G.F.C.I outlet over edge of tub

**Charlie Crouthamel** · 06-04-2014, 04:11 PM

Inspected a condo ( built in 2000) in Ponce Inlet, FL. today.
It has G.F.C.I. outlet over the edge of the master bath tub.
Wrote it up in report as not allowed over the tub.
Any thoughts Jerry?

**Jerry Peck** · 06-04-2014, 04:31 PM

Looks like it may have been a remodeled bathroom with the vanity cabinet and top shortened to fit in the larger tub.

The shortened top caused the receptacle to be over the tub instead of the vanity top. Almost looks to be halfway over the top and halfway over the tub.

If the tub was freestanding (no deck around the tub) being in the wet area is debatable (I.e., we've debated that here several times before).

**Speedy Petey** · 06-07-2014, 05:06 AM

You're wasting water.

- - - Updated - - -

Code says: "Receptacles shall not be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall."

It could be argued that the receptacle is over the lip around the tub, not over the tub itself. I don't buy that, but it could be argued.

**Lon Henderson** · 06-07-2014, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

Code says: "Receptacles shall not be installed within or directly over a bathtub or shower stall."

It could be argued that the receptacle is over the lip around the tub, not over the tub itself. I don't buy that, but it could be argued.

Some tubs have wide decks, so no wonder it can be debated where the tub part of a tub starts.

**Dirk Jeanis** · 06-07-2014, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Crouthamel

Inspected a condo ( built in 2000) in Ponce Inlet, FL. today.
It has G.F.C.I. outlet over the edge of the master bath tub.
Wrote it up in report as not allowed over the tub.
Any thoughts Jerry?

What is the horizontal distance to the sink faucet? I beleive that there is a code for that as well. It may not meet that distance.

The real question is even though it is the proper receptacle and protected, is there a possibility of physical harm due to water and use together? I would say it should be considered an unsafe condition.

If you really want to know jus go down to the municipal inspection department with your picture. THey will tell you one way or another, just bring dimensions with you. Yes they will make a judgement and probably err to safety regardless..

**John Kogel** · 06-07-2014, 06:45 AM

I would write it up. These GFCI's are great but they don't last for ever. We see faulty units every week. So then you are back to a shock hazard with a curling iron in the tub.

In Canada, we measure the distance from the inner surface of the tub itself, not the shelf.

Mr. Petey, he is testing the water flow. I always have pictures of water flowing from the faucets. It shows I tried it.

One more thing. I never put a self-portrait in a report. Not even my shadow.

**Speedy Petey** · 06-07-2014, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis

What is the horizontal distance to the sink faucet? I beleive that there is a code for that as well. It may not meet that distance.

There is no such code I have EVER heard of.

Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis

The real question is even though it is the proper receptacle and protected, is there a possibility of physical harm due to water and use together? I would say it should be considered an unsafe condition.

So if it were 3" to the right (directly over the vanity and completely code complaint) it would be that much safer?
No, the REAL question is is it code complaint. You can throw your H-I "possibility of physical harm" quote at MANY things in a home that are perfectly code complaint. As contractors were cannot worry about every "what-if", and have to deal with design features that may not be in the best interest of everyone involved. What if the receptacle were in a completely isolated place in the bathroom but folks decided it would be a good idea to string X-mas lights around the tub?

**Jerry Peck** · 06-07-2014, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis

What is the horizontal distance to the sink faucet? I beleive that there is a code for that as well. It may not meet that distance.

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey

There is no such code I have EVER heard of.

You've heard of it, you're just thinking of it backwards.

The receptacle is required to be within 3 feet of the edge of the sink.

The question was posed as being minimum 3 feet from the sink - which is the opposite of what is required.

Regardless where the receptacle is located in the bathroom, the receptacle requires GFCI protection ... all the receptacle need be is be "in" the bathroom to require GFCI protection.

**Jim Port** · 06-07-2014, 07:21 AM

I agree that moving it 3" or whatever the the right would make it absolutely no safer. As to writing it up because it could fail is pointless. It is required and is no more prone to failure than any other GFI. Would you write up the kitchen GFI also?

**Charlie Crouthamel** · 06-07-2014, 07:56 AM

And yes, the G.F.I was defective, it would not trip with the test button or meter!!!

**Dirk Jeanis** · 06-07-2014, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Charlie Crouthamel

And yes, the G.F.I was defective, it would not trip with the test button or meter!!!

I wouldnt want it to fail after the test and then the next test be with a 98.6 (warm body) involved.

**Jim Port** · 06-07-2014, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dirk Jeanis

I wouldnt want it to fail after the test and then the next test be with a 98.6 (warm body) involved.

I could fail at any point subsequent to the test. Also the newer devices fail in the off position.

**Jerry Peck** · 06-07-2014, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Jim Port

I could fail at any point subsequent to the test. Also the newer devices fail in the off position.

The electrician at the apartment project I am inspecting had a new one fail like this: GFCI was on, plugged in my 3-light GFCI outlet tester (that's what I carry now, still have my SureTest digital testers for other work), pressed the test button in a downstream receptacle outlet, the GFCI receptacle tripped, button popped out, but the downstream GFCI still had one dim light ... not good.

Electrician measured the voltage at the downstream receptacle outlet and it was about 98 volts as I recall.

Reset the GFCI and tested it again, worked fine.

Told the electrician he had a bad GFCI and to replace it - which he did.

The GFCI has to work properly every time, if it fails even once during a test it is defective, does not matter how many times it works after that failure.

Can a GFCI fail at any time? Yep. Even right after you have tested it.

Your test simply indicates that the GFCI tripped when test AT THE TIME YOU TESTED IT ... your report wording should reflect that. I.e., the GFCI is not "good", the GFCI "tripped at the time the inspector tested it".