We Don't Need No Stinking Neutral Bar

Eldon (Scooter) Holliday · 03-23-2009, 07:45 AM

We always do it that way, never been called out before.

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Fred Warner · 03-23-2009, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Eldon (Scooter) Holliday

We always do it that way, never been called out before.

I'm assuming you're kidding. Right?

The grounded conductors on the left-most terminal are a violation of manufacturer's listings going way back and also of the NEC 408.41 which just mirrors what the manufacturer's have said for years.

One of the reasons why this rule is in place is an all-out effort to minimize the potential of accidentally removing one neutral conductor of a multi-wire circuit which would create a series-parallel circuit while simply trying to remove a grounded conductor from the terminal. The mere fact that your local inspectors and electricians may not know any better should not give rise to accepting a blatant code violation.

**Jerry Peck** · 03-23-2009, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Fred Warner

I'm assuming you're kidding. Right?

Fred,

Pretty sure that he forgot the smiley face after it.

Fred Warner · 03-23-2009, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Fred,

Pretty sure that he forgot the smiley face after it.

Jerry, this person has to be pulling our chain. The thought of the potential consequences of someone doing electrical work and doing this to grounded conductors/neutrals is mind-shattering. And if you factor in working "hot" it's overwhelming.......especially with multiwire branch circuits.
The notion that since it's been done for years therefore it must be alright falls on it's face. I always remember the argument the mason puts forward when he says he's been building chimeys for forty years like this and nothing's ever burned down when he's using the brick siding of a house for one side of the chimney and the other 3 sides are a concrete masonry unit with one side removed.

Eldon (Scooter) Holliday · 03-26-2009, 04:50 AM

I incorrectly thought that the title would indicate I was having a little fun. Trouble with the written word is that it cannot convey sarcasm. Jerry is right I should have used a smiley.
The only person pulling something was the builder who told me the local district did not adopt the 2003 NEC until after this house was under construction so the multi lugged neutral wires were "grandfathered". So how about a picture of the other side of the panel.