Conduct of the President of an Association.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-23-2014, 02:02 PM

I have some information on an association which will remain nameless due to the sensitive salacious nature of the info which is very disturbing. The conduct is troubling since this body is representing it self as a professional body for licencing in Ontario.

Please email if you wish the info.

inforwhis@gmail.com

**Garry Sorrells** · 04-25-2014, 05:55 AM

Not much for whispering behind closed doors, so I will wait till you post your intimations.

Or are you changing your name to Ishmael?

Based on using " salacious " it brings to mind the President that said ""I did not have sexual relations with that woman." or not.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-25-2014, 06:01 AM

While I don't like to direct people to Nachi this is the most disturbing incident. Lack of professionalism and leadership by the president.

Further if you must know I was sent 4 emails where the owner describe the exec. director of CAHPI-BC the same names!

And this association wants to be seen as professional? Its anything but, and anything goes. This same organization is at the licencing table for possible licencing of home inspectors in Ontario.

Further I understand that the so called coveted designation CMI has been given away for free, while others pay full price and others have had the fee discounted.

CAHPI denies permission for a dual member to use InterNACHI's Marketing Dept. - Page 8 - InterNACHI Inspection Forum
Post 116 and 127

**Marc M** · 04-26-2014, 08:02 AM

Is there really a need for these associations? I mean I have NEVER received an inspection from any that I have ever belonged to.. Or are they to give credibility to those without real experience in this trade and / or credibility? Or, they are just a business like any other. All the above?
IMHO, they are collectively all lame.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-26-2014, 09:26 AM

That's the conclusion I have pretty much come to.

Not many of my clients care about association memberships, and I can't say that I have rec'd many inspections as a result of being listed on the find an inspector function.

All my work is a result of networking, referrals, repeat clients and community involvement.

But I know one thing, I would not my professional image being tarnished by a leader who openly shows his contempt, sexism, chauvinism, bullying, and foul language making the whole membership looking like rubes.

**Dan Harris** · 04-27-2014, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

While I don't like to direct people to Nachi this is the most disturbing incident. Lack of professionalism and leadership by the president.

Further if you must know I was sent 4 emails where the owner describe the exec. director of CAHPI-BC the same names!

And this association wants to be seen as professional? Its anything but, and anything goes. This same organization is at the licencing table for possible licencing of home inspectors in Ontario.

Further I understand that the so called coveted designation CMI has been given away for free, while others pay full price and others have had the fee discounted.

CAHPI denies permission for a dual member to use InterNACHI's Marketing Dept. - Page 8 - InterNACHI Inspection Forum
Post 116

As long as there are newbys that want an instant "certificiation" and experienced inspectors that want some one else to speak for them. keep sending him checks he will continue to keep doing the same circus act he's been doing for the past 12 or so years

**Lisa Endza** · 04-27-2014, 11:24 PM

Is there really a need for these associations?

Only if you need or want

All benefits are FREE to members.

**BridgeMan** · 04-28-2014, 12:36 AM

Wow. That's a pretty impressive list of freebies. Where do I sign up?

P.S. I'm not a home inspector. I just like free stuff.

**Garry Sorrells** · 04-28-2014, 03:02 AM

BridgeMan,
You are just use to all of the free stuff that you receive as a U.S. citizen. Free roads, police, army, coastguard, parks, education, government, housing, healthcare, water quality, speech, right to assemble and the list goes on and on and on. All free to its members. Kinda puts Lisa's list to shame doesn't it????

You have to love some of the free stuff listed by Lisa. Saw the free use of the Certified Fire Extinguisher Inspector logo. Which is available after completing the course of :

10-minute training video;
9-page student book (downloadable PDF);
10-question final exam

Looking at this has to make you smile or give a little chuckle, doesn't it???? Aaaaaaah but its only marketing

**Raymond Wand** · 04-28-2014, 03:08 AM

Lisa
Instead of pushing wares here you should be outraged at the use of the language of your boss, but I am sure you are probably use to being referred to by those names.

Shame on you for condoning it.

**Scott Patterson** · 04-28-2014, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by BridgeMan

Wow. That's a pretty impressive list of freebies. Where do I sign up?

P.S. I'm not a home inspector. I just like free stuff.

It's free for $499 a year...

However, I do question the Free Twitter updates!

**Jerry Peck** · 04-28-2014, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Free cartoon strips

All benefits are FREE to members.

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

It's free for $499 a year...

It's only $499 to become a "member", then it's all FREE ... I especially like the freebie above.

Kind of like 'buy one, get one free' ... the second one is not "free" - both are "half-price".

Sooo, if you take all the freebies and divide by $499, the membership is worth, what, maybe 4 bucks?

**Lon Henderson** · 04-28-2014, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by Marc M

Is there really a need for these associations? I mean I have NEVER received an inspection from any that I have ever belonged to.. Or are they to give credibility to those without real experience in this trade and / or credibility? Or, they are just a business like any other. All the above?
IMHO, they are collectively all lame.

I am a member of NAHI. It's not my church. It's just a professional association. About five times a year, some client will ask me if I am a member of ASSI or ASH or ASHI. They are satisfied with my response and we move on.

On the national level, the benefits of membership are so-so. But the benefit of membership in NAHI is our local chapter. We have a very good chapter and the sharing of information, education and experience has been beneficial. I recommend joining an association if you have an active local chapter.

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 03:12 PM

Membership in InterNACHI is $499. Everything else, including access to all the education, the marketing, the business success tools, etc CLICK HERE AND SCROLL! is totally free to members. The days of associations charging dues for little more than logo usage are long gone. Inspectors aren't stupid.

Wow. That's a pretty impressive list of freebies. Where do I sign up?

HERE.

**Scott Patterson** · 04-28-2014, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Membership in InterNACHI is $499. Everything else, including access to all the education, the marketing, the business success tools, etc CLICK HERE AND SCROLL! is totally free to members. The days of associations charging dues for little more than logo usage are long gone. Inspectors aren't stupid.

HERE.

That is what was posted.... It is free with the $499 membership. Without the membership of $499 it is not free.. Kind of false advertising if you say it is free without the caveat of the $499 membership.

Why not just say that for $499 you get all of the listed benefits.....

**Raymond Wand** · 04-28-2014, 03:44 PM

Why pay anything when you can get free membership and a free CMI to boot?
Nothing is free and its false to suggest its all free, well at least its free for those who don't have to pay.
Inspectors are stupid, at least those which will take a free membership or CMI thus devaluing those that paid full price.

At least I know with ASHI members are vetted and the management doesn't call competing association executives the names I read on Nachi, nor do the executive send out emails using the same terms.

Of course Nachi is not an association and therein lies the difference. Privately owned and lack of ethics is the benchmark.

**Garry Sorrells** · 04-28-2014, 03:58 PM

No mater what the cost to join nor whether there is any value/substance in what is offered, the question that was raised is the conduct of the head of the organization. The actions of a leader can be transferred to its members by acceptance of those actions by those members. Consequently the the members will be judged accordingly in that light.

Then there is the issue of personal ethics and values.

I spent decades impressing on my children that you are judged by those who you associate with.

The demeanor that the NACHI president exhibited does not come as a surprise in light of other statements he has made. Granted as owner/dictator of his own company/organization he has every right to act in any manor that pleases him. The question that seemed to be raised is the tacit acceptance by its members silence raises the issue of the groups ethics.

I surmise that Raymond, rightly so, takes issue with the character of someone that is working to gain influence in his country's Home Inspection industry. And seems to question the lack of indignation by the comments that have been made.

Again is the silence a tacit approval? If so why?

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 04:25 PM

Silent? Oh, he's hardly silent about it or anything else. In fact, he started the thread.

Our Inspector Marketing Department designs logos and brochures for all our members for free and another association is not happy with us providing these for free to their members who are also members of InterNACHI.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-28-2014, 04:32 PM

Garry

I am very disappointed in several members of Nachi whom I know personally and who I converse with. I went back recently as a student on Nachi in order to discuss licencing in Ontario since there doesn't appear to be any interest on this forum. It didn't take very long before I was attacked. The forum rules are for appearance sake only, and not enforced, there are no rules and there is no discipline process, its conducted on the open forum, without due process. Its a joke, which leads me to wonder how the public can have any faith in Nachi if there is no proper protocol for dealing with complaints.

Fwiw, I no longer wish to converse or associate with them and no longer call them friends.

I also understand that CMI is being sold up here and taxes are not being collected and remitted to the government.

One franchise owner was offered CMI for $1000, and when he inquired about the Harmonized Sales Tax (13%) on the $1K fee was told to subtract 13% off the quoted thousand dollar fee!

Revenue Canada would not like to hear this fact.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-28-2014, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Silent? Oh, he's hardly silent about it or anything else. In fact, he started the thread.

Our Inspector Marketing Department designs logos and brochures for all our members for free and another association is not happy with us providing these for free to their members who are also members of InterNACHI.

Okay so that gives Nick and a few others the right to call her what they did? How is that explainable?
Shame on you coming here and defending it. You are no better than your boss. How would you like it if I called you those names on a public forum simply because you are here pushing wares in order to try and divert the real issue? You and your boss are no better then Donald Sterling.

**Garry Sorrells** · 04-28-2014, 05:52 PM

Lisa,
"Silent" refereed to the NACHI members not its president. It does seem that some, at least 2, have a dissenting view of the statements made by both the president and association members.

From Internachi Forum:
Frank Carrio,CMI
Post # 102
“…..If I were a government official or a member CAPHI who is reading this thread and seeing all the vile and vulgar comments on this thread I would think long and hard about doing any business with InterNachi! I would consider the vulgar comments to be a "representation on the heart and mentality of this Association" and as a government employee or a member of CAPHI I would immediately distance myself from this Association.”

From CAHPI denies permission for a dual member to use InterNACHI's Marketing Dept. - Page 7 - InterNACHI Inspection Forum http://www.nachi.org/forum/f48/cahpi-denies-permission-dual-member-use-international-association-certified-home-inspectorss-marketing-dept-90586/index7.html#ixzz30EfEMEAf

And Dan Levia, CMI seems to agree.

Though vocally they sadly seem to be a minority.

**Scott Patterson** · 04-28-2014, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Garry

I also understand that CMI is being sold up here and taxes are not being collected and remitted to the government.

One franchise owner was offered CMI for $1000, and when he inquired about the Harmonized Sales Tax (13%) on the $1K fee was told to subtract 13% off the quoted thousand dollar fee!

Revenue Canada would not like to hear this fact.

Really! INACHI is not paying the Harmonized Sales Tax to the Canadian government! Well that's not good.. Maybe they don't think that need to do it since they are a USA corporation.

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 06:47 PM

Okay so that gives Nick and a few others the right to call her what they did?

I would think his name for her is trivial and the least of her concerns. He's been on the phone all day trying to get her ousted from her position.

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 06:54 PM

"Silent" refereed to the InterNACHI members not its president.

I'm a female who holds a similar position so I'm sympathetic. I'm called the "B" word now and then, when a man would be called "tough." But I don't think the more than 30,000 members he has renewing their InterNACHI membership year after year care. They love him. I will say this. She is harming her association by forcing our dual members to choose one association or the other because when you force dual members to pick one or the other, 90% or more pick InterNACHI. I don't agree with calling her names but I also don't agree with her actions.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-28-2014, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

I would think his name for her is trivial. He's been on the phone all day trying to get her ousted from her position.

Alan Carson was not impressed with what transpired. Your boss has and is burning bridges big time.
CAHPI BC members are not stupid, and you coming here and trying to infer that she should lose her job over long standing policy is just bloody stupid. CAHPI did not ask Nachi to print anything for them.

Nick is a user, just as he uses others, he is now using you to make excuses on his behalf. I really thought you were smarter, but its apparent you're just the puppet here doing Nicks dirty work.

MCS has been notified of the content of the private emails and the public denouncement of the executive with such vulgar derogatory terms, by someone who claims Nachi is a professional body. Thanks for proving otherwise and trying to trivialize the matter. Unbelievable.

I understand Nick writes all your replies too.

I bet Ms. Barton is not going to be ousted by Nick, he can't push his weight around up here, this is Canada, and we are not taking orders from you or anyone else who resorts to making these comments and then passing them off as trivial.

Keep going because you are digging a hole you won't be able to escape from.

Oh btw I understand another Ontario inspector was given his CMI gratis. How come others are being charged $2500?

Ted Menelly · 04-28-2014, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Patterson

That is what was posted.... It is free with the $499 membership. Without the membership of $499 it is not free.. Kind of false advertising if you say it is free without the caveat of the $499 membership.

Why not just say that for $499 you get all of the listed benefits.....

I have no argument with anyone about associations as i do not and will not belong to one as long as I am in a licensed state that requires hundreds of hours of schooling and mandatory CEUs, their own SOPs and their own ethics.

After saying all that

Scott. Thank you very much. Would it not be just as easy to market and much more ethical to say if you pay us $500.00 a year you have access to all these goodies.

No, it is not free. It was almost all free to have been put together by many individuals but must be bought by the members under the mother marketing corporation to access it..

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 08:17 PM

It was almost all free to have been put together by many individuals but must be bought by the members under the mother marketing corporation to access it..

It's not though. We have 25 well-paid employees who maintain and continue to add to this long, long list Membership Benefits We've spent millions of dollars on some of these membership benefits. The members don't pay additionally for them. They come free with membership.

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 08:25 PM

i do not and will not belong to one as long as I am in a licensed state that requires hundreds of hours of schooling and mandatory CEUs

Why not? The mandatory CEUs required by your state of Texas can be acquired online, for no extra charge if you are a member of InterNACHI. Texas

Same for Scott Patterson in Tennessee. Tennessee

Who pays for home inspector education anymore? It's 2014.

Ted Menelly · 04-28-2014, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Why not? The mandatory CEUs required by your state of Texas can be acquired online, for no extra charge if you are a member of InterNACHI. Texas

Same for Scott Patterson in Tennessee. Tennessee

Who pays for continuing education anymore? It's 2014.

for 1000 dollars. 2 years of dues. I can sit in a class room to get those hours needed. Anything else I read up on. Update myself. Don't have to follow another set of guidelines and rules. We already have our own.

I have absolutely no need to be a member of you corporation.

Thanks anyway.

Ted Menelly · 04-28-2014, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

It's not though. We have 25 well-paid employees who maintain and continue to add to this long, long list Membership Benefits We've spent millions of dollars on some of these membership benefits. The members don't pay additionally for them. They come free with membership.

Also. Your members paid for. Not you

They are not free

It requires a 500 dollar membership.

The members are paying for the benefits you keep on saying you are paying for.

Again. It is not free.

You can say free and you are spending until you are blue in the face.

It is not free. The members and the vendors pay for everything.

How can something be free that you are paying dollars for.

The fee is a membership

The membership is 500 per year.

I guess none of it is free.

Enough said. I say all the time.

Nothing is free. You will pay for it one way or another.

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 08:40 PM

I can sit in a class room to get those hours needed.

LOL. You can sit on your couch in your pajamas at InterNACHI. Free Inspector Training and Education

Anything else I read up on.

No you can't. You can't benefit from any of our many, free marketing programs by simply reading. You can't get listed on our inspector search engines for free Directory of Inspectors You can't get your logo designed for free Logos You can't get your brochures designed for free Brochures You can't get click-thrus to your website for free Inspection Leads And on and on.

**Lisa Endza** · 04-28-2014, 08:50 PM

Ted, I see your logic. InterNACHI members pay to join and then all the other free membership benefits such as all of our free state-approved inspection courses are at no additional cost. So using your logic, when ASHI charges to join and then charges additionally for education, you are accusing them of double-charging their members, right? I think you are on to something. I agree with you.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-29-2014, 03:12 AM

This is about the leader of your pathetic organization labelling a lady objectionable names.

And lets keep the record straight, its also pathetic that YOU Lisa are suggesting that InterNachi is somehow superior then CAHPI and that CAHPI somehow some way is responsible for printing CAHPI marketing materials.

The real issue here is not about InterNachi marketing, its about Nachi not even being recognized in BC for licencing purposes. So where does Nick think he can act and talk like he has authorization or the right when in fact its only a few InterNachi members complaining? There is no logic in the argument, and there is not excuse for you being here defending and making excuses.

Its clear Lisa you don't even appreciate the issue and as a director of communications you should be here apologizing on behalf your membership.

Of course only one or two you your members would have the gaul to say anything because they will be bullied for speaking up. Bullying and put downs are certainly FREE and part of the $499.

However as usual you refuse to discuss the fact that CMI and Nachi memberships are being given away free while others pay through the nose. So yes there are many benefits being given for free while others are paying for so called free benefits.

Your logic on a variety fronts is illogical. You need a better script writer.

**Lisa Endza** · 04-29-2014, 07:53 AM

Ray, you don't understand the issue at all. InterNACHI's Inspector Marketing Department, because it provides all the logo and brochure design work for free, designs and prints most of the brochures for inspectors in our industry in both the U.S and Canada. Some of these brochures are for inspectors who belong to more than one association and want all of their association logos on their brochures, which our designers include for them. CAHPI prohibits this.

I have nothing to do with CMI but I know for certain that you can't get your Certified Master Inspector designation for free. That is impossible. Someone pays the one-time, lifetime fee. It may be the franchisor or a vendor, or the business owner, or Nick, but someone pays it.

You are right about InterNACHI. You can join InterNACHI for 6 months for free, access all our education and benefits, cancel anytime and pay nothing. If anyone reading this wants to take me up on my offer to allow you to join for free, email fastreply@nachi.org and I'll give you a free membership. If you want to be a certified member listed on all our inspector search sites such as InspectorSeek.com you still have to complete our membership requirements which are also free, once you join for free. If you only want access to our free inspector education, say so in the email and I will give you an invisible student membership for free. There are no requirements to remain a student.

If you are not sure you want to join for free but want Nick's latest 256-page book "How to Run a Successful Home Inspection Business," email fastreply@nachi.org and ask for it and I'll send it to you for free.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-29-2014, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Ray, you don't understand the issue at all. InterNACHI's Inspector Marketing Department, because it provides all the logo and brochure design work for free, designs and prints most of the brochures for inspectors in our industry in both the U.S and Canada. Some of these brochures are for inspectors who belong to more than one association and want all of their association logos on their brochures, which our designers include for them. CAHPI prohibits this.

I have nothing to do with CMI but I know for certain that you can't get your Certified Master Inspector designation for free. That is impossible. Someone pays the one-time, lifetime fee. It may be the franchisor or a vendor, or the business owner, or Nick, but someone pays it.

You are right about InterNACHI. You can join InterNACHI for 6 months for free, access all our education and benefits, cancel anytime and pay nothing. If anyone reading this wants to take me up on my offer to allow you to join for free, email fastreply@nachi.org and I'll give you a free membership. The fee is the only thing free. If you want to be a certified member listed on all our inspector search sites such as InspectorSeek.com you still have to fulfill the membership requirements once you join for free.

If you are not sure you want to join for free but want Nick's latest 256-page book "How to Run a Successful Home Inspection Business," email fastreply@nachi.org and ask for it and I'll send it to you for free.

InterNachi is not recognized in BC for good reason, so your meandering meaningless propaganda has no relevance. Its not any different then CAHP telling InterNachi what to do.

Lisa, I know for a fact several who have got free CMI designation while others pay full price, so you should check your facts. Claude Lawrenson and Bill Mullen, Roy Cooke, to name just three!

Why would I want a book from a bigot? Nick told me to get lost, so thats what I did. To paraphrase the line from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre:

I don't need no stinking InterNachi Marketing materials!

How long do you intend to parlay Nicks fairytales on marketing and everything else he spins and support his bigotry?

**Lisa Endza** · 04-29-2014, 08:31 AM

Ray, you're incorrect on all your statements except the first half of this one.

Nick told me to get lost, so thats what I did.

**Raymond Wand** · 04-29-2014, 08:40 AM

Liza

I have passed on this thread to CAHPI BC so they can see first hand the utter nonsense of your replies.

Once again I repeat, free memberships, free CMI's, while others paid through the nose. Two tier memberships.

**Garry Sorrells** · 05-01-2014, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

Ok guys all I did was put up this on LinkedIn.
Library of Inspection Articles - InterNACHI
Start reading and when you are done I will give you more OK.
.....

Well I will see you your link and raise you InspectAPedia.com - Building & Indoor Environment Problem Diagnosis & Repair

InspectAPedia.com - free online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice, including all residential & light commercial building components, materials, & mechanical systems. Illustrated, detailed, in-depth research on finding, diagnosing, testing, correcting, & preventing building defects, energy conservation, & indoor environmental hazards. Research on building failures & education course material on building failures & building environmental inspection testing, diagnosis, & repair. © Copyright 2014 InspectApedia.com

Now that is free

As usual the thread had moved away from the OP and moved to blathering and semantics of word and deed.

Free is a relative term to the one that is using it and how they want to re-interpenetrate concepts.

Returning to the OP

Being Presidential no longer means much to the world of tweeting and bloggers. Like many things there has been an erosion of societal value and the ability to maintain proper decorum in civil discourse. Yet, like Raymond, there are those that will still stand up and say you are wrong and you do not exemplify good leadership. Notwithstanding the efforts to rebuke the individual that chose to rise to the occasion. It seems that there is to frequently a cry to misdirect or confuscate a topic. Which has happened again. With the world of paying to be free...

**Raymond Wand** · 05-01-2014, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

Ok guys all I did was put up this on LinkedIn.
Library of Inspection Articles - InterNACHI
Start reading and when you are done I will give you more OK.
I am not saying I condone what has happened I am saying that given the circumstance of her stance she needs to be removed like a bad cancer. I also am very upset with ventures from InterNachi connected Associations from bully actions that will not be revealed here. Some are not even worthy to walk in the path of greatness. Since I can say without question that the articles are well written and corrected on occasion I am happy to have anyone scrutinize them for mistakes and Ben will correct them. When I see this much work done for the Public I will also join the other Association.
I would say that should get Cahpi BC moving. What you say?

I am not saying I condone what has happened I am saying that given the circumstance of her stance she needs to be removed like a bad cancer.

You are contradicting yourself. You can't condone the the vulgar names on a public forum and then in the same breath you call her a cancer? Its none of your biz nor that of InterNachi all over a logo?

Where is the leadership, where is the morality, where is the role model? Why is the Director of Communications here avoiding the issues and pushing more marketing crap?

We are not talking about marketing materials the fact is; serious issues remain by an inept group of people who think they can direct another private body to do as they say. Clean up your own house first.

No reply necessary.

**Garry Sorrells** · 05-01-2014, 09:38 AM

I apologize, but a thought came to mind.

Disney has spent 100s of millions of dollars, maybe billions, to create parks that upon entry all of the entertainment is free.

Except that you have to pay to get in to the part to take benefit of the FREE entertainment..

Raising the question, is if free or was it paid for?

Oh, Disney continues to add benefits to its free entertainment thus expanding the value of FREE...!!!...???

Sorry again......

**Harry Janssen** · 05-01-2014, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

I have some information on an association which will remain nameless due to the sensitive salacious nature of the info which is very disturbing. The conduct is troubling since this body is representing it self as a professional body for licencing in Ontario.

Please email if you wish the info.

inforwhis@gmail.com

Is there any thing any were on any inspector web site,Mr Wand does not have an opinion on,guess not,he seems to be knowledgeable,and has opinions on every thing,no matter how wrong his facts are.

**Raymond Wand** · 05-01-2014, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Harry Janssen

Is there any thing any were on any inspector web site,Mr Wand does not have an opinion on,guess not,he seems to be knowledgeable,and has opinions on every thing,no matter how wrong his facts are.

Harry care to point out where my facts are wrong?

Or are you talking about my facts about when you were president of OAHI $60K was absconded under your nose and the police weren't called, or the money never repaid?

Or are you talking about the facts OAHI had to chase you for misuse of RHI even though you were not a member for over a year?

Last time I checked this is a discussion board and your bitterness has long followed me. If you don't like the discussion then don't read it.

Have you suddenly become a Nachi member or did you buy a CMI.

**Raymond Wand** · 05-01-2014, 01:44 PM

Kevin wrote in part.

Yes I can and will call her a Cancer. This is about full control of Home Inspectors and that is like a Cancer to me.
If interNachi did the same now I would be gone from them in a heartbeat.

What you fail to realize is that unlike InterNachi which is a dictatorship where the members have no say, no vote, no bylaws, no financial accountability, and is privately held entity, CAHPI has a democratically elected board of directors and the members have share capital, in which the members can call for change to bylaws and policy and vote for their directors or vote them out. Therefore whether you think the CEO of CAHPI-BC is a cancer or not your comments are irrelevant and moot. Thats what the members want and have directed their elected body to do - that is a policy to keep any other entity logos off members business cards and marketing material.

Further it is not about CAHPI-BC having full control and has no design or need to control the profession since there are 4 entities (associations) the government recognizes for licencing in BC.

Sorry you can't understand democracy and the wishes of the members out in BC, your calling out the CEO as the reason (a cancer) is not in any way shape or form logical or legit. So your gun sight is badly skewed, but then again when one has been brainwashed this is what I would expect. Keep drinking the Cool-Aid, its effects are working.

**Harry Janssen** · 05-01-2014, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Harry care to point out where my facts are wrong?

Or are you talking about my facts about when you were president of OAHI $60K was absconded under your nose and the police weren't called, or the money never repaid?

Or are you talking about the facts OAHI had to chase you for misuse of RHI even though you were not a member for over a year?

Last time I checked this is a discussion board and your bitterness has long followed me. If you don't like the discussion then don't read it.

Have you suddenly become a Nachi member or did you buy a CMI.

No point in pointing out any thing Mr Wand,as always you have all the facts,no matter how wrong,,I will not even try to debate with you any thing you stated,it is pointless,if any one wants to discuss your claims,I will refer them to to you,Good night,now go back to sleep.

**Raymond Wand** · 05-01-2014, 02:11 PM

Thank you Harry for moving along.

I didn't think you could debate facts, nor wish to.

Ted Menelly · 05-01-2014, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

I apologize, but a thought came to mind.

Disney has spent 100s of millions of dollars, maybe billions, to create parks that upon entry all of the entertainment is free.

Except that you have to pay to get in to the part to take benefit of the FREE entertainment..

Raising the question, is if free or was it paid for?

Oh, Disney continues to add benefits to its free entertainment thus expanding the value of FREE...!!!...???

Sorry again......

And you have to pay to park before you pay to get into the free goodies in the park. But it is all for free..

Disney is not a non ah hum profit association. Disney pays out of total income to update those free goodies, that you pay for that of course are free. The non ah hum profit association pays for everything they give away for free by spending the money that the members of the association and the vendors pay them for being members and vendors.

You also get a "free" 6 inches of insulation when you pay to have installed a radiant barrier, from most companies. We all know it is not for free because a radiant barrier cost a lot of money and the profit is great to the company installing it. So is it free???? Or is it not????

Now really. Forget all that. My curiosity peaks when ever I see someone say something about a particular association that association immediately starts attacking other associations when it was not about any other association anyway.

And again forget about all that, I am just voicing in an opinion and I have belonged to 2 of those associations in the past and do not belong to either one now.

**Ken Rowe** · 05-01-2014, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by Garry Sorrells

I apologize, but a thought came to mind.

Disney has spent 100s of millions of dollars, maybe billions, to create parks that upon entry all of the entertainment is free.

Except that you have to pay to get in to the part to take benefit of the FREE entertainment..

Raising the question, is if free or was it paid for?

Oh, Disney continues to add benefits to its free entertainment thus expanding the value of FREE...!!!...???

Sorry again......

Disney doesn't advertise, "Come ride our rides for free". Unlike Inachi where they advertise, "Come use our education, it's all free", when it really isn't. That's the snake oil salesman talking. Kind of like a seller disclosing, "The basement was finished by a professional and all the permits were pulled", when in reality the basement was finished by a professional dog groomer and permits were pulled but never closed. Buyer be ware.

**Trent Tarter** · 05-02-2014, 12:07 AM

In 8 years I have never been asked by a client or Realtor if I am a member of any type of Home Inspector Association. I've been a member of two of the main associations. I found very little benefit. Most of the so called "free benefits" are what you would expect for free, which is not much. In my opinion it's all a bunch of marketing hype.

**Dan Harris** · 05-02-2014, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin Wood

I am really trying to wrap my head around your guys logic.
, under that membership they offer over 50,000.00 in benefit, I have heard it is up to around $75000.00.
.

LOL<<< There are some very gullible, and confused people is this world.

**Lisa Endza** · 05-02-2014, 09:08 AM

Trent, I see that you are in Washington State. I don't want to bore you by going through all 100,000+ of InterNACHI's membership benefits, so I'll limit my response to education in your state of Washington.

InterNACHI's free online courses are approved for continuing education of home inspectors in Washington State by the Washington State Home Inspector Licensing Board so that you don't have to ever pay to sit in a classroom Washington State Home Inspector Licensing Board Approves InterNACHI's Free, Online Courses - InterNACHI

InterNACHI's free online WDO course is also approved by the Washington Department of Agriculture Washington State approves InterNACHI's free online Wood-Destroying Organism course. - InterNACHI

InterNACHI's free online courses are also approve for real estate agents and brokers in Washington State so that the agents and brokers you work with never have to pay to sit in a classroom. Agents in your state can simply enter YOUR InterNACHI member ID # and complete all their required courses for free The State of Washington's Department of Licensing Approves InterNACHI as a School for Licensed Real Estate Professionals - InterNACHI Even the marketing pieces to alert your agents that they can stop paying to sit in classrooms are free Free Washington Real Estate Agent Marketing Cards (Pack of 50) THINK ABOUT HOW AMAZING THIS IS and how it could help your business.

Members in your state also get all this Inspector Membership Benefits - InterNACHI

That's why we have so many members in your state Washington Home Inspectors - Find a Home Inspector - InterNACHI

**Steven Turetsky** · 05-02-2014, 12:56 PM

I make a point to stay out of the "Association Squabble" because I find it boring, childish, such a waste of time, hurtful to some really good people and especially hurtful to the profession, but a friend asked me to comment and here I am.

I know good (and bad) inspectors that from each association and some are members of more than one. Personally I am a member of no Home Inspector Association, but if I was; I would probably be one of the guys who joined more than one simply because they each have something different to offer.

I want no part of the fracas.

@ Ray, I must be honest with you; I have read your posts and consider you a professional. I visited your website and was equally impressed, but I am so puzzled how "consumed" you are with this vendetta against INACHI and Nick. I don't know what he did to you, and I must tell you that I agree with some of you thoughts and lost all respect for the word "Certified", but geez, let it go man. There are so many more things in life that you can enjoy and get involved with. Is Nick really so important to you? Perhaps you should separate the two. Nick may be the Devil in disguise, but I believe he built something impressive, and most of his members are happy with the operation. If not they would leave. Why don't they leave if it is so bad?

If he said something out of order about someone; shame on him. But what goes around comes around. Besides, this thread isn't even about that anymore. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass.

If I remember correctly, you once said that the continued education and resourses offered by INACHI was the best. I never really followed their courses, and am only somewhat familiar with their EIFS course, which I think is excellent for every Home Inspector. (by the way Lisa; you once offered to send me a link to the EIFS course and if the offer still stands, I would love to see it).

As far as INACHI being a dictatorship because it is not run by a board of directors, well as my older brother told me more than once; "You can't argue with success". So he must be doing something right, as can be determined by the numbers.

Regarding the courses (etc) not being free because you must be a paid member, well, does anybody really expect INACHI to give the courses free without paid membership? Just yesterday I was at McDonalds and there are big signs that read "Buy 1 Big Mac and get one for free". I saw one at the gas station that said "Free car wash with fill up". Is business so slow that we have nothing better to do than argue for... days, on semantics?

What about the guys who provide "Free Termite Inspections" with Home Inspections? Are they lying? If so, and someone does not need a termite inspection should they get a refund?

In my opinion the INACHI courses/resources are free, because dues is the same whether you take 100 courses or none. Are there ANY associations that offer free courses and free membership? Or any that offer free membership?

Anyway, I would love to hear from guys that are members of an association and are happy/unhappy with it (and why). Do you think you are getting your money's worth? STAND UP AND BE HEARD!

**Trent Tarter** · 05-02-2014, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Lisa Endza

Trent, I see that you are in Washington State. I don't want to bore you by going through all 100,000+ of InterNACHI's membership benefits, so I'll limit my response to education in your state of Washington.

InterNACHI's free online courses are approved for continuing education of home inspectors in Washington State by the Washington State Home Inspector Licensing Board so that you don't have to ever pay to sit in a classroom Washington State Home Inspector Licensing Board Approves InterNACHI's Free, Online Courses - InterNACHI

InterNACHI's free online WDO course is also approved by the Washington Department of Agriculture Washington State approves InterNACHI's free online Wood-Destroying Organism course. - InterNACHI

InterNACHI's free online courses are also approve for real estate agents and brokers in Washington State so that the agents and brokers you work with never have to pay to sit in a classroom. Agents in your state can simply enter YOUR InterNACHI member ID # and complete all their required courses for free The State of Washington's Department of Licensing Approves InterNACHI as a School for Licensed Real Estate Professionals - InterNACHI Even the marketing pieces to alert your agents that they can stop paying to sit in classrooms are free Free Washington Real Estate Agent Marketing Cards (Pack of 50) THINK ABOUT HOW AMAZING THIS IS and how it could help your business.

Members in your state also get all this Inspector Membership Benefits - InterNACHI

That's why we have so many members in your state Washington Home Inspectors - Find a Home Inspector - InterNACHI

I was once a member, no need to tell me about all the benefits. I have used the continuing education courses before. I would rather just pay for better continuing education courses that may actually teach me something new.

**Marcel Gratton** · 05-02-2014, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

InterNachi is not recognized in BC for good reason, so your meandering meaningless propaganda has no relevance. Its not any different then CAHP telling InterNachi what to do.

Lisa, I know for a fact several who have got free CMI designation while others pay full price, so you should check your facts. Claude Lawrenson and Bill Mullen, Roy Cooke, to name just three!

Why would I want a book from a bigot? Nick told me to get lost, so thats what I did. To paraphrase the line from The Treasure of the Sierra Madre:

I don't need no stinking InterNachi Marketing materials!

How long do you intend to parlay Nicks fairytales on marketing and everything else he spins and support his bigotry?

Are you sure that Roy Cooke, a well respected homie, got his CMI for free?

To this day, he claims that he paid for it...

**Raymond Wand** · 05-02-2014, 05:45 PM

Marcel,

I stand corrected, Roy did pay for it, I think it was approx. $300 some odd dollars.

- - - Updated - - -

In reply to Steven T.

@ Ray, I must be honest with you; I have read your posts and consider you a professional. I visited your website and was equally impressed, but I am so puzzled how "consumed" you are with this vendetta against INACHI and Nick. I don't know what he did to you, and I must tell you that I agree with some of you thoughts and lost all respect for the word "Certified", but geez, let it go man. There are so many more things in life that you can enjoy and get involved with. Is Nick really so important to you? Perhaps you should separate the two. Nick may be the Devil in disguise, but I believe he built something impressive, and most of his members are happy with the operation. If not they would leave. Why don't they leave if it is so bad?

Steven, thanks for the feedback, I think you are right with your comments. Having been involved with bringing Nachi into Ontario way back when I believed at the time we in Ontario needed options, but as time went on I could see the short comings and the lack of respect for other members. Since I am a long time believer of a democratic process I could see the shortcomings of a sole owner, non-association, marketing business. Maybe you can not appreciate a democratic process in an association since you state you do not belong to any association. Further having experienced consensus based committees and serving on other boards of directors which are elected bodies I think I understand the process as to the reasons why it functions better and many times may not. Nor have I ever seen anyone talk in the terms referencing another bodies CEO in the terminology used by an owner of an non-association.

As to your suggestion if NG has built something impressive why don’t members leave, well they have, but how would you know since you are not privy to the private sections where InterNachi members have questioned the CMI or other business interests or whom NG associates with? I know several people who have left, and it’s easy not to question the hype we have often seen dispensed on this forum by some of its members. Do you believe everything you read? I don’t and I will question it as many have on this forum.

I take exception to your suggesting that there are other things in life that I can become involved in. Firstly you don’t know anything about other things I am involved with. These include volunteering at the hospital with their annual gala event, donating monies to the hospital, conservation projects, hobby farming, since I live on a major river and have 4 acres of class one wetlands and managed forest I am an nurturer of my environ, advisor to two private trusts, recently having served on my village association board of directors, and have recently been asked to run for municipal council (which I declined and I don’t need the grief and time spent going to meeting after meeting), and one of my most recent projects I have been asked to MC an annual golf tournament which raises over $100k annually for various charities. Therefore, my plate is full thank you.

Yes I have my detractors and supporters, but I am not dissuade simply because someone and very few at that don’t like it. Again no one forces anyone to read the posts here. No one asked for you to enter the fracas but you have simply by posting your thoughts.

If he said something out of order about someone; shame on him. But what goes around comes around. Besides, this thread isn't even about that anymore. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass.

I think you do give a rats ass. And what goes around has come around on this forum. Simple. Its easy not to say anything, easier to say nothing and go with the flow. This thread is about the matter I first introduced but sidetracked and now sidetracked by you.

If I remember correctly, you once said that the continued education and resourses offered by INACHI was the best. I never really followed their courses, and am only somewhat familiar with their EIFS course, which I think is excellent for every Home Inspector.

Yes I said Nachi online courses are good, But I don't ever remember using the word 'great'. But yes they are good, my problem is they think their courses are the end all and be all and then go to great lengths to suggest that they are free, put thousands of dollar value on them which I believe to be over inflated hype. As we have established here they are not free. Simple. Maybe a few more associations should emulate what InterNachi has achieved on that vane. But that’s where the uniqueness stops.

As far as INACHI being a dictatorship because it is not run by a board of directors, well as my older brother told me more than once; "You can't argue with success". So he must be doing something right, as can be determined by the numbers.

I think you are brainwashed. 'Do something right' is your defintion, that’s fine but I don’t suffer fools gladly either. And there are many instances where people have been threatened with legal action for also telling the truth about the short comings retribution based on bullying because someone has a record of bullying and stymieing the truth. But you would not know that because you are not privy to closed association forums to know that where its been discussed.

Anyway I will try to do better in an attempt to placate you, and I think I have succeeded in bringing to light the matters I thought important. I am impassioned and wear my heart on my sleeve.

I have 60 plus likes so I must being doing something right on this forum.

Thanks for your candid opinions, I appreciate you being able to share them as I have shared my views with you.

**Marcel Gratton** · 05-02-2014, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Marcel,

I stand corrected, Roy did pay for it, I think it was approx. $300 some odd dollars.

- - - Updated - - -.

Raymond,

Could it also be possible that you were mistaken about Bill M and Claude L getting their CMI's designation for free?

**Raymond Wand** · 05-02-2014, 06:13 PM

Nope no mistake there.

**Marcel Gratton** · 05-02-2014, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Nope no mistake there.

*Lisa, I know for a fact several who have got free CMI designation while others pay full price, so you should check your facts. Claude Lawrenson and Bill Mullen, Roy Cooke, to name just three!*

It appears that you should check you facts about who got free CMI designation and who relinquished them!

**Raymond Wand** · 05-02-2014, 06:56 PM

Yes Marcel you should check your facts.

Relinquished the CMI's because they knew there was no value, since there were no checks and balances at the time. Why wouldn't someone give back something that had no value?

The fact remains that others have bought them for less than the current rate and others got them free and others have been offered substantial discounts.

What did you pay?

**Marcel Gratton** · 05-02-2014, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Yes Marcel you should check your facts.

Relinquished the CMI's because they knew there was no value, since there were no checks and balances at the time. Why wouldn't someone give back something that had no value?

The fact remains that others have bought them for less than the current rate and others got them free and others have been offered substantial discounts.

What did you pay?

Raymond,

You should practice what you preach!

Why did Roy Cooke and his wife not relinquished their free CMI designation since there was no value, checks and balances as you stated?

I paid the current rate at time of application.

**Raymond Wand** · 05-02-2014, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Marcel Gratton

Raymond,

You should practice what you preach!

Why did Roy Cooke and his wife not relinquished their free CMI designation since there was no value, checks and balances as you stated?

I paid the current rate at time of application.

How should I know, ask them!

Strange how many members of Nachi think its a phony designation and won't have any part of it. So yes practice what you preach about its value and authenticity.

**Marcel Gratton** · 05-02-2014, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

How should I know, ask them!

Strange how many members of Nachi think its a phony designation and won't have any part of it. So yes practice what you preach about its value and authenticity.

Roy Cooke claims that being a CMI's is the best thing since slice bread!

Cheers,

**ROBERT YOUNG** · 05-03-2014, 05:37 AM

I am going to make several points Raymond.

The CMI designation trade mark was established by Roy Cooke.

!: If you have something to say about the CMI then please allow him to defend it.

Every Certified Master Inspector® must:

have completed 1,000 fee-paid inspections and/or hours of education (combined);
have been in the inspection business for at least three years;
agree to abide by the inspection industry’s toughest Code of Ethics;
agree to periodic criminal background checks; and
submit the application and the one-time fee (no annual dues, ever)

Best regards.
Robert

**Claude Lawrenson** · 05-03-2014, 07:21 AM

Since my name was brought forward RE: The free CMI, let me add my comment. On the other hand I could choose to sit back and say nothing. But in fairness -

Ray is correct, that I received a CMI. I did not pay for it. I relinquished it primarily because I never applied for it, and it could eventually be an issue. I questioned Nick about it and was told that although more than qualified to receive it, he bestowed it upon me. I'm not sure why, it certainly seemed like a nice gesture at the time, but it seemed timely when considering other circumstances taking place in Canada at that time.

But Ray has also pointed out a few other glaring concerns with respect to the CMI. Anyone can self proclaim they meet the requirements, however, it also leaves room for potential abuse of the certification application process. So one can surmise the real value other than as some have proclaimed on the INACHI forum, it to be primarily a marketing advantage.

It's also my understanding that Roy was primarily the "Canadian" contact person for CMI designation registration. It was established by Nick. It appeared from ongoing discussion on the INACHI forum that he wanted something to counter the National Certification Program in Canada.

But more to the issue at heart that got this discussion started - CAHPI BC has a right to determine its own policies and procedures, as long as they are consistent with the corporation bylaws. Personally I have met the lady being "bad mouthed" and she is a professional, and respectfully does not deserve the unfair and bias negative comments stated.

As stated earlier by Steven T - I must also agree that this is association against association politics. This only serves to provide ammunition to show unprofessional the home inspection sector can look.

**Raymond Wand** · 05-03-2014, 07:24 AM

This is a worthy read in relation to the topic of CMI and other designations as discussed in relation to financial planning and concern over proliferation of meaningless titles.

The Real Way To Eliminate Specious (Senior) Designations For Advisors

Posted by Michael Kitces on Monday, June 10th, 11:04 am, 2013 in Planning Profession

The Real Way To Eliminate Specious (Senior) Designations For Advisors | Kitces.com

Also thank you Claude for verification of what I had posted.

**ROBERT YOUNG** · 05-03-2014, 08:51 AM

I deference of Raymond Wand and myself concerning this thread.

Raymond, I did not read all the posts in the tread.
There is enough ongoing negativity and embellishment on the MB I enjoy, and I have had a stomach full. I avoided several posts on this tread and should have followed the string. from beginning to end.

The reason being, one particular member posting here continually devotes himself to making false accusations and belittles Raymond, Roy Cooke and myself at will and is a very troubled man.

His actions are being scrutinized.

Raymond, please accept my humblest apologies.
Best regards as always.

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