Entrance From Garage

[Ron Gries]

Hello Everyone,
I know that the garage-dwelling door should not enter a bedroom due to the risk of vehicle fumes and/or fire entering the bedroom(s). But is it permissible to enter into a closet that is attached to the bedroom as seen in the photos? Garage to closet to bedroom.

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[Jerry McCarthy]

As long as there's a door between the closet and bedroom and the door opening from the closet into the garage is a 1-3/8" in thickness, solid-core or honeycomb core steel door, or a 20 minute fire-rated door. ref: 2006 IRC 309.1 and for the west coast; 2007 CBC 406.1.4. BTW, the first ICBO code published in California in 1927 stated the same that there shall be no direct opening between a garage and a sleeping room. #1505.

[Jerry Peck]

Ron,

This is the 2006 IRC wording, my answer, and why my answer is that:

- SECTION R309
- - GARAGES AND CARPORTS

- - - R309.1 Opening protection.

Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted. Other openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 13/8 inches (35 mm) thick, or 20-minute fire-rated doors.

"Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."

No, that door is not allowed.

The closet is part of the bedroom, it is part of what makes a room a 'bedroom', also, the closet, as part of a bedroom, requires AFCI protection for any and all circuits which have outlets in the bedroom (and closet).

The simple solution is to make a 3' deep alcove with another door to the closet, separating the closet from the garage.

[Ron Gries]

Thanks for your quick response, both of you. I can now finish my report.

[Richard Stanley]

How about if the "fire" door was between the bedroom and the closet?

[Markus Keller]

Jerry, I am surprised how lenient the IRC is on the door. Our Code also does not allow an exit path through a bedroom. However, our Code requires at least a B door or 3 hour steel door, (it's been a while, I don't remember exactly) between a DU and an attached garage. No wood door at all allowed I remember that for sure. Must also have rated jamb and rated self-closer and rated hinges.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry, I am surprised how lenient the IRC is on the door. Our Code also does not allow an exit path through a bedroom. However, our Code requires at least a B door or 3 hour steel door, (it's been a while, I don't remember exactly) between a DU and an attached garage. No wood door at all allowed I remember that for sure. Must also have rated jamb and rated self-closer and rated hinges.

Markus,

The only reason to have a door like that would be if the wall itself is a "fire rated assembly", and to require a 3 hour rated door would indicate that was a 4 hour rated wall.

I think you are thinking of something else ... could you go back and check it? Thanks.

[Jerry McCarthy]

Let's talk about a walk-in bedroom closet separated from the bedroom by a door being considered an integral part of the bedroom? (sleeping room)

[Jerry Peck]

Let's talk about a walk-in bedroom closet separated from the bedroom by a door being considered an integral part of the bedroom? (sleeping room)

Okay ... but first explain what you just said (I thought that's what were we already talking about).

[Jerry McCarthy]

Just being silly Jerry. BUT, if one has to walk through a doored space into another doored space I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom. Of course I'm assuming the door from the garage into the closet is a fire rated door, etc.

PS: I’m also aware there is no such word as “doored” but I know you get my drift.

(this should make for a good discussion?)

[Billy Stephens]

Ron,

This is the 2006 IRC wording, my answer, and why my answer is that:

- SECTION R309
- - GARAGES AND CARPORTS

- - - R309.1 Opening protection.

Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted.
.

The closet is part of the bedroom,

I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom.

Jerry Mc.,

If the closet space is considered part of the bedroom I don't see how the garage door would be allowed.

Closet doors are changed or removed (mirrored ,bia., latts ect.)

Please elaborate how the closet space is not considered part of a bedroom.

[Jerry Peck]

BUT, if one has to walk through a doored space into another doored space I miss the point of why you want to say the closet space doesn't count as a true separation from the garage to bedroom.

Because the closet is part of the 'private bedroom' and many people leave "closet doors" open or ajar - as there is no real reason to close them.

Thus, you end up with a bedroom and its closet opening directly to the garage.

The closet is 'part of' the bedroom, and no bedroom ("room used for sleeping purposes") is allowed to open directly to a garage - the 'part of the bedroom' which is a closet does (in this case) open directly to the garage, hence 'the bedroom' opens directly to the garage (which is not allowed).

[Markus Keller]

Jerry, your answer was correct. The items I mentioned were for garage/repair shop separation.
On the DU/attached garage separation Chicago Code states:
1 hr. separation, only one access door no more than 21 sqft in size, self-closing door not less fire-resistive than a solid wood door one and three-quarters inches thick; sill not less than 8 inches above the garage floor.
Correction posted.

[Jerry McCarthy]

Jerry P said: “Because the closet is part of the 'private bedroom' and many people leave "closet doors" open or ajar - as there is no real reason to close them. Thus, you end up with a bedroom and its closet opening directly to the garage.”

I say: I cannot buy that argument in that many folks take the automatic closer, if there is one, off the door between the garage and house and leave it open a crack or even wide open. Is not a walk-in closet a separate space in an R-3 residential dwelling? If so how can a bedroom open directly into a garage when it actually opens into a closet that opens into a garage?

I can't find any definitive reference in the codes to my dilemma and if you can I will stand corrected, chastised, ashamed, and suitably contrite.

[Jerry Peck]

Is not a walk-in closet a separate space in an R-3 residential dwelling?

Do lights in bedroom walk-in closets require AFCI protection?

[Jerry McCarthy]

Yes and? Come on JP, you can make a better argument than that. Until somebody shoots down my two doors between a bedroom and garage theory I'll stick to my argument. BTW, because somebody could possibly change a door or remove it doesn't fly with me.

[Rick Cantrell]

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It's "East Coast Jerry" vs "West Coast Jerry", in a no holds barred extravaganza, for the World Championship title.

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[Richard Stanley]

AND if the closet is considered part of the bedroom and requires afci for its electrical outlets AND if the bedroom is a habitable room, THEN lighting should be required for the closet!!!

[Markus Keller]

The idea of considering the closet or walk-in closet as a separate room between the bedroom/garage doesn't work at least on the following 2 points:
1- closet most likely doesn't meet minimum sqft requirements to be considered a habitable room;
2- the bedroom is still within the exit path
Trying to rationalize that the closet scenario is OK, is just that, rationalization (bullshit)
so ...
- why not cut another access into a hallway a few feet over?
- make it an office until the deal is done?

[Jerry Peck]

Yes and?

And ....

That's because the closet *IS* 'part of the bedroom', hence, in referring to the bedroom, that includes the closet.

Since 'the bedroom' is 'a room used for sleeping purposes' (that is what a bedroom is), 'the bedroom' would not be allowed to have a door,i.e., "an opening", here: "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."

[Jerry McCarthy]

JP stated: "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."
JM says: The Key Word here is "directly" So in real life the door from the garage does not actually open directly into the bedroom, yes/no?

[Jerry Peck]

JP stated: "Openings from a private garage directly into a room used for sleeping purposes shall not be permitted."
JM says: The Key Word here is "directly" So in real life the door from the garage does not actually open directly into the bedroom, yes/no?

"yes/no?"

No.

The real life door from the garage *DOES* "directly" open into 'part of the sleeping room', i.e., 'part of the bedroom', i.e., "the closet part of the bedroom/sleeping room".

[Dana Bostick]

Sheeeesh! Quible, quible. LOL
All I know is that if I leave MY closet door ajar I'll find all my shoes in the back yard. My dog is a thief!
Dana

[Larry Heitzenrater]

Jerry or one of the other Florida guys:

I did an inspection on a house last week that was built in 2003. Had a standard interior door from the garage to the house. I wrote it up as: "Openings between the garage and residence shall be equipped with solid wood doors not less than 1-3/8 inches in thickness, solid or honeycomb core steel doors not less than 1-3/8 inches thick, or 20-minute fire-rated door."

The buyer called me today to verify this was code at the time of construction. Of course I told him a home inspection is not a code inspection and recommended the door be changed regardless. He still wanted to know. I have an IRC 2000 that verifies the requirement but not a FBC 2001. Do you know if the FBC 2001 had this requirement? If so what chapter and section?

Thanks,

Larry

[Jerry Peck]

Larry,

Regarding "separation" - That was one of the things lost when Florida went to its first 2001 Florida Building Code:

- §411.2.6 Automobile parking garages shall be separated from other occupancies in accordance with §704.
- - EXCEPTION: Separation is not required between a Group R3 building and an attached garage.

- R3: Residential occupancies including the following:
- - Child care facilities which accommodate 3 or fewer children of any age for any time period.
- - One-and two-family dwellings where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as R1, R2 or I.
- - Rooming houses (transient)
- - Rectories, parsonages

That said (regarding "separation"), that door needs to meet the same requirements of any other exterior door regarding separating the conditioned space from non-conditioned space and outdoors, i.e., it needs to be a solid wood or metal insulated door with weather stripping, threshold, etc.

Ultimately, when they meet the above, they will also be meeting the requirements for "separation" in today's code.

[Larry Heitzenrater]

Hey Jerry:

Thanks for the info; I will pass it along.

Thanks,

Larry