Joe the Plumber

[Billy Stephens]

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likely reality on 11/5.............President Elect Obama.

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[David Banks]

Its all irrelevant.

McCain, Obama or Obama, McCain. No matter which way one goes we will still be in trouble for some time.

Being neither for Obama or McCain and trying to way the difference my personal opinion is McCain being the more centrist candidate I believe he would actually do the more good.

I came from THE democratic state and seeing what an all democratic society is really all about I am not quite sure that what I witnessed for 36 years in Mass why anyone would want an all democratic Government.

In Mass you had folks with money and those with out. In the many years since I left Mass it has become more of some low income, many middle income and some filthy stinking rich. I would certainly like to see it stay more toward the last couple decades than the decades before that.

We truly do need a more central type government. No extreme in either direction. It might not be McCain that is needed but it is certainly not Obama. McCain has always been more the outsider in the republican party. Obama is the true definition of Democrat.

Watch out what you folks wish for. You might just get it.

You will see a very flat economy if Obama gets in. Clinton (the original) would be better than the Obama camp.

One more opinion that I jokingly expressed was that I do believe the best President out of the 2 runners for Pres and the 2 runners for Vice Pres, are you ready?????

Palin. She is the most centrist than the other three. I do believe that she would be the one to build the strongest middle class there has been in some time.

Yeah, yeah. I don't have any other choices but the 4 going for the big tickets. She is just the choice of those 4.

Ted. What the hell are you talking about. I do not know where you grew up but the town I grew up in and most Suburban towns were mostly middle class and we all knew where the poor areas were. 1-2 streets in town.
I do not even remember a lot of rich people.
Everyone loves to bash MA but it is all ignorant rhetoric. I have been all over this country and we are no different. There are cities, suburbs and real rural areas in western MA that are no different than any other place.
Being New England it is actually a very conservative place in some ways. People are very frugal and get outside the city and they like their guns as much as anyone.

[Ron Bibler]

Look i feel fine now. and if Obama is the man. i will feel just fine.

We will see.

I just stand on what i think is correct about the guy. I don"t like him. he picks on a plumber and trashs him on national TV.
and people sit back a say hes great and makes them feel good.

That just blows me away...

It is amazing to see very smart people look the other way at this guy.

( They shall call good evil and evil good )

Best

Ron

[Kevin Luce]

If somebody on this chat would go up to Obama or McCain and tell one of them that they are a home inspector in a licensed state and they plan on buying a home inspection company that makes $250K a year and we found out that it was a complete lie, I think most of us would call him out. Then if he really did do home inspections without being licensed in that licensed state, many of us would be on his case if not doing more.

Poor Joe? I don't think so.

[Rick Hurst]

Kevin,

What your missing though is in this great country one can buy a Plumbing Company or a Home Inspection company and not be Licensed to actually perform either job.

You just go to be ready to share the wealth.

rick

[Ted Menelly]

Ted. What the hell are you talking about. I do not know where you grew up but the town I grew up in and most Suburban towns were mostly middle class and we all knew where the poor areas were. 1-2 streets in town.
I do not even remember a lot of rich people.
Everyone loves to bash MA but it is all ignorant rhetoric. I have been all over this country and we are no different. There are cities, suburbs and real rural areas in western MA that are no different than any other place.
Being New England it is actually a very conservative place in some ways. People are very frugal and get outside the city and they like their guns as much as anyone.

David

That was not very nice of you. I am in my mid fifties and I was talking of decades ago. This is what I said

"In Mass you had folks with money and those with out. In the many years since I left Mass it has become more of some low income, many middle income and some filthy stinking rich. I would certainly like to see it stay more toward the last couple decades than the decades before that".

I grew up in the south shore of Mass for 36 years. It was seriously all democratic for a good portion of my younger years.

I guess it is relative to what you call middle class. To be middle class in Mass nowadays you have to be able to afford a 400,000.00 home. Six years ago my daughter bought a home for 435,000 and sold it for 485,000. This was a 1500 79 year old home. It was a postage stamp size lot in Medford. The house even had issues.

Please tell me what income level you have to be at to buy a 485,000 dollar home. Tell me where the loading dock guy that has a wife that works in walmart lives. Or what chance they have of buying a 450,000.00 home. So much for a Democratic state looking out for the little guy. Between the two of them working their income isn't to bad but what chance do they have for a chance of home ownership.

I personally made a lot of money in Mass. Of course that was when there was not a down turn in the economy. Which there was once a year.

Not picking on your state David. It is a beautiful place. Ocean right there, mountains to the west and north. Rolling winding roads and some towns still around with quaint little squares.

But I would never move back there for construction or home inspection. Way to many ups and downs.

Don't take it to heart Dave.

What is the income level needed to buy almost a half million dollar home and still eat????

Oh yeah, as a little kid in Abington Mass I was poor. I went into middle level and then to almost upper level income. I have been in all stages of the income level. Again it is all relative to what one depicts middle income, both then and now. My thinking of middle income leans toward the side of upper middle income. Poor is living week to week or worse.

Why does everyone get so personal ?

[Jerry Peck]

The plumbers i known have 12 to 20 plumbers working for them...

I think Ron means that the Plumbing Contractors (Owners of the business) have 15-20 employees.

Rick has it.

You have trip over a little thing.

Ron,

No, I did not trip over it, I knew what you *meant to say*, however, I could only respond based on what you *did say*.

I was simply pointing out that what you say cannot be regarded as fact, not even the other things you say ... such as about Obama being bad and McCain being good ... you simply type what you want to type and believer what you want to believe, and saying one thing then meaning something else, well, it goes with your free speech.

Go for it.

I can't believe that Joe the Plumber is still hawking his 15 minutes of fame, knowing that whatever he has said has been a lie ... wait ... I can believe it ... he is not interested in the truth, he only wants his 15 minutes of fame. And he's got Palin and McCain using him to represent his lies and their lies, kind of befitting, if you ask me (and you did not ask, but I answered anyway ).

[David Banks]

David

That was not very nice of you. I am in my mid fifties and I was talking of decades ago. This is what I said

"In Mass you had folks with money and those with out. In the many years since I left Mass it has become more of some low income, many middle income and some filthy stinking rich. I would certainly like to see it stay more toward the last couple decades than the decades before that".

I grew up in the south shore of Mass for 36 years. It was seriously all democratic for a good portion of my younger years.

I guess it is relative to what you call middle class. To be middle class in Mass nowadays you have to be able to afford a 400,000.00 home. Six years ago my daughter bought a home for 435,000 and sold it for 485,000. This was a 1500 79 year old home. It was a postage stamp size lot in Medford. The house even had issues.

Please tell me what income level you have to be at to buy a 485,000 dollar home. Tell me where the loading dock guy that has a wife that works in walmart lives. Or what chance they have of buying a 450,000.00 home. So much for a Democratic state looking out for the little guy. Between the two of them working their income isn't to bad but what chance do they have for a chance of home ownership.

I personally made a lot of money in Mass. Of course that was when there was not a down turn in the economy. Which there was once a year.

Not picking on your state David. It is a beautiful place. Ocean right there, mountains to the west and north. Rolling winding roads and some towns still around with quaint little squares.

But I would never move back there for construction or home inspection. Way to many ups and downs.

Don't take it to heart Dave.

What is the income level needed to buy almost a half million dollar home and still eat????

Oh yeah, as a little kid in Abington Mass I was poor. I went into middle level and then to almost upper level income. I have been in all stages of the income level. Again it is all relative to what one depicts middle income, both then and now. My thinking of middle income leans toward the side of upper middle income. Poor is living week to week or worse.

Why does everyone get so personal ?

Not personal. Just think it is not good for the country when blanket false statements are made for your political gain.
I grew up in the 50's, 60's and 70's in central MA. I agree with the ups and downs. But it has nothing to do with Democrats. This area has been growing since the Pilgrims. Not a lot of land left,hence the cost of housing.
You moved to Texas-lots of land cheap. People are migrating to warmer less expensive areas. Good for you. But do not give credit to Republicans. Nothing to do with it.
I do not know where your daughter bought her home but I live 20 miles west of Boston great area, great schools, one of the highest income areas in the country and you can get a decent sized colonial for 485,000.
But yes it is expensive here. Supply and demand.
No hard feelings I enjoy your post.
Peace, love and Ti Dye!

[Ron Bibler]

Not personal. Just think it is not good for the country when blanket false statements are made for your political gain.
I grew up in the 50's, 60's and 70's in central MA. I agree with the ups and downs. But it has nothing to do with Democrats. This area has been growing since the Pilgrims. Not a lot of land left,hence the cost of housing.
You moved to Texas-lots of land cheap. People are migrating to warmer less expensive areas. Good for you. But do not give credit to Republicans. Nothing to do with it.
I do not know where your daughter bought her home but I live 20 miles west of Boston great area, great schools, one of the highest income areas in the country and you can get a decent sized colonial for 485,000.
But yes it is expensive here. Supply and demand.
No hard feelings I enjoy your post.
Peace, love and Ti Dye!

Ti Dye! sucks... Sorry i just can't stand that stuff.

Its like disco. sucks.

Best

Ron

[Rick Hurst]

Ron, the Boogey Man.
You know you loved that disco.

I bet you have a number of those silk shirts back then.

rick

YouTube - BEE GEES Staying' alive 1977

[Victor DaGraca]

Imagine pissing off a whole political party to the extent that they give you a colonoscopy.
Since when does a political party have the constitutional authority to investigate a private citizen?

Forget Joe the plumber and concentrate on Osama's statement.

"We're going to spread the wealth around"

Two words.... Marx and Lenin.

Go ahead and raise corporate taxes.
How're you going to collect when they move to Ireland?

[Billy Stephens]

Ron, the Boogey Man.
You know you loved that disco.

I bet you have a number of those silk shirts back then.

rick

YouTube - BEE GEES Staying' alive 1977

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And a Few Pair of These.
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[Kevin Luce]

I feel McCain using Joe the so call plumber to try to get ahead is as bad as picking Palin as a running mate. Just another lier.

Here's more screw-ups by Palin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel_10

[Billy Stephens]

I feel McCain using Joe the so call plumber to try to get ahead is as bad as picking Palin as a running mate. Just another lier.

Here is another screw up by Palin.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel_10

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Kevin,

WOW! $21 G's sense 2006 Just so the Woman can take her kids ( and watch them ) just to do The State of Alaska's Business as Governor.

I don''t think you want to go the lair route.
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[Kevin Luce]

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Kevin,

WOW! $21 G's sense 2006 Just so the Woman can take her kids ( and watch them ) just to do The State of Alaska's Business as Governor.

I don''t think you want to go the lair route.
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Palin should have higher standards than home inspectors. If I remember right, ASHI member can't do anything that has the appearance of doing something wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel_10

"On Aug. 6, three weeks before Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain chose Palin his running mate, and after Alaska reporters asked for the records, Palin ordered changes to previously filed expense reports for her daughters' travel."

[Jerry Peck]

Forget Joe the plumber and concentrate on Osama's statement.

"We're going to spread the wealth around"

First, Victor, not much of what you say on this is to be believed, heck, you cannot even get the name right.

Forget that Joe The Plumber was another of McCain's bad decisions?

Regarding the latter: "spread the wealth around" ... That is EXACTLY what we have been doing in this country since it was founded - for those who do not know or recognize it, it is called "taxes".

What do you think got us out of The Great Depression? Businesses taking the reins and pulling together to make it work?

What? You laughed so hard you puked?

It was that Big Bad Government which held steady and pulled this country around, by "spreading the wealth around".

Poor people in poverty can't BUY anything, so if you don't PAY PEOPLE WELL, you will not have many customers to buy your stuff. If you do not have many customers, you don't sell much. If you don't sell much, you don't need anyone to make it for you. If you don't need anyone to make it for you, you will not have anyone who can buy it from you. Wait, isn't that where we started?

Spreading the wealth makes everyone wealthier, or at least those who understand the process.

If you had all the money in the world, what could you buy? Think about it before you answer. You know you can't sell anything, no one has any money, you have it all. Answer: Nothing. Because as soon as you bought something you would no longer have all the money in the world. The only way to prosper is to "spread the wealth around".

By the way, for those of you who think Obama is going to "spread the wealth around" and McCain is not ... the difference in their tax plan for those over $250k per year income is the difference between 36% and 39% ... 3%. McCain is going to "spread the wealth around" too.

Let's say your taxable income is $250,000

McCain is going to "spread the wealth" around to the tune of $90,000!

Obama is only going to add another $7,500 to that.

The difference is McCain will give it to his buddies making $5 mil and over, and Obama will give to a lot of different people.

Again, if you cannot buy something, someone else cannot sell it ... ring any bells? Business been down lately?

If they cannot buy it, you ain't gonna sell it. You are looking that horse dead in the mouth right now, and you can see how dead it is getting, with the forecasters only predicting it will get worse before it gets better.

[Billy Stephens]

Palin should have higher standards than home inspectors. If I remember right, ASHI member can't do anything that has the appearance of doing something wrong.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081021/ap_on_el_pr/palin_family_travel_10

"On Aug. 6, three weeks before Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain chose Palin his running mate, and after Alaska reporters asked for the records, Palin ordered changes to previously filed expense reports for her daughters' travel."

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Quote from your link.

"The Palins began charging the state for commercial flights after the governor kept a campaign promise to sell a jet bought by her predecessor."

Private jet upkeep ( maintenance ) estimated @ $5,000 per month. Flight time ( Private jet) estimated @ $ 1,500 per flight hour.

24 months maintenance @ $5,000 ( low because it would be held by State Workers) $120,000.

100 Flight hours ( low for a Governor of any State.) = $150,000.

Payment on a Private Jet ( Guess??) $250,000 a month X 24 months = $6 million.

Estimated Cost to The State of Alaska to keep and maintain a private Jet for discretionary use of The Governor estimated @ $ 3.1 million dollars per year.

You run The Numbers on Flying Commercial ( the whole family ).

And This article is saying She may have cheated The State of $21,000 to bring her own children along on State Functions?

Being a Home Inspector you are aware anyone can allege anything about You.

[Michael Larson]

What do you think got us out of The Great Depression? Businesses taking the reins and pulling together to make it work?

Jerry, most of know that WW2 is what got us out of the Great depression.

Maybe you're too young to remember.

[Ron Bibler]

It was the war Jerry that got the country working. it was not the Big Bad Government which held steady and pulled this country around, by "spreading the wealth around".

The big bad Goverment got in the way. By taxing the people and put controls on the people. they would not let the small business man run his company the way he wanted to.

One thinks one way

And Obama thinks even more to the L. of center like Marx and Lenin.

Obama just want to incress taxes and put controls on us.

I know some will just (BLUR) the facts and say they all want to
"spread the wealth around"

At this time we need the goverment to just get out of the way...
Keep things just the way they are and the people will find a way.

We got out from under one KING...200 plus years ago And now some want to go back to the KING.

I say no thanks.

Best

Ron

[Kevin Luce]

I just don't understand when somebody does something that is not required, why can't they ask themselves if what they are about to do has the appearance of doing something wrong. If so, then don't do it.

"On Aug. 6, three weeks before Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain chose Palin his running mate, and after Alaska reporters asked for the records, Palin ordered changes to previously filed expense reports for her daughters' travel."

This has the appearance that she did something wrong. I guess we'll see where this will lead.

Just to let you know, even though McCain was sucking up to Bush for a long time, I thought the true McCain was going to come out and I was ready to vote for him at the beginning. He screwed up so much in so many ways that I can't do it now.

When it comes to the great things each has to say about their plans on oil and the economy, who cares! Like it's going to happen.

[Billy Stephens]

When it comes to what each has to say about oil and the economy, who cares! Like it's going to happen.

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It's going to be rough for The Country no matter who wins.
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[Ted Menelly]

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It's going to be rough for The Country no matter who wins.
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Billy

It already is bad. I have the top of page paid for spot on google (first time I ever paid for positioning, monthly deal, no contract, we will see if it helps). I am number 4 or 5 next to the google map. I am #1 or 2 in the organic search in google for Fort Worth Home Inspectors. In 5 days I just got one call today for an inspection when ever the power gets turned on and I just got an email for a 16000 squ ft apartment building. Don't know if I will get either one of them. This is coming from a guy that just had a fantastic year until a month ago.

Yep. I think the bad times are already here.

Keep your fingers crossed for me for the apartment building.

[Billy Stephens]

Keep your fingers crossed for me for the apartment building.

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[Jerry Peck]

Jerry, most of know that WW2 is what got us out of the Great depression.

It was the war Jerry that got the country working. it was not the Big Bad Government which held steady and pulled this country around, by "spreading the wealth around".

Not quite correct.

I said:

What do you think got us out of The Great Depression? Businesses taking the reins and pulling together to make it work?

What? You laughed so hard you puked?

It was that Big Bad Government which held steady and pulled this country around, by "spreading the wealth around".

The Great Depression started in 1929, the WWII effort started around 1939, it was that Big Bad Government which got us through that 10 year period between them.

The WWII effort finally brought about 'the end" of The Great Depression, but THERE WAS NO "war economy" for that first 10 year period.

Yep, that Big Bad Government pulled everyone through The Great Depression (everyone it could pull through). Don't kid yourselves, there was no WWII from 1929 to 1939 and no "war economy" either.

[Jerry Peck]

We got out from under one KING...200 plus years ago And now some want to go back to the KING.

We were under King Richard earlier (oh, wait, he was Republican too, wasn't he) and we have been under King W for 8 years (he sure has been acting like he was a King and not a President).

How about that? Two recent Republican Kings. Now you expect us to be under King McCain?

[Ted Menelly]

Not quite correct.

I said:


The Great Depression started in 1929, the WWII effort started around 1939, it was that Big Bad Government which got us through that 10 year period between them.

The WWII effort finally brought about 'the end" of The Great Depression, but THERE WAS NO "war economy" for that first 10 year period.

Yep, that Big Bad Government pulled everyone through The Great Depression (everyone it could pull through). Don't kid yourselves, there was no WWII from 1929 to 1939 and no "war economy" either.

The gov put countless people to work with the biggest US infrastructure in all of the US existence putting the money in folks pockets to spend back into the economy. Bridges, roads etc. The building of the military structure for WWII even though it was gov paid for it put a tremendous amount of money back into the economy. Money in folks pockets to pay taxes on and spend the rest back into goods to support others that paid taxes on and put the money back into the economy.

The printing of money is not always a bad thing. When so many gain and so many pay taxes that eventually all that printed money gets taken care of. Businesses get built, more people go to work and blah, blah, blah.

[Ron Bibler]

So if what you say is correct Jerry and Ted. we should get the taxes up to 70 or 80% and start printing money like theres no end and that will fix things? what do they call that? Tax and spend?

Just today thats what Barney Frank stated that he was going to do.

Mr Frank words get the Taxes way up we need the money... what was it Bill Clinton did tax the SSI... Hold on...

So if Obama gets in you will have your wish...

Respect

Ron

[David Banks]

So if what you say is correct Jerry and Ted. we should get the taxes up to 70 or 80% and start printing money like theres no end and that will fix things? what do they call that? Tax and spend?

Just today thats what Barney Frank stated that he was going to do.

Mr Frank words get the Taxes way up we need the money... what was it Bill Clinton did tax the SSI... Hold on...

So if Obama gets in you will have your wish...

Respect

Ron

So you label Obama and Barney Frank tax and spend. What is Bush Spend and Deficit? Would you run your house like that? We are paying Billions in interest to China. So why should we vote for them? If anyone has created a Socialist, big government society it is not the Dem's. it is Bush. How Ironic.
Everyone is so uptight about taxes. What do we think has made this country so impressive with well built interstates that created business, infrastructure, Military, GI bill, etc. All paid by taxes. A fair tax system is not bad, lets just even the field a little. Even in Joe the plumbers case he would pay extra taxes on The difference between 250-280. 30,000. About 900.00 dollars more in taxes. But Obama is giving a tax credit for new employees and health insurance and Joe would probably end up better.

[Michael Larson]

It's way past time that we take Bush off the table. His term is finished.

He and the Republican party have not governed as conservatives. For the most part they have decided to act like the typical tax and spend Democrats without the taxes resulting if huge additions to the nations debt which BTW has gone up every year for decades no matter who was in office.

That said, It should be clear with a little analysis that Obama's stated policies to raise taxes for business and high income earners and to raise the capital gains taxes will result in less not more revenue to the Federal government.

How can this be you say?

Because when you decide to increase capital gains people are less likely to sell their capital and realize a capital gain which means less revenue for the fed. When capital gains taxes have been lowered in the past, revenues to the Fed increased.

When you increase the marginal income taxes rates for high income earners you take away the incentive to earn more because it will only be taken by the government at the higher rate.

When you increase taxes on business they are forced to do one of two things to stay profitable.
Either they reduce costs by doing more with fewer employees or they pass the increase in taxes along to the end user of their products which produces inflation.

On top of his tax proposals he wants to massively increase government spending for social programs further increasing the national deficit.

I think is is dangerous to adopt Obama's tax and spend policies just as we are entering a recession and slow down in activity.

I'm not thrilled with McCain either but the election of Obama is not what this country needs right now.

[Jerry Peck]

It's way past time that we take Bush off the table. His term is finished.

But his policies are not.

McCain will continue with many, if not most, of those same policies.

You and other want us to think Bush is gone, will be gone, yet there is McCain continuing to bring up Reagan, who is really gone - but not gone.

Why would anyone believe that Bush is/will be gone simply because he leaves office and another Republican steps in? Especially when the Republicans keep tying their policies to those who preceded them.

My wife and I, and our youngest daughter who was over for dinner two nights ago, all commented on how no discussions regarding politics or religion will change anyones mind, that those discussions are just a waste of time and effort.

That is true, so why not stop the back and forth and concentrate on other things?













Because this is more fun than just thinking 'What a jerk that person is.'

[Michael Larson]

Jerry,

You did not bother to address a single point of my post on Obama's policies.

You only complained about Bush and his policies.

Now if you wouldn't mind,

please discuss McCain's policy proposals and tell us how they will fail to improve our situation.

Mine and your minds are made up but others might benefit from the discussion.

[Jerry Peck]

You did not bother to address a single point of my post on Obama's policies.

Because your post did not need responding to in that aspect, but I did respond to one of the items in your post.[/quote]

It's way past time that we take Bush off the table. His term is finished.

No it is your turn to respond to that.

When you increase the marginal income taxes rates for high income earners you take away the incentive to earn more because it will only be taken by the government at the higher rate.

All that means is that they will go out and make a little more to compensate for it. Those people are smart people, they know they will be worse off if they go pout in a corner somewhere.

On top of his tax proposals he wants to massively increase government spending for social programs further increasing the national deficit.

Which is needed.

How can we, the greatest country in the world (at this time in history, we still are) NOT do what is right for its poor and downtrodden? We can't, we are obligated to help.

I'm not thrilled with McCain either

Good, because it will only continue to run us into the ground.

but the election of Obama is not what this country needs right now.

He is precisely what this country needs right now.

Our choices are between two people, one of whom is 'not the best there ever was' (Obama) and the other is 'not the worst there ever was' (McCain). Just because you cannot have 'the best there ever was' does not mean you go for 'not the worst there ever was'.

You (not 'you' as in singular, but 'you' as in plural, meaning all) do not know what kind of President a man will be until he is in there meeting the challenges which come up. McCain has too much baggage to lug around to be able to respond and do what is necessary.

Only time will tell, based on who is elected and how they fare versus what continues to come, but, with McCain, 'what continues to come' will be much closer to 'what we've been getting the last 8 years', and that has taken us down, way down, in the world view and in our presence in the world.

One thing we DO NOT NEED is '4 more years' of the same, or similar. Especially NOT WITH that Palin who is only a heart beat away.

The thought of what might happen if she had to take over simply sends chills down the spine, worse than any horror movie ever.

[Michael Larson]

How sad it is when the only argument Obama supporters have is McCain is four more years of the hated Bush.

This country provides more for the "poor and downtrodden" than any other, it's called opportunity to make something of yourself.

Good grief we even give away healthcare to illegal aliens.

Liberals tend to believe that government is the answer to all problems.

Conservatives tend to believe that for the most part, government is the problem.

Yes, that is simplistic but very true.
Everything else is just arranging the deck chairs on the Titianic.

When people identify themselves as conservative at nearly twice the rate of those that claim to be liberals, you have to wonder how we get the leaders we do.

[Ron Bibler]

Jerry I think we are all on the same page as we only want the best for each other. But to say that those discussions are just a waste of time and effort is not true. Its all good. if you don't start hitting each other or get out a gun


Its clear that you think that if we tax the people and put the Goverment before the people the poeple we well all be better off...

We understand that Goverment has its place... to serve and protect.

But if you can not see that Over taxing will just choak the life out of the country hello! Bush did some very bad things, not taking control of the borders and spending way to much.

But if i under stand you correct you want to keep the borders open and tax and spend more then Bush? I want the Borders shut down and Keep the Taxes the way thay are now. if we sunset the Bush tax cuts my taxes well go up 5K a year. Jerry i dont have and extra $ 5K just laying around!!! work is slow take $ 5K out of my pocket now OUCH! Some one hand me a gun.

Now who is the Bush supporter? I think its you Jerry

Talking is good. Jesus love you Jerry.

Best

Ron

[Michael Larson]

Now who is the Bush supporter? I think its you Jerry

OUCH!

[Ted Menelly]

So if what you say is correct Jerry and Ted. we should get the taxes up to 70 or 80% and start printing money like theres no end and that will fix things? what do they call that? Tax and spend?

Just today thats what Barney Frank stated that he was going to do.

Mr Frank words get the Taxes way up we need the money... what was it Bill Clinton did tax the SSI... Hold on...

So if Obama gets in you will have your wish...

Respect

Ron

Hey Ron

Actually I was just stating what happened back in the 30's and 40's. Not like I am an aficionado or anything but that is basically how we got put back to work and the economy turned around. Unfortunately it had to take place. We were in such bad shape back then that is what was needed to care for the situation.

I am sure you have probably never met anyone like me as far as hating taxes. Unfortunately they are needed. You can not run a country with 300,000,000 people in it with all its infrastructure with out them.

Even though taxes do take care of the country as far as the basics in life.

Mr Obamas plan to give a tax break to 90% of all Americans. It just cannot be done and still run the country. If you don't get a tax break (because 40% of all tax payers pay no federal tax) then you will just receive a check. Can't happen and still run the country.

He wants to increase aid, medical etc, etc for the populous but he has not said how he is going to give everyone money and pay for all the new programs. In the end of his 4 years I can only see us getting deeper in the hole by trillions. I am going to give everyone a tax break or check. I am going to make sure everyone has medical. I am going to pay down the debt. I am going to even out the deficit. I am going to pay back loans. I am going to look out for the little guy. I am going to fix the housing crisis.

Please. How does he think he is going to do this.

He keeps saying there is blame to go around on both sides and then in the same breath keeps saying that it is all the republicans fault. The ignorant voting method in Washington is about the most foolish thing I have ever seen.

Let me see. You want me to vote for your bill that will be a great help to the economy. Well my folks in *blank* state need there special breed of sheep looked after. If you agree to add 5 million for these half dozen sheep to have some new land for those sheep I will vote for your bill.

One bill at a time, period. Sure. No one will vote for the other guys bill at first cause he can't look good to his folks because he got nothing for it. That will get old with the public real quick and then they will have to start taking care of things like they should be.

Obama has the same rhetoric as I have heard from Democrats all my life. It never changes. I am going to be looking out for the little guy. When has that ever happened. The middle class is what needs to be looked out for and you won't just have a trickle down scenario but a trickle up scenario as well. The whole trickle down scenario does not work . It has to go both ways.

You cannot just look out for the big guy or the little guy. It is the middle men that run and fuel this countries economy.

I hate Republicans with there ways. I hate Democrats with there ways.

You know. When things are going well and you are making money the blinders go on and you do not even see Democrat or Republican.

Ron. You said it right. They both actually want what is best for the American people. But to far right or left has never been a good thing. That is why I truly believe that McCain would be best because he is the closest to the center.

No attack folks. The center is what we need. It might be the slower way to go getting things done but if McCain were to republican just like Obama is too Democrat then I would not lean toward him.

[Jerry Peck]

But if you can not see that Over taxing will just choak the life out of the country hello!

Agreed on that. Not agreeing on what "over taxing" is.

Without sufficient and adequate taxation, the rich will only get richer, the poor will only get poorer, and the middle class will disappear, and then the rich will get poorer as there will be no one to buy whatever it is they are selling.

Jesus love you Jerry.

As do his brothers Juan, Jorge, and Julio, along with his sister Juanita. Good friends, I love them all too.

I also save at the same place Jesus saves - B of A.

[Jim Luttrall]

Socialism

NOUN:

1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

Not the form of government I endorse or prefer even if I am on the receiving end of the distribution.
I don't want the government to seize and redistribute wealth based on the collective will of the government.
Paying a proportionate share of the expenses of government is one thing and taking from one to give to another that the government deems more worthy is something totally different.

[Dan Hagman]

You better beware of this Obama Muslim Dude!

A Must Read, smear fact check by NEWS MAX LARGELY TRUE


http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_smears_fact_check/2008/10/20/142379.html?s=al&promo_code=6DC0-1




Claim No. 1: Obama's campaign is funded by the rich, big corporations and foreigners.
Nearly half of the $600 million raised by Obama to date has come from wealthy donors and special interests.
Claim No. 2: Obama has had a close, ongoing relationship with domestic terrorist Bill Ayers.
Obama and Ayers worked together on the board distributing millions of dollars with the aim of radicalizing Chicago schoolchildren.
Claim No. 3: Obama takes advice from executives of troubled mortgage backer Fannie Mae.
Obama and two former heads of the giant mortgage-backing institution — James A. Johnson and Franklin D. Raines — whose corruption played a key role in the current financial crisis.
Claim No. 4: Obama has close ties with the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), a group suspected of massive voter registration fraud.
ACORN spokesman Lewis Goldberg acknowledges in the Oct. 11, 2008, New York Times that Obama trained ACORN leaders. And Obama worked as a lawyer for ACORN.
Claim No. 5: Obama has shown only wavering support for individual gun-ownership rights.
Obama has supported handgun confiscation; the handgun ban in Washington, D.C.; a virtual ban on high-powered rifle ammunition; and many other draconian restrictions on Second Amendment rights.

If elected, wrote the NRA, Obama “would be the most anti-gun president in American history.”
Claim No. 6: A fervent supporter of abortion rights, Obama supports late-term and partial-birth abortions.
Obama has a 100 percent pro-choice voting record according to NARAL Pro-Choice America; his rating from the National Right to Life Committee is zero.
Claim No. 7: Obama showed little interest or support for American combat troops during his overseas visits.
Obama's visit to Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan: “As the Soldiers lined up to shake his hand, he blew them off . . . He again shunned the opportunity to talk to soldiers to thank them for their service . . .
Claim No. 8: Barack Obama is a Muslim.
In fact, Barack Hussein Obama’s Kenyan father was raised Muslim, though he reportedly was not religious.

His mother divorced and remarried another man, a Muslim from Indonesia. As a youngster in Indonesia, Barack Obama attended two schools and was registered at both as a Muslim. He received religious instruction in both schools as a Muslim, including studying the Quran. According to a childhood friend, Obama occasionally attended services at a local mosque.
Claim No. 9: As president, Obama would raise taxes dramatically for most Americans.
Obama has promised to raise various taxes that will fall on most economic classes, including the dividend tax, the FICA tax cap, the capital gains tax, the estate tax, and new taxes on gasoline.

He also called for the Bush tax cuts to expire in 2010, which will automatically raise taxes on most Americans. By letting the Bush cuts expire, Obama would produce a $2 trillion tax increase that some economists predict will rumble through the already weakened economy like an earthquake.
Claim No. 10: Obama was born outside the United States and is ineligible for the presidency.
Former deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania, Philip J. Berg, a Democrat with mixed credibility (he has supported conspiracy theories involving 9/11), has filed a lawsuit to force Obama to produce a certified copy of his birth certificate. According to Berg, Obama’s paternal grandmother has said she was present at his birth in Kenya, after which his mother promptly returned with her baby to the United States.

If that is true, Obama could be constitutionally ineligible to be president.

[Jerry Peck]

Dan,

You need to get a life and get real.

Your post was a clear attempt at fear mongering - you should check your facts before going all out fear mongering like that, only to end with ...

If that is true,

[Dan Hagman]

Jerry , lighten up a little. Not my article, I didn't write it. It was an article by New Max. Just passing on information. It's all part of the debate, you either agree or dissagree and that is your right and opinion.

You give alot of good information on this site and sometimes people don't agree with you. Is this how you respond just because you don't agree is to say "get a life and get real" ?

[Ron Bibler]

Boom! Boom! Baby...

Best

Ron

[Jerry Peck]

Is this how you respond just because

Dan,

No, that is how I respond when someone posts in big bold type, I respond with like big bold type.

Then, to post it as though it were true, then end it with "If ... "??? , well, your entire post seemed real fear mongering (as though that was your intent, *your* writing or not, it was *your* post), and, as such (apparent fear mongering), it deserved to be responded to in like kind.

Like kind ... like it or not. What is good for the goose is good for the gander, you post it, expect a response.

Other than that, nothing wrong with it.

[Jerry McCarthy]

As I’ve said before what this country needs is a benevolent king. Those folks in Wash-DC claiming they represent us are so far out of touch with reality it’s pathetic. If we just closed the Pentagon, get rid of those long standing stupid farm subsidies (especially cotton, cheese and tobacco) and those God awful “earmarks” we could balance the budget. Where’s TR when we desperately need him?

[Victor DaGraca]

There are fewer than two weeks until the election, an election that will
decide the next President of the United States . The person elected will be
the president of all Americans, not just the Democrats or the Republicans.

To show our solidarity as Americans, let's all get together and show each
other our support for the candidate of our choice. It's time that we all
came together, Democrats and Republicans alike.

If you support the policies and character of John McCain, please drive with
your headlights on during the day.

If you support Obama, please drive with your headlights off at night.

Thank you

[Ted Menelly]

There are fewer than two weeks until the election, an election that will
decide the next President of the United States . The person elected will be
the president of all Americans, not just the Democrats or the Republicans.

To show our solidarity as Americans, let's all get together and show each
other our support for the candidate of our choice. It's time that we all
came together, Democrats and Republicans alike.

If you support the policies and character of John McCain, please drive with
your headlights on during the day.

If you support Obama, please drive with your headlights off at night.

Thank you

I wasn't quite sure where you were going with that until the obvious last sentence. I got a good laugh going at that one Thanks

[Jerry Peck]

If you support the policies and character of John McCain, please drive with
your headlights on during the day.

If you support Obama, please drive with your headlights off at night.

I wasn't quite sure where you were going with that until the obvious last sentence. I got a good laugh going at that one Thanks

Ted,

That's because, with so many more supporters for Obama, when they drive at night with their headlights off, they can run over the few remaining McCain supporters.

Great idea, Victor!

[David Banks]

Mcain has lost his moral compass.
McCain the socialst?

YouTube - ZOMFG! John McCain Is A Socialist!

[Kevin Luce]

McCain has lost his moral compass.
McCain the socialst?

YouTube - ZOMFG! John McCain Is A Socialist!

This is one of many reasons why I can't vote for him anymore. It also makes me mad that Palin & the family gets $150K for clothes when others are trying to pay toward their $150K house (Who cares where the clothes end up, the money is still spent).

All I have to say is there has to be some big paybacks to have one of these two to become elected. Why else would this much money be involved.

[Kevin Luce]

There are fewer than two weeks until the election, an election that will
decide the next President of the United States . The person elected will be
the president of all Americans, not just the Democrats or the Republicans.

To show our solidarity as Americans, let's all get together and show each
other our support for the candidate of our choice. It's time that we all
came together, Democrats and Republicans alike.

If you support the policies and character of John McCain, please drive with
your headlights on during the day.

If you support Obama, please drive with your headlights off at night.

Thank you

Wow! That would be strange seeing almost everyone driving with their lights off.

[Rick Hurst]

.........

[Jim Luttrall]

It also makes me mad that Palin & the family gets $150K for clothes when others are trying to pay toward their $150K house (Who cares where the clothes end up, the money is still spent).

And if they did not spend the money, there would be yet another attack criticizing Palin and family for being uncouth and poorly dressed.
What is the difference in spending $150K to make sure the family looks good on TV and Obama campaign spending $800K with Acorn for site selection and lighting to make sure they look good on TV? About $650K.

FEC reports show that from February-May 2008, Obama paid $832,598.29 to CSI. (ACORN)
The payments were for:
$310,441.20 25-FEB-08 STAGING, SOUND, LIGHTING
$160,689.40 27-FEB-08 STAGING, SOUND, LIGHTING
$98,451.20 29-FEB-08 TRAVEL/LODGING
$74,578.01 13-MAR-08 STAGING, SOUND, LIGHTING
$18,417.00 28-MAR-08 POLLING
$18,633.60 29-APR-08 STAGING, SOUND, LIGHTING
$63,000.00 29-APR-08 ADVANCE WORK
$105.84 02-MAY-08 LICENSE FEES
$105.84 02-MAY-08 LICENSE FEES
$75,000.00 17-MAY-08 ADVANCE WORK
$13,176.20 17-MAY-08 PER DIEM

Not saying I would spend that money on clothes, but then I doubt I would be running for political office in my jeans and work shirt either.
But just because the media picks on one canidate more than another does not mean there is no excess on the other side.
I look at the issues, experience, and record to chose my canidates, not the one the media chooses to support.

[Jerry Peck]

Are you saying it is okay for Palin to get paid her per diem rate for traveling ... WHILE LIVING IN *HER OWN* HOME?

Palin received per diem at Wasilla home: Gov. Sarah Palin | adn.com

[Ted Menelly]

.........

Hey Rick

I see lots of lights on there.

[Jerry Peck]

If you support the policies and character of John McCain, please drive with your headlights on during the day.

I see lots of lights on there.

Yeah, typical of those who cannot follow instructions.

"please drive with your headlights on during the day"

Don't even know the difference between day and night, if figures.

Oh, wait, that WAS during the day, you say, that's just their allowable pollution level. Got it.

[Bob Spermo]

I just came home after casting my ballot! The first line is the Presidential vote and it made me sick to my stomach to think that these are the four best candidates we can come up with out of 300,000,000 people. The voting franchise is one of our most repsected freedoms yet the current political process is extremely flawed and needs an hugh overhaul! Obama has spent $600 million and threatens to buy the election. McCain has not made a lot of sense on many issues. I respect McCain's sacrifices (I spent 32 years flying jet fighters so I've been there!) but I just couldn't vote for him. I respect his son for going to Iraq. I don't like Obama because he wants to give my hard earned money away to people that want a handout. So I faced a dilemna in the booth! I decided to waste my vote in protest and vote Libertarian. I did take my votes for Congress more seriously and actually tried to vote on the issues!

[David Banks]

Tax the rich and the country make break even.
The biggest tax cheats: Rich folks - MSN Money

[Rick Hurst]

C'mon Jerry, the picture shows that all the cars have the lights on at night so where is the Obama supporters.

rick

[Kevin Luce]

Wow. I was reading the posts regarding Palin and it has the same tone as when people talk about InterNACHI. People hating Palin sounds the same as people that don't like InterNACHI while the people that like Palin sound like the people that like InterNACHI. (Palin supporters = InterNACHI supporters; always defending their actions.)

[Kevin Luce]

C'mon Jerry, the picture shows that all the cars have the lights on at night so where is the Obama supporters.

rick

Around here they are still trying to get into the doors so they can vote. Indiana has been a Republican state but this year might be different.
The Republicans are doing what ever they can to prevent voting.

They are worried.

[David Banks]

Around here they are still trying to get into the doors so they can vote. Indiana has been a Republican state but this year might be different.
The Republicans are doing what ever they can to prevent voting.

They are worried.

I thought I read the Repub's are trying to stop the vote in working class Gary Indiana over some minor technicality. True?
I have got to think this huge volume of voters mean people want something totally different. We will see.

[Jerry Peck]

Oh, wait, that WAS during the day, you say, that's just their allowable pollution level. Got it.

C'mon Jerry, the picture shows that all the cars have the lights on at night so where is the Obama supporters.

C'mon Rick, that's *not* night ... that's just dark from pollution. That's daytime, and McCain's supporters are driving their gas hogs around trying to hide the polling places from the Obama supporters.

[Ron Bibler]

Whats the bottom line for me.

1 Ride my Harley Need Gas. its a bit of a pig without the lip stick...
2 Drive my S class M.B. Need Gas Its a total pig no lip stick...
3 Play my guitar in the band. very loud! very loud!

FYI Bands name " blind pigs " No lip stick.

4 Repete steps 1,2,3. over and over and over.

5 Try to get some sleep and stay off this board. no luck to date.

6 Repete steps 1,2,3. over and over and over. Im getting good at this.

In order for me to stay on track with step 1,2,3. I need gas for the Bike.

Obama wants me to get a Electric Motor.

That sucks.. not good for a HARLEY. Just will not sound the same.

I vote for more Drilling need the gas.

Repete steps 1,2,3.

Obama = Electric Harley=Sucks

Best

Ron

[Billy Stephens]

makes me mad that Palin & the family gets $150K for clothes when others are trying to pay toward their $150K house

.
Maybe Hillary could loan Her some ($6,000 a copy ) Pants Suits.
.
* Wonder what Todd would look like in Lime Green ?
.

[Ron Bibler]

This is one of many reasons why I can't vote for him anymore. It also makes me mad that Palin & the family gets $150K for clothes when others are trying to pay toward their $150K house (Who cares where the clothes end up, the money is still spent).

All I have to say is there has to be some big paybacks to have one of these two to become elected. Why else would this much money be involved.

Make me mad they should not get any food eather...

Them dang Republicans just get to much. They should go back to eating dog food them dand Republicans...

I think Nancy Pelosi is a Republican just look at that pearl necklaces


Democrat or Republican
That pearl necklaces cost some bucks. that could pay alot of peoples rent.

She is so mean...