Bonding Strap Removed on Main Panel

**Sam Morris** · 07-02-2021, 02:43 PM

House built in 2001, MAIN GE PANEL with bonding strap removed, with bonding screw in and all the neutrals on the neutral bus and all the grounds on the ground bus bar. Shouldnt the bus bar jumper be attached ? Why would they remove the jumper, its laying in the bottom of panel (bus bars are mounted on plastic)

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**Jim Port** · 07-02-2021, 07:24 PM

The 4 wire feed makes this look like a distribution panel and not the service. Do you have pictures of the meter?

**Sam Morris** · 07-03-2021, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Port

The 4 wire feed makes this look like a distribution panel and not the service. Do you have pictures of the meter?

I kinda do have a picture you can see the bottom of the meter in the picture, I think I know where this is going, the answer is YES.

**Bill Kriegh** · 07-03-2021, 10:54 AM

There is not enough information to determine what the situation is here. I agree the panel looks like it is wired like it is not the main disconnect. But, without a picture of the meter enclosure there is no way to tell.

It looks like there might be a basement. If so, is there another panel there?

**Jim Port** · 07-05-2021, 10:47 AM

I did not expect the LB to come into the bottom of the panel.

Was hoping to see more of the meter enclosure.

**Jerry Peck** · 07-05-2021, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Port

I did not expect the LB to come into the bottom of the panel.

To go into the bottom of the panel, another LB is likely going down from the bottom of the panel (which should be left exposed for access to the cover).

If not another LB going down from the bottom of the panel, what else could make that 90 degree turn up into the bottom of the panel, not require an accessible cover, and fit within that wall? A 90 ell would be too large of a sweep to fit in the wall.

Then there is your first observation (which still to be addressed) if that is from the meter enclosure to the service equipment as it is described as being, and as is shown as being.

The 4 wire feed makes this look like a distribution panel and not the service.

That 4-wire service entrance creates a parallel path for neutral and grounding current ... unless the meter box has a floating neutral, which is possible.

**Rollie Meyers** · 07-05-2021, 06:06 PM

Wire looks a bit small for 200A, either it's undersized or there is another panel somewhere. I have never been a fan of getting rid of a split neutral in a panel because someone is too cheap to buy a ground bar kit, & it's not always done right/well. There are plenty of unanswered questions before passing judgement on this install.

**Gunnar Alquist** · 07-05-2021, 09:06 PM

I have heard that some areas allow (require?) the neutral to be bonded to the equipment grounding conductors in the meter enclosure. Could this be the case here?

**Jerry Peck** · 07-06-2021, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

I ... some areas allow (require?) the neutral to be bonded to the equipment grounding conductors in the meter enclosure. Could this be the case here?

Still would have only 3 conductors in the service entrance conductors unless the meter box/can had floating neutral.

The place I used to find meter cans with floating neutrals was at cell phone towers where there was on service and service equipment, then each carrier and other equipment was supplied by feeders (4 wires) and each had their own meter (which required a floating neutral meter can).

Haven't seen a floating neutral meter can at a house that I can recall.

**Gunnar Alquist** · 07-06-2021, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Still would have only 3 conductors in the service entrance conductors unless the meter box/can had floating neutral.

I am evidently missing a piece of education here.

If neutral/EGC is bonded in the meter enclosure, wouldn't there be four wires from the meter enclosure to the service equipment?

**Jerry Peck** · 07-06-2021, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

If neutral/EGC is bonded in the meter enclosure, wouldn't there be four wires from the meter enclosure to the service equipment?

Service equipment conductors, including SE cable, contain three conductors: 2 ungrounded 'hot' conductors, each of which is 120 volts from the neutral and which also creates 240 volts from each other; 1 'neutral'/'ground' conductor which serves as a fixed "grounded" center point between the two ungrounded conductors.

The neutral/ground conductor may be insulated or uninsulated (bare). The two ungrounded conductors are required to be insulated.

Feeding the service (using an overhead service as the example) are two ungrounded insulated conductors and one grounded uninsulated bare conductor. Those conductors are carried down the mast to the meter can where the grounded conductor is connected to the neutral/grounding terminal (which is permanently fixed (bonded) to the meter can and ground the meter can.

After the meter are the service entrance conductors (described above) which go to the service equipment and the main service disconnect (the first disconnect which de-energizes the structure/building from the service entrance conductors).

There are three conductors to this point to the service equipment, with one conductor serves two purposes: a) being the grounded conductor and b) being the grounding conductor.

From the service equipment onward, there will be four conductors as that neutral conductor is split into two separate conductors, one to serve each use, as noted below.

From that service equipment point onward, a fourth conductor is added (that conductor is the groundING conductor and is used as the "equipment groundING conductor") and that groundING conductor may be insulated or uninsulated (bare); and at that same point in the service equipment onward, the neutral conductor is required to be insulated (while still being grounded at the service equipment) and becomes the groundED conductor (however, it is no longer permitted to be connected to groundING conductor or to anything which is grounded by the groundING conductor at any point after the service equipment).

Correct me if I left something out, or if I added something in which shouldn't be there.