Water heater (vehicular protection in garage)

[Trent Tarter]

Does a wood framed wall in front of a water heater meet code requirements for water heater vehicular protection in a garage. It's not acceptable in my opinion, I know that it would not protect near as well as a pipe bollard.

Similar Threads:

• ABS Flue Pipe on LP Water Heater
• Grandma's Garage Explosion Story
• Garage Door reinforcement
• Reverse plumbing to water heater
• Protection of wiring in the attic

[Brandon Whitmore]

That's a tough call. If the wall is attached at the top and bottom I doubt I would make an issue of it. Besides the bollard, those curb type devices are (were?) allowed-- a car would jump right over those at any rate of speed.

EDIT: In my report, I would probably say that it is unconventional, and tell them why.............

[Rick Hurst]

My wife could take that wall out with no problem.

rick

[Jerry Peck]

To say "No." is to say that no framed wall provided protection from the garage to the inside of the house, where if that water heater were sitting in a laundry room where the door to the garage is - you would not even question it ... right?

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

I would question the creative use of a veneered end table as a non-legitimate unsecured, unprotected (water leak spillover to walls) and flamable platform for the water heater itself.

House wall & sill protected from water spill/leak - no pan doubt flashing exists behind drywall.

What is the garage floor made of that the end-table/make-shift water heater platform is resting on?

Height of questionable platform. What's going on with that platform is that particle board stalagtites from prior moisture spills?

Working space clearance to this dividing wall. Flamability clearance from chamber side to wall? hard to scale in the photograph without knowing depth of shelving. Is this a three-sided enclosed space/closet-alcove without a door now? (because it appears as a hall as the far right on the garage side shelves looks open as if this partition wall seems to not go to the outside wall - so appears open back to garage).

WH side of wall has shelving on burner plate access side overhanging work space - clearance from gas vent for shelf above, bracket for lower shelf indicating restriction of air flow for draft hood. Hard to tell is that aluminum duct seal tape on the gas vent?

Is that hard pipe at the wall to the valve/flexible connector - where is the sediment trap/drip leg?

Is there an elevation change in the garage or flat sloped floor?

Flex connector too long, access, clearance and inproper unsecured platform.

Rotate 90 degrees shorter connector or hardpipe to control valve proper platform at proper height above flamable vapor line. Location stradling control joint on slab floor also a challenge.

A tot ramming that table with a rider toy could take that WH out. Tip hazard.

Don't you have seismic strap requirements in Washington State?

[Jerry Peck]

I would question the creative use of a veneered end table as a non-legitimate unsecured, unprotected (water leak spillover to walls) and flamable platform for the water heater itself.

We didn't question it because it is only veneered in the fact that the plywood top is, like all plywood, made of "veneer layers".

The table itself is made out of 2x4 legs, spreaders and top support.

A tot ramming that table with a rider toy could take that WH out. Tip hazard.

Quite unlikely, that water heater stand is much to strong for that to happen that easily. Yes, any water heater can be tipped over with enough force to overcome the weight and inertia of the water heater standing upright.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

We didn't question it because it is only veneered in the fact that the plywood top is, like all plywood, made of "veneer layers".

The table itself is made out of 2x4 legs, spreaders and top support.



Quite unlikely, that water heater stand is much to strong for that to happen that easily. Yes, any water heater can be tipped over with enough force to overcome the weight and inertia of the water heater standing upright.

Since no smiley face or anything, I'm assuming you were seriously defending the use of that table as a proper platform.

Nothing about the construction of that table would be correct for L/300 minimums. There is little which can be defended as to this defective installation.

I have yet to see furniture for indoor use constructed with rated, treated lumber.

Yes with control joint and garage description I am assuming we are looking at a slab/poured floor.

[Jerry Peck]

Since no smiley face or anything, I'm assuming you were seriously defending the use of that table as a proper platform.

I am seriously correcting you when you stated it was "a veneered end table", which it is not.

I have yet to see furniture for indoor use constructed with rated, treated lumber.

I am again seriously correcting you in that is not "indoor furniture".

Whether or not that 2x4 table is suitable for the use it is being used as would depend on things which WE do not know, so I am not passing judgment on that. Those 2x4 tables with thick plywood that small are VERY STRONG, depending the nails, on thickness of plywood, on ... on many things NOT KNOWN, but what is known is that it is not "a veneered end table" as you stated.

Just a simple correction. Take it as that.

Or not. Your choice.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

P.S. I am also concerned about what I cannot determine with specificity regarding the T&P discharge .

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

It seems you are defending the use of the "table" as a WH platform.

I question its use as neither a listed one nor constructed to code. Esp. proximity to separation wall & sill, location in garage, and upon slab, materials, securing, seismic, etc.

[Jerry Peck]

It seems you are defending the use of the "table" as a WH platform.

Seems you have problems reading as well as admitting when you are wrong.

I will repeat it for you.

I am seriously correcting you when you stated it was "a veneered end table", which it is not.

I am again seriously correcting you in that is not "indoor furniture".

Whether or not that 2x4 table is suitable for the use it is being used as would depend on things which WE do not know, so I am not passing judgment on that. Those 2x4 tables with thick plywood that small are VERY STRONG, depending the nails, on thickness of plywood, on ... on many things NOT KNOWN, but what is known is that it is not "a veneered end table" as you stated.

Just a simple correction. Take it as that.

Or not. Your choice.

That support stand for the water heater MAY BE correctly built, or it MAY NOT BE, again, though, not enough information to know. YOU can assume if you want to, you assume many things just because they are not visible. I prefer to go on what I know and what is presented.

Don't get your shorts all hitched up just because you made a statement which got corrected because your statement was so wrong, no need to go around giving yourself wedgies all the time. Chill, sit back and relax, think, THEN post.

Posting on what is not shown might as well include that the house MAY NOT HAVE BEEN built properly, yep, that is not shown and we do not know that it was ...

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

We can see enough to know that it is not a proper platform for its location.

SBCC - State Building Code

[Jerry Peck]

We can see enough to know that it is not a proper platform for its location.

SBCC - State Building Code

Nope, we see enough to know that it does not conform to your general link, maybe if you posted specifically what you are referring to it would help explain what you are pointing to and referring to.

[Jerry Peck]

We can see enough to know that it is not a proper platform for its location.

SBCC - State Building Code

For that sake of debate and discussion, I'll take the side that it meets the requirements of the code for being able to support the load placed upon it.

Okay, now ... *you prove it does not meet code by referencing a specific code section* ...

Whenever you (not "you" as in 'you' singularly, but as in 'you' plural meaning all y'all) write something up as 'not meeting code', 'not code compliant', being a 'code violation', etc., you need to be able to quote a code section, otherwise your red tag citation is invalid. That has been discussed here many, many, many times before.

So, to substantiate your "that it is not a proper platform", your code citation section is ... ?

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

It is obvious that this is NOT an FVIR gas fired water heater. As mentioned previously the water heater storage vessle is NOT strapped AND is on a table in the garage, or perhaps an "adjacent space that is open to the garage and is not part of the living space of the dwelling unit".

WAC 51-51-003 INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE
"The 2006 edition of the International Residential Code as published by the International Code Council is hereby adopted by reference with the following additions, deletions and exceptions: Provided that chapters 11 and 25 through 42 of this code are not adopted. The Energy Code is regulate by chapter 51-11 WAC, the Plumbing Code is regulated by Chapters 51-56 and 51-57 WAC, the Electrical Code is regulated by chapter 296-46B WAC or the Electrical Code as adopted by the local jurisdiction. Appendix G, Swimming Pools, Spas and Hot Tubs, is included in adoption of the International Residential Code."

WAC 51-56-003 UNIFORM PLUMBING CODE.
"The 2006 edition of the Uniform Plumbing Code, published by the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials, is hereby adopted by reference with the following additions, deletions and exceptions: PROVIDED that Chapters 12 and 15 of this code are not adopted. PROVIDED FURTHER, that those requirements of the Uniform Plumbing Code relating to venting and combustion air of fuel fired appliances as found in Chapter 5 and those provisions of the Code addressing building sewers are not adopted.



Anchoring of Water Heaters: Water heaters shall be anchored or strapped in place to resist horizontal displacement due to earthquake motion. Strapping shall be at points within the top 1/3rd and lower 1/3rd of its vertical dimensions and four inches above controls. (UPC 508.2 & IRC M1307.2).

Anchoring of Equipment. Equipment and appliances shall be installed as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with the conditions of their approval, in accordance with the conditions of the listing, the manufacturer's installation instructions and this code. Manufacturer's installation instructions shall be available on the job site at the time of inspection. (IMC 304.1).

Stand required in garage locations as per UPC 508.14(1). "It is recommended that the stand be bolted to wall".
When installed in garages 18" minimum required between bottom edge of source of ignition and finish floor level unless the tank is a flammable vapor ignition resistant design, UPC 508.14 & G2408.2


Protection of Equipment Versus Vehicles: Appliances located in a garage or carport shall be protected from impact by automobiles (UPC 508.14(2) & IRC M1307.3.1). - Some jurisdictions will allow a partition wall some will not, also may depend on clearance from the edges of partition wall. Judgement by local AHJ office to omit bollard/s or curbstops.

"Provide protective steel bollard if water heater is placed in front of a parking stall. Provide adequate anchorage to floor. Note: Building departments may accept alternative forms of proctection. Consult your local building department for alternative methods. UPC 508.14(2)."
SBCC.

Watertight pan required if leaks would cause damage 2801.5 IRC, 508.4 UPC. The plate for the separation (living space vs. garage) wall is lower than the water heater.


Working space 509.4.4 & access 509.4.6.

Regarding the quality/type/installation of wood on the garage floor, IRC R319.

TPRV discharge to exterior or other approved location.
Temperature and pressure relief valve (drain to outside or other approved location - check with local building inspector) per UPC sections 505.4, 505.5, 505.6 & 506.2. Not to pan,
End outside or other approved location greater than or equal to 6" IRC, 6-24" UPC from ground, floor or receptor, may (not UPC) discharge to WH pan. IRC 2803.6.1 608.5 UPC,

Expansion Tank Required: Any water heating storage equipment shall have a listed expansion tank installed on the cold water side (UPC 608.3).

Drips on Gas Piping: A drip shall be provided at any point in the line where condensate could collect. A drip shall also be provided at the outlet of the meter and shall be installed so as to constitute a trap wherein an accumulation of condensate will shut off the flow of gas before the condensate will run back into the meter (IFGC 408.2). A drip shall not be located where the condensate is subject to freezing (IFGC 408.3).

UPC is the 2006 Uniform Plumbing Code.
2006 International Building Code (IBC)
2006 International Residential Code (IRC)
2006 International Mechanical Code (IMC)
2006 International Fuel Gas Code (IFGC)
2006 International Fire Code (IFC)
2006 Washington State Energy Code, WAC 51-11 (WSEC)
2006 Washington State Ventilation and Indoor Air Quality Code, WAC 51-13 (VIAQ)
2006 Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC)
2006 National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54)
2004 Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code (NFPA 58)
2006 Washington State-Wide Amendments

State of Washington Amendments to the codes can be viewed through the State Building Code Council <http://www.sbcc.wa.gov/>. The State Amendments <http://www.lni.wa.gov/scs/electrical/default.htm> to the NEC can be viewed at Publication 296-46B Electrical.

If you don't have access to the codes then yep, buy them or go to the library, Jerry Peck. More depends on exact location, as local offices are allowed to adopt more restrictive requirements. For example - requiring the platform be enclosed, requirng platform to be anchored to the floor, requiring the platform if wood, to be constructed as a load bearing floor complete with siesmic provisions for sheer, etc. - same as the partition wall - its up to the local interpretation and/or more restrictive provisions/ammendments.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

For that sake of debate and discussion, I'll take the side that it meets the requirements of the code for being able to support the load placed upon it.

Okay, now ... *you prove it does not meet code by referencing a specific code section* ...

Whenever you (not "you" as in 'you' singularly, but as in 'you' plural meaning all y'all) write something up as 'not meeting code', 'not code compliant', being a 'code violation', etc., you need to be able to quote a code section, otherwise your red tag citation is invalid. That has been discussed here many, many, many times before.

So, to substantiate your "that it is not a proper platform", your code citation section is ... ?

HI's don't red-tag. Rarely do HI's cite code, nor are they limited by it in describing a potential hazard, concern, etc.

HI's don't usually write anyting up as "not meeting code", "not code compliant" or "being a code violation".

I said it was not a proper platform for its location I should have added the word installation: not a proper platform installation for its location.

Location being attached garage, washington state; its being gas-fired non-FVIR, water heating storage vessle.

[Jerry Peck]

We can see enough to know that it is not a proper platform for its location.

SBCC - State Building Code

Your last post was a good start in the right direction as you actually *DID* include some code references, and for that I commend you, however, nothing in there backs up your statement above.

Okay, try again, this time concentrate on defending and backing up *YOUR STATEMENT ABOVE* regarding the platform not being proper for its location.

The stand *MAY* be on pads, felt, or steel, or it may be PT, the stand *MAY* be anchored to that wall behind it.

If you don't have access to the codes then yep, buy them or go to the library, Jerry Peck.

It is not I who said it did not meet code, it was you, and thus it is you who has the responsibility to defend and back your statement up, thus it is you who needs to have access to that particular code, and, once you do, you need to quote chapter and verse the precise exact section(s) which relate to that platform stand as not being acceptable.

So far, you have not done that, you have danced around that issue addressing many other things, so, it still remains up to you to back up your statement that is does not meet code.

You either need to be able back them, or, quite simply, quit making things up which you cannot back up.

Still waiting for your code reference showing that that platform is not in accordance with the code as you stated.

[Jerry Peck]

HI's don't red-tag. Rarely do HI's cite code, nor are they limited by it in describing a potential hazard, concern, etc.

HI's don't usually write anyting up as "not meeting code", "not code compliant" or "being a code violation".

I said it was not a proper platform for its location I should have added the word installation: not a proper platform installation for its location.

Location being attached garage, washington state; its being gas-fired non-FVIR, water heating storage vessle.

Right, you said "We can see enough to know that it is not a proper platform for its location." and we cannot see enough to know that, and, to be "not a proper platform for its location" means it is not approved for that location, which means it is not code acceptable, which means ... provide a code reference which back up what you said.

Simply put: You have not done so.

[Jerry Peck]

Right, you said "We can see enough to know that it is not a proper platform for its location." and we cannot see enough to know that, and, to be "not a proper platform for its location" means it is not approved for that location, which means it is not code acceptable, which means ... provide a code reference which back up what you said.

I will rephrase the above to help you out ... the other option is that ..

"We ... " means YOU do not like it and it is YOUR OPINION that it is not okay, in which case YOU can say anything YOU want to about it, but YOU would need to preface that with 'in your opinion' and not state 'we all no it is wrong' because it may not be wrong, just WRONG IN YOUR OPINION.

So, if it is easier, just admit that and state that it is YOUR OPINION.

" ... can see enough to know ... " To the contrary, we cannot see enough to know much of anything about it.

" ... that it is not a proper platform for its location." Again, if YOU are not saying or implying it is "not to code" then YOU must be saying and implying that in YOUR OPINION it is not a proper platform for its location.

Again, that is quite simple to address, simply state that it is YOUR OPINION and do not try to say or imply it is otherwise, by others or by code.

Then, when you start saying 'in your opinion', we can ignore it because you are not saying or implying anything with code or anything like that, you are simply stating "YOUR OPINION", which is all well and good, and lays your cards out on the table so we know where you stand.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Yes I have. And over a half-dozen with specificity as to the improper (defective) platform installation of this gas-fired non FVIR water heating storage vessle in an attached garage in Washington State.

I have further quoted SBCC with specificity regarding the solitary question posed by the OP with code citations and directing to the local building department regarding approval for alternative means regarding the UPC's required protection from parking stall and further outlined drywall covered partiion wall's proximity to appliance's chamber, discharge drain path, etc. and other defects with specificity.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

That's a tough call. If the wall is attached at the top and bottom I doubt I would make an issue of it. Besides the bollard, those curb type devices are (were?) allowed-- a car would jump right over those at any rate of speed.

EDIT: In my report, I would probably say that it is unconventional, and tell them why.............

I would question the creative use of a veneered end table as a non-legitimate unsecured, unprotected (water leak spillover to walls) and flamable platform for the water heater itself.

House wall & sill protected from water spill/leak - no pan doubt flashing exists behind drywall.

What is the garage floor made of that the end-table/make-shift water heater platform is resting on?

Height of questionable platform. What's going on with that platform is that particle board stalagtites from prior moisture spills?

Working space clearance to this dividing wall. Flamability clearance from chamber side to wall? hard to scale in the photograph without knowing depth of shelving. Is this a three-sided enclosed space/closet-alcove without a door now? (because it appears as a hall as the far right on the garage side shelves looks open as if this partition wall seems to not go to the outside wall - so appears open back to garage).

WH side of wall has shelving on burner plate access side overhanging work space - clearance from gas vent for shelf above, bracket for lower shelf indicating restriction of air flow for draft hood. Hard to tell is that aluminum duct seal tape on the gas vent?

Is that hard pipe at the wall to the valve/flexible connector - where is the sediment trap/drip leg?

Is there an elevation change in the garage or flat sloped floor?

Flex connector too long, access, clearance and inproper unsecured platform.

Rotate 90 degrees shorter connector or hardpipe to control valve proper platform at proper height above flamable vapor line. Location stradling control joint on slab floor also a challenge.

A tot ramming that table with a rider toy could take that WH out. Tip hazard.

Don't you have seismic strap requirements in Washington State?

Since no smiley face or anything, I'm assuming you were seriously defending the use of that table as a proper platform.

Nothing about the construction of that table would be correct for L/300 minimums. There is little which can be defended as to this defective installation.

I have yet to see furniture for indoor use constructed with rated, treated lumber.

Yes with control joint and garage description I am assuming we are looking at a slab/poured floor.

HI's don't red-tag. Rarely do HI's cite code, nor are they limited by it in describing a potential hazard, concern, etc.

HI's don't usually write anyting up as "not meeting code", "not code compliant" or "being a code violation".

I said it was not a proper platform for its location I should have added the word installation: not a proper platform installation for its location.

Location being attached garage, washington state; its being gas-fired non-FVIR, water heating storage vessle.

Yes I have. And over a half-dozen with specificity as to the improper (defective) platform installation of this gas-fired non FVIR water heating storage vessle in an attached garage in Washington State.

I have further quoted SBCC with specificity regarding the solitary question posed by the OP with code citations and directing to the local building department regarding approval for alternative means regarding the UPC's required protection from parking stall and further outlined drywall covered partiion wall's proximity to appliance's chamber, discharge drain path, etc. and other defects with specificity.

Modified quoted sections by highlighting use of bold, underline & red font.

[Jerry Peck]

Yes I have. And over a half-dozen with specificity as to the improper (defective) platform installation of this gas-fired non FVIR water heating storage vessle in an attached garage in Washington State.

Again, and again, and again, and now, yet again - Okay, so that is YOUR OPINION, where is the code stating such is the case?

YOU STILL HAVE NOT provided that.

I have further quoted SBCC with specificity regarding the solitary question posed by the OP with code citations and directing to the local building department regarding approval for alternative means regarding the UPC's required protection from parking stall and further outlined drywall covered partiion wall's proximity to appliance's chamber, discharge drain path, etc. and other defects with specificity.

And you have ... YET AGAIN ... YOU HAVE NOT PROVIDED supporting documentation to your assertion that the stand is an improper stand in that location, or in fact in any location.

You keep stating YOUR OPINION as though YOUR OPINION is what counts and what rules, YOUR OPINION is just that *YOUR* *OPINION* and without back up supporting documentation it is meaningless as anything other than *YOUR OPINION*.

It really is that plain and simple.

There is nothing wrong with stating it is just your opinion, we all do it a lot here, ... in my opinion ... and then state whatever you want.

But when you make a specific statement such as ... we can all see that is wrong ... then you need to be able to back it up.

Not sure why you are not grasping that simple aspect of it all.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

Admit it Jerry Peck, now you're demanding documentation, as in you are demanding I quote copyrighted material, and I will not. You have expressed many times before your displeasure with the UPC.

I provided documentation regarding the applicable model codes adopted by the state of Washington and even went so far as to quote the adoptive language underlining and bolding the chapters of the IRC which were NOT adopted, etc.

I cited the codes and was specific with the citations. I even went so far as to indicate what those citations stated without quoting them.

I have supported and expanded upon the concerns I indicated as well as supported by citation.

If you are unaware of the physics involved or how dangerous this unstrapped vessle is as installed and exposed (shown in photo) then it is there is no reason for me to respond. I have already provided the supporting information for the concerns I mentioned.

Your irrational need to peck a subject to death or provoke a poster to respond to your word-fencing is never abated you are never satisfied, and you change your position more often than the tides.

I've made, addressed, and supported my concerns regarding the deficient water heater installation.

[Jerry Peck]

Watson,

Admit it, you are only stating your opinions, and everyone has one, and they are meaningless.

You have also not provided a single code reference to back up your assertion that the wood platform is not suitable.

All you do is huff and puff and then try to re-direct and deflect questions away from what is being asked.

You may be blowing many things, but your huffing and puffing is not blowing any houses down here. All you are doing is getting out of breath running in circles trying to avoid answer the simplest and most basic questions about things YOU SAID.

It's not like you are being asked about things someone else said, it is simply asking about thing YOU SAID.

Surely, you must have some back up documentation to support your statements ... unless, of course, your statements ARE ONLY "your opinion", in which case no documentation is available, and in which case you should just come right out and admit they are YOUR OPINIONS.

No harm in doing that.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

It is obvious that this is NOT an FVIR gas fired water heater. As mentioned previously the water heater storage vessle is NOT strapped AND is on a table in the garage, or perhaps an "adjacent space that is open to the garage and is not part of the living space of the dwelling unit".

WAC 51-51-003 INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE
"The 2006 edition of the International Residential Code as published by the International Code Council is hereby adopted by reference with the following additions, deletions and exceptions: Provided that chapters 11 and 25 through 42 of this code are not adopted. The Energy Code is regulate by chapter 51-11 WAC, the Plumbing Code is regulated by Chapters 51-56 and 51-57 WAC, the Electrical Code is regulated by chapter 296-46B WAC or the Electrical Code as adopted by the local jurisdiction. Appendix G, Swimming Pools, Spas and Hot Tubs, is included in adoption of the International Residential Code."

WAC 51-56-003 UNIFORM PLUMBING CODE.
"The 2006 edition of the Uniform Plumbing Code, published by the International Association of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials, is hereby adopted by reference with the following additions, deletions and exceptions: PROVIDED that Chapters 12 and 15 of this code are not adopted. PROVIDED FURTHER, that those requirements of the Uniform Plumbing Code relating to venting and combustion air of fuel fired appliances as found in Chapter 5 and those provisions of the Code addressing building sewers are not adopted.



Anchoring of Water Heaters: Water heaters shall be anchored or strapped in place to resist horizontal displacement due to earthquake motion. Strapping shall be at points within the top 1/3rd and lower 1/3rd of its vertical dimensions and four inches above controls. (UPC 508.2 & IRC M1307.2).

Anchoring of Equipment. Equipment and appliances shall be installed as required by the terms of their approval, in accordance with the conditions of their approval, in accordance with the conditions of the listing, the manufacturer's installation instructions and this code. Manufacturer's installation instructions shall be available on the job site at the time of inspection. (IMC 304.1).

Stand required in garage locations as per UPC 508.14(1). "It is recommended that the stand be bolted to wall".
When installed in garages 18" minimum required between bottom edge of source of ignition and finish floor level unless the tank is a flammable vapor ignition resistant design, UPC 508.14 & G2408.2


Protection of Equipment Versus Vehicles: Appliances located in a garage or carport shall be protected from impact by automobiles (UPC 508.14(2) & IRC M1307.3.1). - Some jurisdictions will allow a partition wall some will not, also may depend on clearance from the edges of partition wall. Judgement by local AHJ office to omit bollard/s or curbstops.

"Provide protective steel bollard if water heater is placed in front of a parking stall. Provide adequate anchorage to floor. Note: Building departments may accept alternative forms of proctection. Consult your local building department for alternative methods. UPC 508.14(2)."
SBCC.

Watertight pan required if leaks would cause damage 2801.5 IRC, 508.4 UPC. The plate for the separation (living space vs. garage) wall is lower than the water heater.


Working space 509.4.4 & access 509.4.6.


Regarding the quality/type/installation of wood on the garage floor, IRC R319.

TPRV discharge to exterior or other approved location.
Temperature and pressure relief valve (drain to outside or other approved location - check with local building inspector) per UPC sections 505.4, 505.5, 505.6 & 506.2. Not to pan,
End outside or other approved location greater than or equal to 6" IRC, 6-24" UPC from ground, floor or receptor, may (not UPC) discharge to WH pan. IRC 2803.6.1 608.5 UPC,

Expansion Tank Required: Any water heating storage equipment shall have a listed expansion tank installed on the cold water side (UPC 608.3).

Drips on Gas Piping: A drip shall be provided at any point in the line where condensate could collect. A drip shall also be provided at the outlet of the meter and shall be installed so as to constitute a trap wherein an accumulation of condensate will shut off the flow of gas before the condensate will run back into the meter (IFGC 408.2). A drip shall not be located where the condensate is subject to freezing (IFGC 408.3).

UPC is the 2006 Uniform Plumbing Code.
2006 International Building Code (IBC)
2006 International Residential Code (IRC)
2006 International Mechanical Code (IMC)
2006 International Fuel Gas Code (IFGC)
2006 International Fire Code (IFC)
2006 Washington State Energy Code, WAC 51-11 (WSEC)
2006 Washington State Ventilation and Indoor Air Quality Code, WAC 51-13 (VIAQ)
2006 Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC)
2006 National Fuel Gas Code (NFPA 54)
2004 Liquefied Petroleum Gas Code (NFPA 58)
2006 Washington State-Wide Amendments

State of Washington Amendments to the codes can be viewed through the State Building Code Council <http://www.sbcc.wa.gov/>. The State Amendments <http://www.lni.wa.gov/scs/electrical/default.htm> to the NEC can be viewed at Publication 296-46B Electrical.

If you don't have access to the codes then yep, buy them or go to the library, Jerry Peck. More depends on exact location, as local offices are allowed to adopt more restrictive requirements. For example - requiring the platform be enclosed, requirng platform to be anchored to the floor, requiring the platform if wood, to be constructed as a load bearing floor complete with siesmic provisions for sheer, etc. - same as the partition wall - its up to the local interpretation and/or more restrictive provisions/ammendments.

..As this water heating storage vessle is installed, it is not....

[Jerry Peck]

We can see enough to know that it is not a proper platform for its location.

SBCC - State Building Code

..As this water heating storage vessle is installed, it is not....

Yet another blundering attempt at trying misdirection and obfuscation to avoid answering a direct question.

(See, I know how to use red and larger text too, even threw in some blue to make it look purty .)

[Trent Tarter]

Yes I did recommend earthquake strapping. As far as the wood platform is concerned it's very study and meets code requirements in my area. Drip pans are also not required in this type of installation, at least not in this part of the country.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

UPC 508.3 Water heater stand to be screwed or strapped to wall or floor or provide engineering calculations ber IBC 1621.

http://www.sww-icc.org/Documents/UPC...terHeaters.pdf

Notes lower left.

Pan required if wood platform/stand (as defined a floor-subfloor assembly).
UPC 508.4 When located in an attic, attic ceiling assembly, or floor-subfloor assembly where damage may result from leaking, a corrosion resistant water-tight pan shall be installed beneath tank with 3/4" min. drain pipe run to exterior (separate from T/P valve drain line). UPC 508.4

Tank ignition devices for gas are to be elevated equal to or greater than 18" above the floor and placed on R-10 pad if installed in unheated space or on concrete floor.
IMC 304.3 WSEC 504.2.1. 508.2 UPC.

ANY PLATFORM SUPPORTING THE WATER HEATER MUST BE SECURED TO THE STRUCTURE OR THE SLAB.

Washington State of, Seatle.
Section M1305 Appliance Access.
M1305.1 Appliance access for inspection, service, repair and replacement. Appliances shall be accessible for inspection, service, repair and replacement without removing permanent construction. Thirty inches (762 mm) of working space shall be provided in front of the control side to service an appliance. Room heaters shall be permitted to be installed with at least an 18-inch (457 mm) working space. A platform shall not be required for room heaters.
M1301.1.1 Flood-resistant installation. In areas prone to flooding as established by Table R301.2(1), mechanical appiances, equipment and systems shall be located or installed in accordance with Section R323.1.5.
M1305.1.2 Appliances in rooms. Appliances installed in a compartment, alcove, basement or similar space shall be accessed by an opening or door and an unobstructed passage-way measuring not less than 24 inches (610 mm) wide and large enough to allow removal of the largest appliance in the space, provided that a level service space of not less than 30 inches (762 mm) deep and the height of the appliance, but not less than 30 inches (762 mm), is present at the front or service side of the appliance with the door open.
M1305.1.4.1 Ground clearance. Appliances supported from the ground shall be level and FIRMLY SUPPORTED ON A CONCRETE SLAB OR OTHER APPROVED MATERIAL EXTENDING ABOVE THE ADJOINING GROUND. APPLIANCES SUSPENDED FROM THE FLOOR SHALL HAVE A CLEARANCE OF NOT LESS THAN 6 INCHES (152 mm) FROM THE GROUND.

SECTION M1307 APPLIANCE INSTALLATION
M1307.1 General. Installation of appliances shall conform to the conditions of their listing and label and the manufacturer's installation instructions. The manufacturer's operating and installation instructions shall remain attached to the apploiance.
M1307.2 Anchorage of appliances. Appliances designed to be FIXED IN POSITION SHALL BE FASTENED OR ANCHORED IN AN APPROVED MANNER. In Seismic Design Categories D1 and D2, water heaters shall be anchored or strapped to resist horizontal displacment due to earthquake motion. Strapping shall be at points within the upper one-third and lower one-third of the appliance's vertical dimmensions. At the lower point, the strapping shall maintain a minimum distance of 4 inches (102 mm) above the controls.

(H.G.'s note: Strapping may not be plumber's tape according to WA's adoption of the ammended UPC. Strapping is only for horizontal displacement, does not anchor the stand or platform and does not provide fastening to the floor or vertical displacement).

M1307.3 Elevation of ignition source. Appliances having an ignition source shall be elevated such that the source of ignition is not less than 18 inches (457 mm) above the floor in garages. For the purpose of this section, rooms or spaces that are not part of the living space of a dwelling unit and that communicate with a private garage through openings shall be considered to be part of the garage.
M1307.3.1 Protection from impact. Appliances located in a garage or carport shall be protected from impact by automobiles

It is not an approved alternative or stand or buidling method to being on concrete.
R602.10 IRC State of Washington

International Mechanical Code State of Washington
Section 304.9 Clearances from grade.
Equipment and appliances installed at grade level shall be supported on a level concrete slab or other approved material extending above adjoining grade.

R301.2.2.3.7 Anchorage of water heaters. Water heaters shall be anchored against movement and overturning in accordance with Section 1307.2

"State of Washington Building Code Council, effective July 1, 2007
Adopt and ammend the 2006 Edition of the Uniform Plumbing Code, Chapters 51-56 and 51-57 WAC.
WAC 51-56-003 Uniform Plumbing Code. The 2006 edition of the Uniform Plumbing Code published by the International Assocaition of Plumbing and Mechanical Officials is hereby adopted with the following additions, deletions and exceptions: Provided that chapters 12 and 15 of this code are not adopted. Provided further that those requirements of the Uniform Plumbing Code relating to venting and combustion air of fuel fired appliances as found in chapter 5 and those portions of the code addressing building sewers are not adopted.
The UPC adopted by chapter 51-56 WAC shall become effective in all counties and cities of this state on July 1, 2007 unless government residential amendments have been approved by the state building code council. " Retrieved from:
WASHINGTON STATE REGISTER

Seismic and platform/wall/floor structures are covered in IRC Chap 6. Seismic Weights materials R301.


Approved wood materials
Structural Wood-based Products
Criteria List


Bottom Line (especially note lower Left on structural securing of platform)
The UPC, IMC and WSEC require it.

http://www.sww-icc.org/Documents/UPC508-WaterHeaters.pdf

The wall, platform, installation as pictured in relationship to the water heater makes the water heater installation as pictured defective as to access, protection, securement, space, working space, seismic bracing horizontal and tip hazard. A proper wood platform if subject to damage from moisture would require a pan. Wood materials in contact with concrete isolated or treated.

Bottom Line (especially note lower Left on structural securing of platform) The UPC, IMC and WSEC (State of Washington) require it.

SEE:

http://www.sww-icc.org/Documents/UPC...terHeaters.pdf

who has kindly agreed to have it posted here.

Since in order to service the WH the wall would need to be removed or the WH be de-installed - suspect you might be required to supply the bollard type protection from vehicles that the UPC as adopted by Washington requires, or equal, depends on local office.

[/B]

[Jerry Peck]

(sigh)

Watson,

You have no idea of what went on in the posts above, do you?

Yes I did recommend earthquake strapping. As far as the wood platform is concerned it's very study and meets code requirements in my area. Drip pans are also not required in this type of installation, at least not in this part of the country.

Will you never learn?

Will you ever pay attention to what others say?

Will your incessant rants about what you think you know and that no one else is right ever stop?

I do believe the answer to each of the above 3 questions is: no, no, and, no.

[Darrel Hood]

Jerry & HG,
Please, let it go. Over and over again, you two are hijacking conversations with bickering. It costs me time to sort through your arguments when I am trying to find useful new information to make me a better inspector.

I am aware that this forum allows this, and that is the right of the forum's owners. But it does waste my time.

Darrel Hood
DILIGENT PROPERTY SERVICES

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

(sigh)

Watson,

You have no idea of what went on in the posts above, do you?



Will you never learn?

Will you ever pay attention to what others say?

Will your incessant rants about what you think you know and that no one else is right ever stop?

I do believe the answer to each of the above 3 questions is: no, no, and, no.

Yes I do know what "went on" in the posts.

NO where in the state of Washington is that statement true about drip pan not required or the non-engineered, non structural, improvised wood unsecured wood table, a compliant installation, regardless of what was asserted, it is on wood elevated on the garage slab in close proximity to the wall between garage and home. It straddles a relief score in the slab, neither is the non FVIR water storage vessle bolted to the modified non-listed "stand" nor is the "stand" secured to a wall or the slab.

The access/working space is compromised due to the positioning of the WH in relationship to the partition wall.

Took a while to respond since I was awaiting permission to post the materials I did, since you continued to make disparraging remarks and demanding it be quoted, was further done so.

Not opinion, it IS the law and has been the law. Local offices have no authority to allow LESS only MORE stringent. As for the ad hominem remarks and crud JERRY PECK insists on proliferating, speak to HIM about it.

Note he can't discuss the topic without getting personal, because facts don't support his assertions.

[H.G. Watson, Sr.]

The "table" has been topped with a piece of plywood (veneer reference). The "table" is not a platform with sheer walls or cross bracing for sheer or siesmic cross bracing.
The "table" is not an approved pre-engineered or listed stand.
The "table" is a wood type product.
The "table" is not mounted or bolted to the wall per seismic requirements, the "table" is not bolted or secured to the slab, the tank (WH) is not bolted to the "table" top.

As shown in the photo it is not a compliant installation for Washington State.

If the UPC isn't applicable to TX nor the Washington Building Codes, don't complain about your having wasted time reading through the on-topic discussion posts regarding the requirements of same.

[Jerry Peck]

Yes I do know what "went on" in the posts.

The thought has been that if your rantings and ravings and posting of information which did not provide much benefit ... went ignored, that your posts would then go away or you would eventually see what you were doing and realize very little of your posts were useful and start providing good usable information.

However, you seem to want to drag it all up all over again ... and again ... and again ... as though you cannot get enough of your self and you think we should all have that same pleasure ... which is has definitely NOT been a 'pleasure'.

But if you insist ... and you seem to be insisting ... here you are ...

Your last few posts were only good in that that THE TIME BETWEEN THEM was pleasant and serene, then you muddy the water by making a post containing very little useful information, then THE TIME BETWEEN THEM was again pleasant and serene, then you muddy the water by making another post ...

I guess I shall have to go back and UN-IGNORE your recent posts and show you your error of your ways, as much as Darren disliked it ...

(sigh)

Watson, you simply will not get it, will you?

(what a waste of time and effort as that man, if he is one, just does not learn, meaning any time spend clobbering him upside the head with the proverbial 2x4 will never get his attention)

(sigh)

[Jack Feldmann]

I have to admit that I have not read every word in this thread. But from what I have read, I have to say that Mr. Watson is way off track with his pontifications.

It is very clear the water heater stand is NOT an end table.
Without actually seeing the installation, he has criticized just about everything. This boggles my mind.

Just to let you know, not every jurisdiction enforces the seismic codes. I have not seen a strapped water heater since I left CA. The building depts. here just don't enforce seismic codes.

The original question had to do with weather a framed wall would pass as protection for a water heater in the garage. It really is up to the local AHJ as to what passes or not.

While a car "can" take out a wall, one could also take out the back wall of the garage too. So, if a wall is good enough to protect a water heater in a closet in the garage, I would think this might be OK too.

I'm still shaking my head over someone calling a platform an end table.

[Mike Truss Guy]

Since no smiley face or anything, I'm assuming you were seriously defending the use of that table as a proper platform.

That's not an ordinary table...it's a water table. Surprised you haven't heard of it before.

<--Notice smilies.

[Frazier Jeffery]

Regarding the tankless water heater in the garage. The water heater appears to be overe 18 inches above the floor for flame combustible issues. The heater is mounted on a side wall not in front of a vehicle so I would not be concerned with vehicle protection FYI in California the plumbing code does not necessitate the new VFIR sealed combustion chamber tank water heaters to be elevated 18 inches but need to be earthquake strapped. Many plumbers install the gas sediment trap with a simple tee and pipe cap downward from the tee This is incorrect for a sediment trap to work the gas flow has to change direction not just flow across the tee The tee should be turned 90 degrees so the gas enters the tee goes upwardto the flex supply and downwards to the sediment trap. Also in the picture of garage fire wall is that vent fire rared to close ?

- - - Updated - - -

Regarding the tankless water heater in the garage. The water heater appears to be overe 18 inches above the floor for flame combustible issues. The heater is mounted on a side wall not in front of a vehicle so I would not be concerned with vehicle protection FYI in California the plumbing code does not necessitate the new VFIR sealed combustion chamber tank water heaters to be elevated 18 inches but need to be earthquake strapped. Many plumbers install the gas sediment trap with a simple tee and pipe cap downward from the tee This is incorrect for a sediment trap to work the gas flow has to change direction not just flow across the tee The tee should be turned 90 degrees so the gas enters the tee goes upwardto the flex supply and downwards to the sediment trap. Also in the picture of garage fire wall is that vent fire rared to close ?