Termination Cap

**Jim Gecz** · 09-20-2018, 12:15 PM

Am I correct that when a new chimney liner is installed that a proper termination cap, one approved by the manufacturer, needs to be used? That does not mean the mesh spark arrestor style. True or false?

Thanks!

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**John Dirks Jr** · 09-22-2018, 06:53 AM

A manufacturer may recommend a specific part which they are the maker of. Helps them sell more stuff. But that doesn't mean that a different part wont serve the intended purpose of a flue cap.

What specifically would be the concern with the cap you pictured? Maybe there is a specific concern, and if so, I'd like to know what it is?

**Jim Gecz** · 09-22-2018, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr

What specifically would be the concern with the cap you pictured? Maybe there is a specific concern, and if so, I'd like to know what it is?

Every time I see a chimney repair that modifies from the recommended installation there are normally other shortcuts. This chimney was too high for my talents to get a close up look, but other similar flues without termination caps often were just thrown into the old terra cotta, no insulation, no termination plate, etc.

Besides just passing the buck to a chimney sweep for further evaluation I'd like to know if the lack of an approved termination cap is an acceptable practice.

**ROBERT YOUNG** · 09-22-2018, 07:28 AM

That is a spark arrestor.
Inside a liner not terminating as required. Sealed to the crown or flue.

Observation: No chimney crown.
In your pic, the bricks have been cobbled or raked, flaring the width of or reducing the masonry width, to represent a crown. Not compliant.
Unsealed flue liner. Flue gas safety hazard.

Recommend a licensed masonry contractor install a crown evaluate and improve any flue liner defects or deficiencies. Fasten the spark arrestor to the terracotta liner, if one exists or install and adequately fasten an adequate spark arrestor to a sufficient height above the crown.

Limitations. Could,would not remove the spark arrester.
Masonry chimneys require either a crown 4" wider the the chimney with a capillary break or a stainless or corrosion resistant metallic crown with a hemmed seam diverter.

Masonry chimneys require either a crown 4" wider the the chimney with a capillary break or a stainless or corrosion resistant metallic crown with a hemmed seam water diverter.

**Jim Gecz** · 09-22-2018, 07:33 AM

Excellent. Thanks so much for the thorough reply.
Enjoy the weekend!

Jim

**ROBERT YOUNG** · 09-22-2018, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Gecz

Excellent. Thanks so much for the thorough reply.
Enjoy the weekend!

Jim

I forgot to attach links.

Do not quote my post. I was rough.
I am sure others have remarks as to what I posted.

Have a great day.

**John Dirks Jr** · 09-22-2018, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by ROBERT YOUNG

I forgot to attach links.

Do not quote my post. I was rough.
I am sure others have remarks as to what I posted.

Have a great day.

I'd say you caught many things just by looking at that picture.

Do we even know what this flue is serving? Open fireplace, wood stove, pellet stove, gas insert?

**Jerry Peck** · 09-22-2018, 05:11 PM

Reason for a proper cap - listing and labeling of the item and manufacturer's installation instructions (which are part of the listing and labeling information).

**ROBERT YOUNG** · 09-22-2018, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by John Dirks Jr

I'd say you caught many things just by looking at that picture.

Do we even know what this flue is serving? Open fireplace, wood stove, pellet stove, gas insert?

That's what we do John. We observe and recommend.
I was a practicing mason. Built one or two of the chimney thingamabobs once or twice. Easy for me I guess.

Fair hypotheses. What fuel?
Looks new.
Never seen a caulked spark arrester before. LOL.
Think that caulking will last after the first or second fuel burn? Likely not.
Good strong steady wind will blow it off the chimney.

**Jerry Peck** · 09-22-2018, 07:08 PM

This is what I am referring to - if it isn't done in accordance with the manufacturer's installation instructions, it isn't done properly ... notice the caps in the installation instructions:

http://www.hartandcooley.com/files/a...mneyLiner1.pdf
- Flexi-Liner® is designed for use in existing masonry or listed factory-built chimneys and vents as a chimney liner for Category 1 listed gas-fired appliances equipped with draft hoods and other gas appliances listed for use with Type B Gas Vent that burn natural gas or propane, under neutral or negative draft. - - CAUTION: THIS ALUMINUM LINER IS NOT INTENDED FOR SOLID OR LIQUID FUEL-BURNING APPLIANCES!
- IMPORTANT: FLEXI-LINER HAS BEEN TESTED AND LISTED, USING ALL THE SUPPORTS, SECTIONS, ETC., DESCRIBED HEREIN. DELETION OR MODIFICATION OF ANY OF THE REQUIRED PARTS OR MATERIALS MAY SERIOUSLY IMPAIR THE SAFETY OF YOUR INSTALLATION AND VOID THE CONDITIONS OF CERTIFICATION AND/OR WARRANTY OF YOUR LINER.

https://www.mtlfab.com/media/Flexibl...ions-L2589.pdf
- Metal-Fab’s stainless steel flex liner system is available in 3” (76 mm) to 8” (203 mm) diameters. It is intended for installation in existing or new tile lined or unlined masonry chimneys and for Factory Built chimneys (Canada only) used to vent Category I appliances.
- IMPORTANT: The flex liner has been tested and listed using all the components described herein. Deletion or modification of any of the required parts or materials as specified in these instructions may impair the safety of the installation and may void the listing and/or warranty of the liner system.

http://www.novaflexgroup.com/informa...S%209.2014.pdf
- The Z-Flex Flexible Liner is intended for use as a chimney liner in masonry chimneys for oil, gas or wood fired residential heating appliances with maximum running temperature of 1000° F (538° C) and occasional 1400° F (760° C) temperatures.
- WARNING: Do not use any materials other than those specified in this instruction.
- A. WARNING: DO NOT USE ANY MATERIAL/PARTS OTHER THAN THOSE SPECIFIED IN THE INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS.

What is needed depends on the type of fuel, and the limitations of the flue liner - but most importantly, use all of what is required by the listing and labeling (installation instructions) and nothing else (or the installation is not in accordance with its listing and labeling and is thus an incorrectly installed, no longer listed installation.

Find a flue liner ... yeah, it's a big deal to 'not say something is not right' with it (i.e., 'say that it is functional' ... or whatever other term or phrase you prefer to use). What if the liner is aluminum and is being used for solid fuel wood?

**Bob Harper** · 03-03-2019, 08:07 PM

UL 1777 requires a rain cap. It does not require that cap be a listed component with the liner. You can install a liner under a stone rain slab as long as you use the listed top support plate. You should use some form of mesh for spark arrestor/ animal guard but that isn't required. The flue gas outlet needs sufficient clearance from the rain cap- typically 5". The mesh needs to be min. 4x the cross-sectional area of the flue.
HTH