Request to Remove Page from Report

[Nick Ostrowski]

I received a request today from a realtor to remove a specific page from the report for an inspection I did two days ago. I've never met this realtor before this inspection and while the request may be minor, I have a problem with requests like these.

1 - I've already done my inspection and report.
2 - I don't like the idea of being the one to send out two different reports. If they want to omit information, I feel that is their job, not mine. I've already done one report and my work is done.

The thing that's odd is the page she wants omitted really contains nothing of any significance. But for whatever reason they don't want the sellers to receive one specific page and since the report is a PDF file, they cannot alter it.

How do you guys handle requests like this?

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[Stuart Brooks]

I received a request today from a realtor to remove a specific page from the report for an inspection I did two days ago. I've never met this realtor before this inspection and while the request may be minor, I have a problem with requests like these.

1 - I've already done my inspection and report.
2 - I don't like the idea of being the one to send out two different reports. If they want to omit information, I feel that is their job, not mine. I've already done one report and my work is done.

The thing that's odd is the page she wants omitted really contains nothing of any significance. But for whatever reason they don't want the sellers to receive one specific page and since the report is a PDF file, they cannot alter it.

How do you guys handle requests like this?

"Sorry, I don't modify reports for anything other than corrections or an addendum."
I'm with you on the fact the report was created and submitted as inspected.

[James Duffin]

I have one agent that asks for a Word version of the report so he can C&P into the repair request form he uses. I send it along with the pdf files. This way the agent can modify the report as he see's fit. The buyer gets the pdf file only.

[Jerry Peck]

How do you guys handle requests like this?

'I'll check with my client ... and at the same time I'll ask if they want to remove a section of the sales contract, you know, the part about the commission and limitations on the inspection ... I am sure they will want EVERYTHING included ... Hello? Hello? Are you still there?' (dang the agent must have hung up)

Sometimes their requests are just SO STUPID that the only response is one which throws them for a loop and that they totally did not expect and do not know how to respond to.

[Benjamin Thompson]

Weird request! If they can't figure out how to remove a page from a PDF themselves they are idiots! I would tell them to open their copy of Adobe Acrobat and alter it any way they are comfortable with, at their own risk!

[Dom D'Agostino]

I'd either say "No" and end it,

or

"If my client wants it altered, have him call me"

You can cute that up as necessary.

Dom.

[Jerry Peck]

Weird request! If they can't figure out how to remove a page from a PDF themselves they are idiots! I would tell them to open their copy of Adobe Acrobat and alter it any way they are comfortable with, at their own risk!

I would not want to "give them permission" to remove a page, not even when qualifying it with "at their own risk" as that "give them permission" goes a long way toward defeating whatever follows.

All they have to do is print the report, remove the page they don't want, then scan the report back in as a pdf if they need it as a pdf, but ...

I suspect what they want is not just that the page is removed, but that the report be considered "complete" with the removal of that page, which would also include having your document automatically renumber the pages (hopefully your pages are numbered, I always numbered mine as Page x of x Pages). Numbered pages let's your client (and everyone else who see the report) that the report is complete ... or has missing pages.

[Nick Ostrowski]

I replied to the realtor's e-mail and stated essentially what Stuart said....."It is my policy to modify reports for corrections and addendums only." I advised the realtor that if there is a part of the report they don't want the seller to see, they should print out a hard copy and pull that specific page or simply black out the sections in question with a marker. The marker and blacking things out would be preferable from my standpoint as it makes it clear there are other pages or sections to the report.

I spend too much time on my reports as it is. The last thing I want to do is spend additional time making changes to an already completed report to suit somebody else's needs. If there's going to be an altered or shortened copy of the inspection report out there in addition to my original, it isn't going to come from me.

[Joe Suelter]

(hopefully your pages are numbered, I always numbered mine as Page x of x Pages). Numbered pages let's your client (and everyone else who see the report) that the report is complete ... or has missing pages.

Awesome. Mine are numbered, but I like your idea much better. I would have never thought of needing that, until this thread!

[Matt Fellman]

Since it's nothing of significance I'd bet it has to do with the lender.... they probably don't want to loan on blue houses this month. I've had some crazy back and forths with lenders over the last few months. Logic and reality are out the window from the start and it goes downhill from there.

I'm usually one to do pretty much anything I can for my clients but I may refuse this one.... I just don't like the idea of having two reports floating around with different info.

This reminds me of an incident once when an agent asked me (with a straight face) if I could make up two reports.... one with the problems and one clean for the lender and the home warranty company. At least she was killing two birds with one stone..... insurance fraud and mortgage fraud.

[William Kievit]

Who paid for the report? They are your only client . Perform the inspection and write the report for them. Provide one and only one report and present it to the client. If they choose to provide a copy to another party that is their business.

[Markus Keller]

I don't even understand why you would take a phone call like that and discuss it. Maybe PA SOP allows that sort of thing. I don't know.
The agent isn't the client, it's not their report to ask squat about. I've had a few agents call me and ask similar. It's a very quick and definitive call. "NO, don't call me again. You are out of line." click
I'll make phrasing, layout or summary changes for a client upon request. Nothing is coming out of the report once it's in.
Did a sample inspection for a big commercial client a few years ago. Would have been a very fat ongoing contract, Multi-unit commercial buildings. They 'needed' inspection reports but didn't really want 'real' inspection reports. I submitted my report. They called 4 times asking me to remove stuff from the report. I didn't remove anything, just reformatted so items were less prominent. They never called me again, big surprise. I happen to know who they use and it's actually pretty funny. The guy is a real soft peddler. He couldn't use the word hazardous if a truck was coming straight at him. I actually landed a contract with another organization that had been using that very guy. They came to realize he was soft peddling everything, realized they needed 'real' inspection reports, got rid of him and hired me.
You can spend a lot of time figuring out why someone wants a report changed. Simple things, ulterior motives, who knows. You are providing a detailed report about a property at a specific point in time. It is what it is. You start 'omitting' things upon request, your credibility changes along with it. The liability comes back on you professionally and possibly financially.

[Garry Sorrells]

Nick,
In PA who are required to have access to the inspection report?

The report is the report. Changes (corrections or additions) by addendum only, protects you. Have the agent put their request with reasons for the request in writing, then refuse request. You will have some hard evidence that the agent was trying to involve you a fraudulent act. Again, provides some protection for you.

I would be curious in seeing the page that is in question.

Regarding the PDF file and the ability to make changes by others just involves the software used.

[Nick Ostrowski]

I don't even understand why you would take a phone call like that and discuss it. Maybe PA SOP allows that sort of thing. I don't know..

How do you propose I not take that phone call Markus? Caller ID is one thing but being able to read the caller's mind and know what they are going to say is another. You answer the phone and hear the request. It's not really in your control.

My inspection agreement only authorizes me to release the inspection report to the buyer and if they desire, to their realtor as well. And I didn't even send the realtor a copy of the report as I didn't have her e-mail address at the time.

The e-mail the realtor sent to me with the request was contradictory. She said they wanted page #8 omitted with parentheses next to it that said (cost to repair estimates page). Page #8 and the estimates to repair page are two different pages in my report. It appears as if they didn't want the cost to repair estimates passed along but her request was not clear. In any event, I made it clear up front that I include estimates in my report. If they want it omitted, that's their job. I've already completed my report. Estimates are not required in PA so if they would have asked upfront to not include the figures, I would have gladly left them out. But since I took the time to put them in, they stay.

[Joe Suelter]

You just answered your own question! You didn't send the agent a copy.

[Jerry Martin]

I had a realtor call me about a termite job that I priced a month ago. She is one of my regulars and the selling agent. The bank approved the treatment cost if I could treat it and supply the paperwork yesterday. For some reason the listing agent called and wanted me to fax the paperwork to her yesterday saying the job was completed before I did the treatment. I told her that would be breaking most of the structural pest control laws I work under but would get the paperwork to her the minute I finished the job. I wouldn't want to jepordize my license for any amount of money or anyone. I don't know about HI license but the paperwork is one of the major things our state inspectors look at when they come to our office to inspect us annually.

[Jim Hintz]

Alter nothing for nobody - your word is your bond. What's in the report is what was inspected. Be honest, if this realtor is this shady, you don't want their business, cause you know damn good and well they'll expect you to lie / omit again...... Had a new agent a few weeks back - some worn-out ex beauty queen wannabe / Tammy Faye Baker lookalike - anyway, the tax records and the listing showed the house as being a 1963. I knew it wasn't right from the start due to the architecture and that was backed up by the knob and tube I viewed through the window at the gable above the garage !!! I told the agent the house was 1940's architecture or older. She didn't want me to say anything to the buyer because she thought the buyer would lose faith in the whole realtor / home buying experience !!! Well, not only did I tell the buyer, but I backed it up with numerous photos and I haven't heard back from either one of them - Good Riddance !!! Remember, be honest, you might go to bed hungry sometimes but you'll sleep well

[Matthew Steger]

I received a request today from a realtor to remove a specific page from the report for an inspection I did two days ago. I've never met this realtor before this inspection and while the request may be minor, I have a problem with requests like these.

1 - I've already done my inspection and report.
2 - I don't like the idea of being the one to send out two different reports. If they want to omit information, I feel that is their job, not mine. I've already done one report and my work is done.

The thing that's odd is the page she wants omitted really contains nothing of any significance. But for whatever reason they don't want the sellers to receive one specific page and since the report is a PDF file, they cannot alter it.

How do you guys handle requests like this?

If an agent asks you to modify your report, tell him/her to take a flying leap. I don't modify reports for ANYONE other than a typo or some valid reason (Like I find that I made an error).

I only send PDFs to the client and agent. No Word or other editable files that a Realtor (or someone else) can make changes to that MAY came back and bite you in the butt. Your E&O carrier would probably just love to know if you are sending editable reports to the client/agent.

I've had agents ask me to reword a report and I had to tell them 'no'. One Realtor didn't want me to report on solid conductor AL wiring in a home because "he had never heard of it being an issue". I forwarded him the CPSC document on the topic and refused to change the report. I refuse to work with a Realtor to would even ask me to change a report.. serious ethical issue.

[James Duffin]

If an agent asks you to modify your report, tell him/her to take a flying leap. I don't modify reports for ANYONE other than a typo or some valid reason (Like I find that I made an error).

I only send PDFs to the client and agent. No Word or other editable files that a Realtor (or someone else) can make changes to that MAY came back and bite you in the butt. Your E&O carrier would probably just love to know if you are sending editable reports to the client/agent.

I've had agents ask me to reword a report and I had to tell them 'no'. One Realtor didn't want me to report on solid conductor AL wiring in a home because "he had never heard of it being an issue". I forwarded him the CPSC document on the topic and refused to change the report. I refuse to work with a Realtor to would even ask me to change a report.. serious ethical issue.

I hope you don't think a PDF file can not be edited!

[Jerry Peck]

I hope you don't think a PDF file can not be edited!

The difference is that no one has to make any "special effort" to edit a Word or other word processor document; but they do have to make a "special effort" to edit and change a pdf.

I used to send my pdf files with the normal Adobe password protection, and, sure, it could be easily defeated if one wanted to, but that took the same "special effort" to do so, and I could show that I took "reasonable precautions" to reduce the risk of someone tampering with and changing one of my reports.

If some teenager can hack their way into the military computers, yes, any report a home inspector sends out "can" be hacked - all the home inspector needs to is to be able to show "reasonable effort" was made to avoid that from happening.

Once someone else changes a report, they become responsible for the report says as related to any changes which were made, not the home inspector.

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Of course not, but it is one more precaution the inspector can take.

[Dominic Maricic]

I hope you don't think a PDF file can not be edited!

James, not all can. All reports created by our software (Home Inspector Pro) and Whisper Solutions program create encrypted PDF's. You'd have to hack the files to edit them and it's a felony to even try thanks to the DMCA. A few other vendors might have encrypted PDF's too.

[James Duffin]

James, not all can. All reports created by our software (Home Inspector Pro) and Whisper Solutions program create encrypted PDF's. You'd have to hack the files to edit them and it's a felony to even try thanks to the DMCA. A few other vendors might have encrypted PDF's too.

But it can be done if a person has the desire to do so....

[Jim Hintz]

I really don't see what the big issue is - .pdf or word.doc... If you email a report to both the client and the agent, what's the worry unless the buyer doesn't read the report? I also always explain to the client in front of the agent that if the issues are "transcribed" instead of submitted "verbatim" to the opposition, they might not end up with what is prescribed in the report - happens all the time - agent "softens" the repair request......

[Jerry Peck]

create encrypted PDF's. You'd have to hack the files to edit them and it's a felony to even try thanks to the DMCA.

The Adobe pdf are also encrypted, and the simple choice is to use the Standard Encryption and my additional step was to password protect the file - but when I provided my client with the password you know the password goes everywhere the file goes, and, yes, ANY FILE FORMAT CAN BE HACKED, so, as I said in my earlier post:

If some teenager can hack their way into the military computers, yes, any report a home inspector sends out "can" be hacked - all the home inspector needs to is to be able to show "reasonable effort" was made to avoid that from happening.

Once someone else changes a report, they become responsible for the report says as related to any changes which were made, not the home inspector.

Does it matter in the grand scheme of things? Of course not, but it is one more precaution the inspector can take.

What you do is put up a smoke screen, but you can point to that as your efforts to protect the integrity of the file, but you cannot guarantee the integrity of the file after you have given it out.

[Raymond Wand]

The contract is between you the inspector and the purchaser. The purchase agreement is likely worded thusly, "This Offer is conditional upon the inspection of the subject property by a home inspector at the Buyer's own expense, and the obtaining of a report satisfactory to the Buyer in the Buyer's sole and absolute discretion."

Since when does the Realtor have 'sole and absolute discretion' to request removal of a page of a report ? The Realtor is taking discretion out of the contract!

Such a request is undue influence.

[Jerry Martin]

Perhaps there is another end to this. Suppose the realtor's contract with the buyer gives him/her the right to make decisions for the buyer???????????

[James Duffin]

I really don't see what the big issue is - .pdf or word.doc... If you email a report to both the client and the agent, what's the worry unless the buyer doesn't read the report? I also always explain to the client in front of the agent that if the issues are "transcribed" instead of submitted "verbatim" to the opposition, they might not end up with what is prescribed in the report - happens all the time - agent "softens" the repair request......

I agree....you never know what will be done to the report once you send it so making it easy for the agent to C&P means that the way you wrote it has a better chance of getting into the repair request verse the agent having to type it again. The agent is involved whether you like it or not.

[Bob Harper]

Once you submit a document, it becomes a legal document. Consider this term: Forgery is the process of making, adapting, or imitating objects, statistics, or documents with the intent to deceive. Copies, studio replicas, and reproductions are not considered forgeries, though they may later become forgeries through knowing and willful misrepresentations.

Once you have submitted the document then knowingly allow or consent to alteration by others, especially for the expressed purpose to misrepresent facts, it is forgery. The document speaks for itself. Now, you, as the sole author has the right to state in the document that you alone are the ONLY person who may amend the document later. However, that is a tricky proposition because you must have reasonable cause to amend it and you must make full disclosure of the changes to your client.

Now, as for sharing documents, make it clear to YOUR client that they may disseminate it to whomever they wish but admonish them not to alter it. For instance, I frequently get referrals to estimate repairs noted by home inspectors. The client's realtor will send me parts of the document either cut & pasted or paraphrased. I throw it back at them and request the complete document. Why? Because I've been burned where there were other issues contained in the report that were hidden from me that later came up. Luckily, I base my estimates on either my personal inspection or only on the information provided to me.

I've had realtors complain about my report contents and ask me to re-write them. I explain the document stands as is. Realtors get too full of themselves. That's why I never stayed in it even though I held my Broker's license and G.R.I.--I can't stand realtors!

[Nick Ostrowski]

I've had realtors complain about my report contents and ask me to re-write them. I explain the document stands as is. Realtors get too full of themselves. That's why I never stayed in it even though I held my Broker's license and G.R.I.--I can't stand realtors!

GASP!!!! Bob, you used to be one of........THEM???

[Jack Feldmann]

I think it would depend on what was on the page they wanted taken off. It is was a general information blurb I sometimes add to my reports, and had nothing to do with specifics of the inspection, I "might" remove it.
I have stuff about maintenance of attic ladders, cleaning whirlpools, etc that are really generic and add to the report. I wouldn't have a problem dropping those items off the report and give them a fresh PDF.

I have a feeling it wasn't something like that though.

[Gregg Stanley]

I agree with the majority: the client hired me, the client paid me. When I wrap up an inspection, I always tell the client that I will have their report emailed via a link (its the only way I do it.) While I am talking, I also ask the client (right in front of the agent) if it's OK if I CC the Realtor as well.

Now everyone is aware of who gets what. I have been inspecting since July of '06, and have NEVER been asked to remove anything; I think this is because the Realtor hears me say it in front of the client that they are getting CC'd the link, rather than sending it to the Realtor then the client.

Remember...who's going to get the call in three years when something goes wrong at their dream house? The Realtor or the Inspector that "left something out".

Remember who paid for the report.

[Bruce Ramsey]

Only had one request from a realtor to produce an abbreivated report about 5 yrs ago. Her complaint was that she could not cut and paste from the report pdf into her own document.

Told her no.

[Eric Barker]

I have one agent that asks for a Word version of the report so he can C&P into the repair request form he uses. I send it along with the pdf files. This way the agent can modify the report as he see's fit. The buyer gets the pdf file only.

Yikes!

[Randy Aldering]

Once the report is done, the report is done. I don't alter findings, and I don't alter reports. It is what it is.

[Randy Aldering]

This makes me think about a survey that I did some time ago regarding home inspector licensing and secondary issues. Of the respondents that were home inspectors, only 43% correctly identified a known conflict of interest. The number of non-home inspector respondents that properly identified the known conflict of interest was much higher. I thought that was interesting.

[James Duffin]

Yikes!

Why not make it easy for the agent to C&P? They can type anything they want to anyway and the original report is intact so I don't see a problem. I'm sure you tell the agents your buyer asks you to send copies to not to change a word because if they do you will be mad. Once a report is send it is fair game for changes except for yours because you have a super-duper-voodoo curse on your reports that will cause it to self destruct if one word is changed. I knew you were special but I didn't know how special until how!

[Jerry Peck]

I knew you were special but I didn't know how special until how!

Eric isn't the "special" one here, he is on the same page as 99.99% of the home inspectors - create the report and make it so it is used in its entirety and not alterable by others as best you can ... YOU are the "special" one here - you not only don't care if the agent tries to make your report more palatable to the client, you encourage them to do so by sending them a copy, cut and paste file! YIKES is right!

[Raymond Wand]

Any Realtor altering a report or removing pages would be in breach of their professional ethical standards.

[Randy Aldering]

Any Realtor altering a report or removing pages would be in breach of their professional ethical standards.

I know of perhaps one or two real estate agents in the the entire country who would care.

[Marc M]

Typical agent BS

[Ray Babcock]

If an agent asks you to modify your report, tell him/her to take a flying leap. I don't modify reports for ANYONE other than a typo or some valid reason (Like I find that I made an error).

I only send PDFs to the client and agent. No Word or other editable files that a Realtor (or someone else) can make changes to that MAY came back and bite you in the butt. Your E&O carrier would probably just love to know if you are sending editable reports to the client/agent.

I've had agents ask me to reword a report and I had to tell them 'no'. One Realtor didn't want me to report on solid conductor AL wiring in a home because "he had never heard of it being an issue". I forwarded him the CPSC document on the topic and refused to change the report. I refuse to work with a Realtor to would even ask me to change a report.. serious ethical issue.

That happend to me once so I asked the realtor for their license number and her brokers phone number so I could contact TREC to let them know that the realtor was commiting a violation of State Laws and they could run it by their lawyers as well. She very quickly withdrew her request and I never saw her again.

Also, don't rely on PDF as a totally uneditable document. Smart people with the correct software can modify a PDF file. Number pages is a very good idea. Also archive your reports and save on a separate hard drive.

[Jerry Peck]

Also, don't rely on PDF as a totally uneditable document.

No one can rely on any format to provide an uneditable document, the pdf, however, with encryption and password access, does provide evidence that you used reasonable efforts to protect the integrity of the file.

You could even create a pdf graphical image of the file and, with enough effort, one could completely re-write the report.

It's about reasonable effort to protect the file and your report versus giving them a doc file and telling them to re-write it as they see fit - do the latter and you have no defense against someone who re-writes the report to be clear and then you get sued over it.

Also, doing the latter is just plain dumb/stupid/crazy/idiotic/you name it.

[Jerry Martin]

If a document can be printed it can be scanned into a word program and changed any way the person wanted to. ?????????????????

[Jerry Peck]

If a document can be printed it can be scanned into a word program and changed any way the person wanted to. ?????????????????

Yep. We keep saying that. The difference, which we also keep saying, is that one needs to make a special effort to do that to alter the report.

REASONABLE EFFORT to maintain the integrity of the report ...
vs
NO EFFORT to maintain the integrity of the report and to even PROVIDE AN EDITABLE COPY WITH PERMISSION TO EDIT ...

There is a BIG difference between the two - seems like many here think that if one can do something, then give them the keys to the bank ... instead of thinking that if one can rob the bank, you want to try to save the assets (vault, security cameras, dye packs for the money sacks, etc.,) ... don't you guys get the difference between what is being discussed?

[Nick Ostrowski]

I use a software program called Omniform 5.0 for my reports. It allows you to scan or import any document and convert it to a reusable fillable form. It recognizes and converts check boxes and form fields into usable fields. Amazing little program. Anybody could use this same software program to modify a report if they really wanted to.

I can't and won't worry about what somebody tries to alter or change in my reports from the time I click "send" and put the report on it's way. The way I see it, it's going to be harder for somebody to prove their altered version is more legit than my original version.

[Russel Ray]

I've never had to handle a request like that in my ten years of inspecting. I did have one email request to "go easy on this deal" and maybe five verbal requests to go easy. I get a lot of requests to "make sure you find everything."

[Eric Van De Ven]

I use a software program called Omniform 5.0 for my reports. It allows you to scan or import any document and convert it to a reusable fillable form. It recognizes and converts check boxes and form fields into usable fields. Amazing little program. Anybody could use this same software program to modify a report if they really wanted to.

I can't and won't worry about what somebody tries to alter or change in my reports from the time I click "send" and put the report on it's way. The way I see it, it's going to be harder for somebody to prove their altered version is more legit than my original version.

Nothing gets removed unless it was an error.
I have added or expanded on some items in a report at the clients request.

[Barry Lewis]

DO NOT ALTER YOUR REPORT......except for additions or corrections.

I have sent PDF copies to clients and had the Realtor request Pages 1 & 2 of the report....

Sorry, but those pages are unavailable. These pages contain the service agreement with our client and are privileged information.

Our contract stipulates that the client MAY share the report with the agents directly involved with the transaction but they are not beneficiaries of such report. Our client signs an agreement that contains such a confidentiality clause to prevent this type of request.

[Michael Gantt]

... the listing showed the house as being a 1963 ... I told the agent the house was 1940's... She didn't want me to say anything - thought the buyer would lose faith

Funny! Doesn't sound like the buyer should have HAD much faith in her.