Obama Turning the Tide

[A.D. Miller]

Less than 6 months in the office and Barack is digging us out of the Bush Hole.

Total US jobless rolls drop sharply to nearly 6.7M - Builder Magazine

Republicans take your besst shot.

Similar Threads:

• Can someone explain the 6 swipes of a hand in turning off a panel
• I just saw Obama and Gore on TV.
• Obama vs McCain: It's about your money
• Who is Barack Obama??
• New to the site in Alamama (Roll Tide)

[Ted Menelly]

Less than 6 months in the office and Barack is digging us out of the Bush Hole.

Total US jobless rolls drop sharply to nearly 6.7M - Builder Magazine

Republicans take your besst shot.

Mon Sewer


You really have to quit with all that malarkey. "The Bush hole" was certainly not the Bush hole but a hole dug by Republicans, Democrats and the rest of the human populous.

Now before you get off on the Sibal side. I am neither a Dem or Repub which makes me a little less Sibal than you.

It was not a republican hole. It is the entire world, in case you never took notice, including me, you, Jerry Peck and even Bill Stevens that dug this hole.

Now you before you say "not me" well, did you by that expensive gas, make any purchases of goods made in China. Drink that extra Margarita?

Yes, you me and everyone else. Make any investments???????

With the dems having majority for years they did not seem to do anything about it. Of course not, they were getting fat as well.

[Rick Cantrell]

" WASHINGTON - The total number of people on the unemployment insurance rolls dropped for the first time since early January, the government said Thursday, while new claims for benefits rose slightly. "

The "Unemployment Rate" is not how many people are unemployed, but rather, how many people are receiving unemployment pay from the government. Big difference there.
The unemployment rate does not include the people whose unemployment payments have run out, and are still out of work. It does not include the people that are not eligible to receive unemployment payments, self employed people (like us), people that don't have "regular" jobs (day workers). Of course it does not include the 100s of thousands ( my number) of underemployed people. Again, people a lot like us, that do not make near as much as we did 2-3 years ago.

I think it's great that you support President Obama.
But as for your view of Bush, with all respect, keep it to yourself, or go to a forum better suited for that type of discussion.
Discuss current political events in this forum, yes sometimes.
But to hate all things Bush. What for, and what will change?
Bush has left the building.
Get it, get over it, and get on with it.

[Ted Menelly]

How about this


Taxing health benefits...........Really....................It is income. They should have been taixing it all along.

Now the unions are saying "Don't tax our pay....I mean health benefits."

Thousands a year in pay...I mean health benefits and never taxed ? After all, you can write off on what you pay out to medical.

What say you Mr Aaron???????????

Edit

Lets keep going with this

No one wants to pay a tax or what ever sourse mught be chosen to pay for others to retire or SS or medical.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Who do they think are paying for their retirement, benefits, sick days etc etc etc. Anyone who purchases goods or services from any company that pays these benefits to their employees are already paying for their retirement, sick days, vacation days etc etc etc.

So....They do not want to pay taxes on their benefits or pay for anyone elses benefits but they want everyone else to pay for theirs. Hmmmm............what a serious weird train of thought. Have the public pay for all their benefits but they want to pay into no one elses benefits.

I think everyone in the US should be paying for a comfortable retirement and benefits for me!!!!!!
I like the sound of that. How about you. Would you not like the worlds populas to pay for a nice retirement for you but you not pay for them.

What say you.

Of course this is all in jest but something to think about.

Matter as fact I want 100,000.00 of spendable cash to live on for the next ten years and then I still want someone else to pay for a retirement of at least 50,000 a year plus medical coverage.

What say you???????

[Scott Patterson]

A few thoughts:

I just would like to know how his lordship plans on paying for everything he is doing!

I think it was pointed out that one reason unemployment numbers are down is that many have used all of their unemployment up and they are now off the list. If you don't collect unemployment then you are not included in the numbers.

At what point will our current political leadership and others realize that they need to take ownership and stop passing the blame to those who are no longer around.

Why do we tolerate folks like Barbara Boxer? The General said Yes Ma'am (this is how the military refers to others in formal settings) and he was called on the rug and told to call her Senator.

Why have we not heard anything about the Inspector General that was fired for questioning how money was being spent. Ahh, I think this is his job!

When will the media honeymoon be over for Obama? Camelot is looking more like Disneyland.

Will you be willing to pay a 40% tax on your income to support the health care program (Obamacare) that is being looked at? Or would you be willing to pay a 10% VAT tax on everything you purchase?

And yes I'm a conservative Independent.

[ken horak]

What we really need is a FLAT TAX !
Would be the best and most fair to everyone. Everyone pays the same tax rate.
If the US would go to the flat tax at a rate of 20% of their earnings ( pay ,investment dividends,interest payments etc) the government would have more then enough money to operate and have a social security system for the retired.
But the few that make the laws (or influence those who do) will never let this happen as they are the ones who have the tax shelters and own business's that pay less tax then I do.
The US is in serious trouble and it's not getting any better in the real world , just on paper.

[Billy Stephens]

Mon Sewer.

.
Yeah Mr. Sewer,
*sorry Ted too easy of a Target.
.
SEWER Meaning and Definition - Dictionary - eLook.org
.

[Ron Bibler]

If Uncle Sam needs more money he just make 2 calls. one to us saying make a deposit please. and another to the mint please print me some more money please....

Better go make your deposit...

Or may-be you should set up a payment plan... that way you just don't see it going away

Its going to be a long time before you see any of your cash again...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

A few thoughts:

I just would like to know how his lordship plans on paying for everything he is doing!

Why, the very same way King W was paying for that very expensive war and rebuilding effort.

How else do you think? And why do you think this is different than that?

Sometimes I am just stunned by otherwise smart conservatives who cannot see the blanket pulled over their head by their King, but then decry anything and everything done or attempted by another.

[Ron Bibler]

but then decry anything and everything done or attempted by another.

Jerry have you set up your Tax payment plan yet ?

Happy days are hear %**^ (%( (% (*&_(e again

The tax man commeth...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry have you set up your Tax payment plan yet ?

Happy days are hear %**^ (%( (% (*&_(e again

The tax man commeth...

Best

Ron

Ron,

Yes I did, I had to under your King W.

The tax man already cameth ...

[Ron Bibler]

I will give this to Obama... he has let to Bush Tax cut stand...FOR NOW... and because of this my New $ 13K IR Camera is a wash as a 100% wright off

What do you think that will do to Aaron's taxes... L.O.L. Pay up Aaron...

thank you Aaron.... L.O.L.


Best

Ron

[Reggie Russell]

I really wanted to comment on this, even though this is not a political forum, but Scott said it so well that all I can do is echo his sentiment!

[mathew stouffer]

Amen Scott, Amen. My camera was a pretty sweet right off as well. Plus the truck, oh yes the truck.

[Jerry Peck]

When will the media honeymoon be over for Obama? Camelot is looking more like Disneyland.

That's because it is being brought back from the brink of looking like Iraq.

the health care program (Obamacare)

With the other choice being BushIgotmineYou?Idon'tcare lackofhealthcare plan.

And yes I'm a conservative Independent.

And yes, I am a middle of the road Independent who got fed up with King W and his King's Court.

The best thing I can say to all you conservatives is to give it the same 8 years King W got, and you will see that Camelot has returned.

Right now, I'll chose Disneyland over The Grinch Who Stole Christmas ... And Never Wised Up To Understand ANY Consequences To His Actions

'Cause he wanted to play army, and as President of the United States, HE COULD "play army".

[Ron Bibler]

Jerry you known better then that. G.W. Was not a conservative. he was so far to the left most conservative were sick of him and the way he went along with the Lift... spend spend spend. and now we have a nother spend freak in the White house.

But you support this spend freak... Why i don't know? Bush is gone lets look at the new guy and live in the hear and now.

Spend Spend Spend...

Best

Ron

[Ted Menelly]

.
Yeah Mr. Sewer,[/b]
*sorry Ted too easy of a Target.
.
SEWER Meaning and Definition - Dictionary - eLook.org
.

Yes Mr Willie

That was a dig to get Aaron going. I try that now and then but he knows what I am doing and does not bite. I knew he was dropping his little political thing and then sat back and laughed. He knew it would get the juices going.

[John Dirks Jr]

I got one word for you. Skeptical. No, two words. Very skeptical.

I'm willing to wait it out but I think the love affair is clouding the waters, not to mention that some are just flat out closing their eyes.

[Jerry Peck]

Jerry you known better then that. G.W. Was not a conservative. he was so far to the left most conservative were sick of him and the way he went along with the Lift... spend spend spend. and now we have a nother spend freak in the White house.

But you support this spend freak... Why i don't know? Bush is gone lets look at the new guy and live in the hear and now.

Spend Spend Spend...

Best

Ron

Ron,

You will never understand, you are too committed to your stance to think about other options.

[Ron Bibler]

I understand that if i run up my city bank card to the max im going to get a biil i can't pay

Obama is running up our city bank card and we do not have the money to pay that bill.

Dang man...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

I understand that if i run up my city bank card to the max im going to get a biil i can't pay

Obama is running up our city bank card and we do not have the money to pay that bill.

Dang man...

Best

Ron

You just will not get it, it seems.

Like talking to a tree, and I am not one to waste my time talking to trees.

[Michael Larson]

Why, the very same way King W was paying for that very expensive war and rebuilding effort.

How else do you think? And why do you think this is different than that?

Sometimes I am just stunned by otherwise smart conservatives who cannot see the blanket pulled over their head by their King, but then decry anything and everything done or attempted by another.

I'm sure you're right Jerry. Nothing to worry about here.


SOURCE: CBO, White House Office of Management and Budget | The Washington Post - March 21, 2009

[Ron Bibler]

I'm sure you're right Jerry. Nothing to worry about here.


SOURCE: CBO, White House Office of Management and Budget | The Washington Post - March 21, 2009

Excellent Michael...

Best

Ron

[Matt Vozzella]

..IR Camera is a wash as a 100% wright off

My camera was a pretty sweet right off as well.

For what it's worth, I'm registered Rep. but couldn't stand GW and most of his administration with the exception of Powell.
Hope for the best............prepare for the worst.


write - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

[Scott Patterson]

A few more observations:

Did it not bother anyone when the President of France told Obama that he was trying to provide and do to much and that he needed to slow down? France the most socialized country in the World was saying Obama was doing to much!

Why is China starting to cash in their US dollars for gold?

Why have mortgage interest rates started to rise?

Did it not bother you when Obama apologized to his middle east audience last week for the US reaction to 9/11?

[Matt Vozzella]

Did it not bother you when Obama apologized to his middle east audience last week for the US reaction to 9/11?

Source? If you were referring to the speech in Cairo I scanned the text and only came across this:

And finally, just as America can never tolerate violence by extremists, we must never alter our principles. 9/11 was an enormous trauma to our country. The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable, but in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our ideals. We are taking concrete actions to change course. I have unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States

That doesn't sound like an apology.

[A.D. Miller]

JP and the Few Others on this Board with Common Sense:

I only posted this so that the Refublicans would have a place to vent and play. It was simply a way to prevent so much of their neo-con blather on other threads.

Please not that the original article posted was from the NAHB. A more died in the wool conservative group cannot be found. If the builders are backing the administration that shines a very strong light on those who are not. It means that the detractors are the Neanderthals they appear to be.

Didn't I just read an article about how the Homo Sapiens eliminated the competing Neanderthals?

I'll take mine medium rare, please.

[A.D. Miller]

And, by the way, the guy pictured below already has the title of "Most Conservative Man of the Year". Rush, Newt, and other wanabees move over.

Though you may think your god's weenie is bigger than his god's, you are all in the same sick boat.

[Michael Larson]

JP and the Few Others on this Board with Common Sense:

Here is wishing both of you can find some

I guess facts and figures are meaningless compared to the emotion of GWB hatred.

[Scott Patterson]

Source? If you were referring to the speech in Cairo I scanned the text and only came across this:

And finally, just as America can never tolerate violence by extremists, we must never alter our principles. 9/11 was an enormous trauma to our country. The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable, but in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our ideals. We are taking concrete actions to change course. I have unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States

That doesn't sound like an apology.

The section I highlighted does not sound like a US President that I would want defending my country. It sounds like a politician trying to get everyone to like him.

[A.D. Miller]

The section I highlighted does not sound like a US President that I would want defending my country. It sounds like a politician trying to get everyone to like him.

SP: And, with the glib PC diplomacy that you ooze, is that not exactly what you do as well? Is that not what makes a politician a politician?

[Ron Bibler]

Aaron and Jerry From what i can see you have no understanding what a conservative is or what we want as true conservatives. if you under stood this you would not alway point to GWB as a conservative.


A true conservative is me or you on our own doing what we want when we want to do it. True individualism... pay your own way.


A true Liberal wants to tell me i can't do what i want when i want
to do it. but they will will turn and do what they want at our expense.

And you say I'm an oak?

Best

Ron

[A.D. Miller]

Aaron and Jerry From what i can see you have no understanding what a conservative is or what we want as true conservatives. if you under stood this you would not alway point to GWB as a conservative.


A true conservative is me or you on our own doing what we want when we want to do it. True individualism... pay your own way.


A true Liberal wants to tell me i can't do what i want when i want
to do it. but they will will turn and do what they want at our expense.

And you say I'm an oak?

Best

Ron

RB:

According to Webster's a conservative is one who adheres to the philosophy of conservatism. Conservatism is a disposition in politics to preserve what is established.

These are not my definitions, but Webster's, meaning that they are accepted by the majority of English speakers in this nation.

So then, if we are agreed on terminology, let's take a brief look at what that means. To conserve what is established is to eschew change. The only thing in this life that you can be assured of is change. Therefore, conservatism is counterintuitive. It is a ridiculous stance that is only taken by those who exercise the necessary amount of a combination of both hubris and ignorance that leads them to believe that stopping change is an option.

It is not.

[Ron Bibler]

RB:

According to Webster's a conservative is one who adheres to the philosophy of conservatism. Conservatism is a disposition in politics to preserve what is established.

These are not my definitions, but Webster's, meaning that they are accepted by the majority of English speakers in this nation.

So then, if we are agreed on terminology, let's take a brief look at what that means. To conserve what is established is to eschew change. The only thing in this life that you can be assured of is change. Therefore, conservatism is counterintuitive. It is a ridiculous stance that is only taken by those who exercise the necessary amount of a combination of both hubris and ignorance that leads them to believe that stopping change is an option.

It is not.

You just provied my point You want to control others and what they say and what they do.

Thank you very much but i will do as i dang well please...

Go your own way and control you own life...

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

According to Webster's a conservative is one who adheres to the philosophy of conservatism. Conservatism is a disposition in politics to preserve what is established.

These are not my definitions, but Webster's, meaning that they are accepted by the majority of English speakers in this nation.

Gee, I thought modern day conservatives. stood for small government, strong defense, maximum freedom, minimum government intrusion, low taxes, LEGAL immigration, adherence to the Constitution.....etc.

Boy, I'm sure glad you straightened me out.

[A.D. Miller]

Gee, I thought modern day conservatives. stood for small government, strong defense, maximum freedom, minimum government intrusion, low taxes, LEGAL immigration, adherence to the Constitution.....etc.

Boy, I'm sure glad you straightened me out.

ML: Nothing could straighten you out.

[A.D. Miller]

You just provied my point You want to control others and what they say and what they do.

Thank you very much but i will do as i dang well please...

Go your own way and control you own life...

Best

Ron

RB: You sir, are clearly bordering on idiothood.

[Ted Menelly]

RB: You sir, are clearly an idiot.

Man oh man.

I tried to get you to bite yesterday but you must have been waiting for particular bones like Ron and Michael.

I could not get a smirk going on those socialist lips of yours and these guys fired up your barbeque.

I don't know. Whats a man to do.

[A.D. Miller]

Man oh man.

I tried to get you to bite yesterday but you must have been waiting for particular bones like Ron and Michael.

I could not get a smirk going on those socialist lips of yours and these guys fired up your barabeque.

I don't know. Whats a man to do.

TM: Though you are certainly deserving of a shot of your very own, you did, after all, eventually land in Texas. That says something for you that can never be said of these two chumps.

[Reggie Russell]

Most people, when they read '1984', were scared. When Barack Obama read it, he started taking notes.

[A.D. Miller]

Most people, when they read '1984', were scared. When Barack Obama read it, he started taking notes.

RR: True, because most people are sheep.

[Michael Larson]

Chump eh?

Texas is too warm for my blood..

I sure notice how quickly weeny liberals(oops is that name calling) default to name calling instead of reasoned argument.

So tell us Mr. Miller, just what has Obama accomplished besides not being Bush?

I'm sure there must be something you're quite proud of.

[Markus Keller]

Looking for work? Check if your Community is getting NSP funding. Involves Insp work, possibly lots depending on how much mort fraud in your area.

[Michael Larson]

Does discussing politics bother you Markus?

[A.D. Miller]

Texas is too warm for my blood..

ML: Mine too, and yet, here I am.

I sure notice how quickly weeny liberals(oops is that name calling) default to name calling instead of reasoned argument.

ML: Slip of the tounge corrected if you noticed.

So tell us Mr. Miller, just what has Obama accomplished besides not being Bush?

ML: That, in and of itself, would be enough for me.

[David Nice]

ML: That, in and of itself, would be enough for me.

It is sad that there are people so intrenched in the climate the media spent 8+ years to destroy public confidence in GWB. Through the better part of his terms, the economy was thriving and growing. Day after day the media worked to convince the public that the economy was bad. Next they took on the Iraq war and hammered away the public until the public got tired of the war and many began to stop supporting it.

Obama spent 2 years as a community organizer strong arming banks and mortgage companies to offer mortgages to unqualified people. Barney Frank and others worked to make it easier to provide these risky loans. Even when Fanny and Freddy were in deep trouble it wasstill full steam ahead, building a disaster waiting to happen.

Even GWB got on the banwagon and spoke at a state of the union message about how everyone who wanted a home should be able to get that part of the American Dream and lent his support to what congress was doing. His biggest mistake was acting like a democrat on domestic issues.

The financial community did what the finacial community does and created profitable fund packages that included risky mortgages. Mind you, not a Democrat on the planet believed that these mortages were "risky", uit apparently it is all the financial community's fault for using them as investments. After all, every good Democrat believe these loans were made to deserving people who would pay the loans back just like qualified people would do.

Even if the financial community did not touch those loans, we were still facing the biggest home forclosure rate (possibly) ever!

As far as I can see, we now have the foxes guarding the hen house, thanks to people like A.D. who have been successfully manipulated by the media and would (and probably did) vote for anyone as long is it was not GWB.

Not exactly the kind of "critical thinking" American voters need.

[Ron Bibler]

Only the ones that have an interest in something will be redirected by there new understand that some one is after what they have... If the Dem's can keep you thinking you will get something for nothing then the masses will fallow in step. If i have understood anything in my 53 years is that people walk in there own understanding and they have moved away from the things this country was founded on... A true conservative looks at the things that are under attack in this country...Only the ones that looks at these things with something to loose will understand this issue.

So if you see Obama as some one that is doing things you say are good ? Then i would say to you you are looking for something for free... and your core thinking is not directed by the things this country was founded on.

Answer this Question and you will understand what say.

Q. At what point would you say you are paying to much in TAXES ?

Is it 20% 30% 40% 50% 60% 70% 80% 90%

With the amount of spending Obama is has been doing in the last 6 months we are going to be paying taxes on the upper end at some point.

If he had you paying 70% or 80% even Aaron would say OUCH

Best

Ron

[A.D. Miller]

If he had you paying 70% or 80% even Aaron would say OUCH

RB: Maybe. That would depend upon what I was getting in return for my investment.

[Michael Larson]

RB: Maybe. That would depend upon what I was getting in return for my investment.

If you get through the government I can personally guarantee it will cost you more than buying it yourself.

[A.D. Miller]

If you get through the government I can personally guarantee it will cost you more than buying it yourself.

ML: No argument there. The question is this, can you even procure some things without the aid of government? For one isolated example, how would you proceed in protecting yourself against WMD. I mean the actual things and not those dreamt up by GWB and crew.

[Markus Keller]

ML: No I don't mind talking about politics. I generally avoid it though, especially with conservatives. Conservs have a tendency to hone in on a particular portion of a problem or statement and only discuss or account for that part of the overall situation that reinforces their opinion. Forget the bigger picture. The unwillingness to pull back and view the broader picture and remain ignorant of available facts to make a better long-term decision is rather remarkable.
In politics, as in life, proper decisions are based on a multitude of views and variables.
I'm not a huge Obama supporter. Some of what he is doing is I like, some not so much. The amount of spending is worrisome. However, do you really think GW's successors and cronies would be spending less in the next 8 years? I doubt it. They would be more low key about it.
Conservs love to talk about traditional american values and freedoms. Yet it is their very own politicians who have worked feverishly to curtail those freedoms (Patriot Act, TSA).
We have a President who says torture is NOT Ok. That's traditional american values. Not some jerk-off who wants to mince words about what is or isn't torture.
I saw the beginnings of the mortgage crisis in 03. Didn't understand fully what I was seeing until probably 05. Both sides are to blame. Our culture is to blame. Not everyone should be a homeowner for many reasons. Not everyone should get lots of credit.
When we finally throw off the prehistoric shackles of the US vs. THEM, then maybe we can speak in a more cohesive voice. It is, WE THE PEOPLE. Our country and our people need to seriously alter our life model to prosper in the future. Our current model is not sustainable.
BTW, our best and brightest minds don't run for political office, then know better.

[Ron Bibler]

Markus. you make my point way better then i could. Only when something effect a person will they open there eyes. This is why people will turn on one another. Be it perception by the new media like the War or a Big Tax bill thats coming.

Markus you see that comming... You pointed that out in your post

Best

Ron

[David Nice]

...Not some jerk-off who wants to mince words...

Completely out of character for BO, but I guess you gotta give the devil his due.

[Michael Larson]

ML: No I don't mind talking about politics. I generally avoid it though, especially with conservatives. Conservs have a tendency to hone in on a particular portion of a problem or statement and only discuss or account for that part of the overall situation that reinforces their opinion. Forget the bigger picture.

Funny I find it very difficult to talk with most liberals.

I actually enjoy it when I find one that is a true believers and knows why and can articulate his opinions instead of relying on emotional appeals, straw men and fuzzy logic.

With all the real issues before us you find it necessary to bring up the particular issue "torture" without defining what it is or if the US has even done it.

It is such a small issue in the big picture as to be laughable.

We are facing very serous challenges as a direct result of Obama's policies and profligate spending and not because of his stance on water boarding.

I'm asking what has Obama done that is changing things for the better?

[Markus Keller]

It isn't worthwhile to get into a tit-for-tat in regards to what Obama has or has not done. That isn't a discussion, it's a set-up for an immature argument. If you can't see/find ANYTHING that the President has done to improve the situation moving forward then no amount of discussion is going to make a difference. You won't change thought because you don't want to.
I find it appalling that you would consider the previous President, having adopted torture as standard operating practice, 'a small issue as to be laughable'. You should be ashamed of yourself. Our founding fathers were greater Men than that. This country was founded in part by people escaping tyranny and torture. It never ceases to amaze me how people can revert to primal behaviour when they allow their ignorance to create fear that overtakes reasonable thought.
Once again a Conserv diverted from the overall picture of torture and honed in on waterboarding to make his point. I never mentioned waterboarding. Last I heard, a few days ago actually. There are probably only 2-3 'verifiable' instances of waterboarding. The request that I should define torture for a guy who uses the lead from clock work orange as his avatar is really pretty funny.
As stated previously, I'm not a huge Obama fan. I like some of what he has done, some of it not so much. It's amazing how people love to blame a guy who's only been in power for 6 months. The short term mentality in this situation is indicative of our society's need for immediate gratification. GW got us here, Obama will likely get us out of it. Regardless of who is in power it is a minimum 2-3 year cycle to get even keel. Then probably another 1-3 to get the party rolling again.
As long as politicians and special interest groups can keep the people divided, short term personal benefit will reign in DC. Unfortunately our politicians, and many Americans, don't have to balls or brains to take on the difficult problems that provide virtually no immediate benefits. It is tackling those issues that will keep America great into the future.

[Ron Bibler]

Dude water boarding is not torture... If some one was after my Grand kids they would understand what torture was real fast. Biker style...

Get over the Pansy stuff...

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

It isn't worthwhile to get into a tit-for-tat in regards to what Obama has or has not done. That isn't a discussion, it's a set-up for an immature argument. If you can't see/find ANYTHING that the President has done to improve the situation moving forward then no amount of discussion is going to make a difference. You won't change thought because you don't want to.

Tit for tat may be fun but not helpful to address our very real and systemic problems.

I am willing to give Obama credit for what ever truly positive things he may have accomplished and I am only asking what those may be from others perspectives.
They either exist or they don't.

I find it appalling that you would consider the previous President, having adopted torture as standard operating practice, 'a small issue as to be laughable'. You should be ashamed of yourself. Our founding fathers were greater Men than that. This country was founded in part by people escaping tyranny and torture. It never ceases to amaze me how people can revert to primal behaviour when they allow their ignorance to create fear that overtakes reasonable thought.

I find it interesting that you are wiling to call waterboarding "torture". For me, it pales in comparison with the cutting off heads and body parts or doing real permanent damage to one's person. It was carefully thought out and supporting legal opinion and procedure were carefully followed.

Once again a Conserv diverted from the overall picture of torture and honed in on waterboarding to make his point. I never mentioned waterboarding. Last I heard, a few days ago actually. There are probably only 2-3 'verifiable' instances of waterboarding. The request that I should define torture for a guy who uses the lead from clock work orange as his avatar is really pretty funny.

If you are not willing to define it, the term becomes nothing more that a play on one's emotions. We all hopefully think real torture is bad and beyond what Americans are willing to or should do. Do you know of other torture that was carried out by Americans?

As stated previously, I'm not a huge Obama fan. I like some of what he has done, some of it not so much. It's amazing how people love to blame a guy who's only been in power for 6 months. The short term mentality in this situation is indicative of our society's need for immediate gratification. GW got us here, Obama will likely get us out of it. Regardless of who is in power it is a minimum 2-3 year cycle to get even keel. Then probably another 1-3 to get the party rolling again.

As I see it, Obama is only doing more of the very same that got us into this mess and hoping for a different result. Isn't that the working definition of insanity?
Perhaps I am wrong, please correct me.

As long as politicians and special interest groups can keep the people divided, short term personal benefit will reign in DC. Unfortunately our politicians, and many Americans, don't have to balls or brains to take on the difficult problems that provide virtually no immediate benefits. It is tackling those issues that will keep America great into the future.

Should those of us who strongly disagree with Obama's policies just shut up?

How else can we effect real change?

Debate is healthy in a free society. I hope you agree.

[Ted Menelly]

A little off thread here but I will post it anyway

Right after we moved into Iraq, or should I say about 20 days after, we started finding a multitude of mass graves. One they found almost right away was a mass grave of 3200 Shea's or however you spell that sect. They were slaughtered and half were buried alive for defying Sadam in 1991.

The total to date on the mass grave seen is over 300,000 soles that Sadam put in "their place" for defying him.

You want to talk about torture. The people involved in all that slaughter should have been rounded up, tried and if found guilty of involvement, locked up and then tortured at least once a week or until the day of their death in prison.

The folks involved in Africa that were involved in going from village to village hacking entire villages up with machetes just to instill fear on the coming event at the next village should be rounded up, tried, if found guilty, put in prison and tortured once a week for the rest of their lives until their day of death in prison.

The raper of a 8 year old girl, if tried and found guilty with out doubt should be locked up and tortured once a week for the rest of the days until his death in prison.

If hitler was captured he should have been locked up and little tiny pieces of his body should have bean burned off weekly until the day of his death in prison.

Sadam should have been locked up and for his partaking of burying people alive, gassing them, torturing them, slaughtering them should have had the same done to him over and over until the day of his death in prison.

Now before anyone goes spatting that our founding fathers did not have that intention in mind for the American people and all that guff let me say this.

I would not have done or would I expect anyone else to do all that I have just mentioned but it is certainly a wonderful freaking thought for certain soles in this world.

Is water boarding torture....absolutely not, especially when our government laid it all out to the world that we are going to be all smiley and forgiving for all their horendous acts like downing our jets and blowing up New York and killing thouisands.

Hey (who ever) go blow up all those folks with explosives and nails in this package and don't worry about getting caught because all the US can do is give you a spanking. Oh yeah, the spanking won't be that bad because they cannot leave any marks. They cannot even yell at you to loud or to long.

Yes, we are loving caring and giving smiley human beings and should treat everyone with forgiveness and smiles.....no matter what they may do to thousands of other happy, smiley, giving, caring, loving, forgiving human beings.

[Billy Stephens]

Less than 6 months in the office and Barack is digging us out of the Bush Hole.

Total US jobless rolls drop sharply to nearly 6.7M - Builder Magazine

Republicans take your besst shot.

.
WowThe Number of People RECEIVING Unemployment Benefits are down.
.
BLS: Tennessee mass layoffs jump in May - Memphis Business Journal:

[Markus Keller]

Another God and country loving conservative gets busted cheating on his wife. At least this time it's with a woman. You know how those right wingers feel about equal rights for all.

[Billy Stephens]

.

" It All Depends on What Your Definition of Is Is. "
.

[George Bronx]

I generally avoid it though, especially with conservatives.

Funny I find it very difficult to talk with most liberals.

The definition of conservative and liberal only depend on who is in power. Even the most vocal liberal becomes a staunch conservative after the revolution.

[Michael Larson]

The definition of conservative and liberal only depend on who is in power. Even the most vocal liberal becomes a staunch conservative after the revolution.

Will there be a revolution?

I don't know.

It depends on how many people want their country back from the liberal elite who insist we are too dumb to manage our own lives.


The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
-Thomas Jefferson

[A.D. Miller]

Another God and country loving conservative gets busted cheating on his wife. At least this time it's with a woman. You know how those right wingers feel about equal rights for all.

MK: I just came back to check on the ruckus here and find your words of wisdom tucked neatly here among the water-boarding and blood-letting blather.

You, my friend, have obviously stumbled into the wrong thread. Come back out here with the rational folks.

[Michael Larson]

MK: I just came back to check on the ruckus here and find your words of wisdom tucked neatly here among the water-boarding and blood-letting blather.

You, my friend, have obviously stumbled into the wrong thread. Come back out here with the rational folks.

Still waiting for the Obamites to tell us just what he has gotten right so far.

There must be something.