I stuck the trusty screwdriver ( I usually use a small twelve volt screw driver) on the screw and started unscrewing the first screw when suddenly before I even felt the screw driver leave my hand I heard a large POW and the screw drive stuck in the wall behind me.
I guess the screw just needed another twist or 2 to cut thru the insulation. The client just walked away from the spot the screwdriver stuck in the drywall behind me. The damn driver just blew out of my hand with a blinding flash and a bang. So much for test the panel cover first ..... I usually don't.
Last edited by Ted Menelly; 06-28-2011 at 03:09 PM.
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06-26-2011, 02:30 PM #13
Re: Stupidity
yikes and double yikes....
I have replaced pointed screws in the past when I find them (after ensuring that all wires would be out of the way.
Of course, leaving the cabinet cover off is too dangerous as well and I don't (should, maybe) carry extra cabinet screws.
Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
www.TylerHomeInspector.com
Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area
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06-26-2011, 04:27 PM #14
Re: Stupidity
Eric (#2) Just curious on how the main breaker would trip when the short was on the SEC which is on the line side of the main breaker. I would think either the screw would be blown to bits thus breaking the short, or the transformer fuse would blow.
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06-26-2011, 06:28 PM #15
Re: Stupidity
I'd be concerned about what has been cut unsecured and abandoned.
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It Might have Choked Artie But it ain't gone'a choke Stymie! Our Gang " The Pooch " (1932)
Billy J. Stephens HI Service Memphis TN.
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06-27-2011, 03:42 AM #16
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06-27-2011, 10:43 AM #17
Re: Stupidity
The transformer fuse will not blow no matter how well you might ground the line conductor.
The best one I have done.... In an attempt to satisfy a customers request that I not leave them without power too long, I decided to remove/prepare all that I could before cutting power.
When punching out the mortar around the old service cable, POW!
My large steel punch blew out of my hand like a missile. I don't know what happened to the first inch or so, probably vaporized.
I seems that the original installer (maybe the brick layers) thought they would hide the ugly cable behind the brick for a foot, before bringing it outside.
Needless to say, I stopped bowing to this common request.
When taking cover screws out, throwing the switch on a one-arm-bandit, (either on or off), working on transformers or any of the like,
do not stand if front of the equipment. Stand to the side or at least position your head to one side.
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06-27-2011, 12:15 PM #18
Re: Stupidity
I have blown a transformer fuse before....not on the customer side of the meter though.
Bruce Thompson, Lic. #9199
www.TylerHomeInspector.com
Home Inspections in the Tyler and East Texas area
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06-27-2011, 12:53 PM #19
Re: Stupidity
Wow, the comments have me laughing. It is a serious problem, encountered too often. The most irritating occurrence was discovering pointed screws holding the panel covers on for both residences in a duplex. My client asked for and paid for a review to make sure that all requested corrections were completed. When it was discovered that the pointed screws were not replaced, I asked the seller why. His "electrician" said it was alright and they didn't have to be replaced. Hmmm . . . I wonder if pop-rivets would solve the problem.
Randall Aldering GHI BAOM MSM
Housesmithe Inspection
www.housesmithe.com
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06-27-2011, 04:28 PM #20
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06-28-2011, 10:37 AM #21
Re: Stupidity
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06-28-2011, 01:29 PM #22
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06-28-2011, 02:27 PM #23
Re: Stupidity
It could be the inrush current! If the breaker has a low KAIC rating like 10 KAIC and you dead short the unfused line coming into the breaker it may trip. This is also something that can happen if the KAIC rating of a given breaker is less than the rating of the transformer on its line side. When the transformer is first energized or shorted it may or may not trip the breaker, but the potential is there! I have seen this happen and had to deal with it in the past.
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07-01-2011, 06:28 AM #24
Re: Stupidity
Unfortunately we run into "STUPIDITY" on a daily bases. I had an old and very experienced inspector some 15 years ago tell me to always check the panel box cover with the back of your hand before deciding to remove it. If it's warm don't touch it call for a qualified electrician. If it's hot you hand muscles will contract pulling away from the cover. Additionally always use a fully insulated screw driver.
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07-01-2011, 07:19 AM #25
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07-01-2011, 12:54 PM #26
Re: Stupidity
Yes warm as in "temperature" means it could be overloaded.
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07-01-2011, 04:17 PM #27
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