new electric diag toy

**Markus Keller** · 04-05-2009, 09:11 AM

Don't know if anyone has seen this yet or has it. Saw it on a light bulb display at Best B yesterday.
Google *Kill A Watt P3*
Looks like an interesting toy to use for prelim prove-outs when I'm suspicious or curious about something.
I'm ordering one today, will let you know how it works out. Amazon has it for about $22.00
Markus

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Ted Menelly · 04-05-2009, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

Don't know if anyone has seen this yet or has it. Saw it on a light bulb display at Best B yesterday.
Google *Kill A Watt P3*
Looks like an interesting toy to use for prelim prove-outs when I'm suspicious or curious about something.
I'm ordering one today, will let you know how it works out. Amazon has it for about $22.00
Markus

Be good for a home energy audit....maybe. Other than that it would be info for a seller and not your buyer because those electric toys being tested are the sellers, not the buyers.

Just a thought.

**Jim Robinson** · 04-05-2009, 07:48 PM

I've got a Kill A Watt that I've used a few times for my own information. What is a pre-lim proveout?

A.D. Miller · 04-06-2009, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

Don't know if anyone has seen this yet or has it. Saw it on a light bulb display at Best B yesterday.
Google *Kill A Watt P3*
Looks like an interesting toy to use for prelim prove-outs when I'm suspicious or curious about something.
I'm ordering one today, will let you know how it works out. Amazon has it for about $22.00
Markus

Markus: I looked at their ad where they suggest that you connect one of these devices to each appliance in the house. I did a rough assessment of the number of "energy hogs" in my house and came up with about 30. At $22 each we are looking right down the barrel of $660. What a great deal for someone . . . just not me.

As for their use in energy audits, maybe. However, in my market the energy audit inspection prices have reached rock bottom. They simply do not pay.

**Markus Keller** · 04-06-2009, 06:50 AM

Aaron, I noticed the cost/ratio part of it when I was looking at the display at Best B. The display hawked knowing and reducing your energy consumption. Seemed really kind of dumb. Since what are you going to do, unplug the fridge or lamp because the kill a watt says its using more juice than the appliance owners manual said it would? I don't see buying a whole bunch and plugging them in. It's like a lot of that stuff that is supposed to save time and money but really just costs.
Preliminary proveout- Often times when I do an HI or building assessment things make me suspicious. Which of course makes me odd since we all know all builders and developers do everything right.

Some guys (checkbox) might just report, "X is or might be wrong" and leave it at that. Then what happens when the report gets read over? Seller/developer says, "Oh, no that HI is wrong, he is full of crap, doesn't know anything, etc."
I really hate those BS back and forth, he says they say phone calls. Total waste of time.
What I do is pull out one of my handy little diagnostic toys and do a preliminary prove-out. Instead of saying, Room X seems cold, heat flow to room X seems slow/low. I can say, Room X did not come up to temp, only 50 CFM coming from register, 200 CFM typical for room size.
Or, I can pull out my SeeSnake and look into places to get better intell, etc.
Now my report has much more solid useful info for the client and cuts down on the BS from the Seller.
Beyond the prelim. prove-out would be an exhaustive/invasive service at additional cost, usually after closing (in conjunction with others)
As many of us know, there usually isn't one solution to a house problem. There are usually many options based on cost, long-term use, relation to other components, etc. Clients sometimes need independent guidance on these matters. A contractor is of course looking out for his own best interest and bidding the job in a way that is good for him. That option may not be the best for that client and their home.
Make sense, or am I about to get hammered?
As far as this toy, not sure yet. Maybe check voltage/amp draw on whiny motors, etc.

John Steinke · 04-06-2009, 07:43 AM

Opinions, they say, are like fingers.... most everyone has handfulls of them!

The "Kill-A-Watt" is a useful tool for identifying just where your electricity dollars are going. With that information, you can make informed choices.

Here are two examples, where I used the device to good effect.

A local mini-mart had me measure all their appliances. With this data, we were able to determine how much it cost for each sign, each cooler, each fountain to operate each month. Based on this information, the owner replaced some coolers, and scaled back on some products- while increasing others.

In my own home, I have three 'major' user of electricity. My fridge, my computer, and my fish pond. Now I KNOW what share of my bill is from each; I also can see the value in turning the computer 'off,' and switching to fish that don't require heated water. You can be sure that a new fridge is also on the schedule!

Now, this is not a tool that suits a casual inspection. You need to leave the appliance plugged into it for some time, in order to get a fair sample. The longer your sample period, the more accurate your estimate will be. It is especially useful with appliances - like fridges and air conditioners - that are not running all the time.

**Markus Keller** · 04-06-2009, 07:46 AM

Nice examples John, very helpful.

A.D. Miller · 04-06-2009, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by John Steinke

Opinions, they say, are like fingers.... most everyone has handfulls of them!

The "Kill-A-Watt" is a useful tool for identifying just where your electricity dollars are going. With that information, you can make informed choices.

Here are two examples, where I used the device to good effect.

A local mini-mart had me measure all their appliances. With this data, we were able to determine how much it cost for each sign, each cooler, each fountain to operate each month. Based on this information, the owner replaced some coolers, and scaled back on some products- while increasing others.

In my own home, I have three 'major' user of electricity. My fridge, my computer, and my fish pond. Now I KNOW what share of my bill is from each; I also can see the value in turning the computer 'off,' and switching to fish that don't require heated water. You can be sure that a new fridge is also on the schedule!

Now, this is not a tool that suits a casual inspection. You need to leave the appliance plugged into it for some time, in order to get a fair sample. The longer your sample period, the more accurate your estimate will be. It is especially useful with appliances - like fridges and air conditioners - that are not running all the time.

John: So then, in that respect the Kill-a-Watt is like an affordable IR camera. It tells you what you already know (or at least what you could fairly easily surmise) and alludes to what you should do about what you already know, which is something you also already aware of.

Just how much money can a man afford to save anyway?

**Jerry Peck** · 04-06-2009, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Markus Keller

Nice examples John, very helpful.

Agreed, very informative John.

A.D. Miller · 04-06-2009, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry Peck

Agreed, very informative John.

JP: Now I am certain that you, of all people, replete as your are with 30+-foot long roadblocker, gas-efficient sports cars, and who knows what other toys, are chomping at the bit to spend that hole-in-the-pocket-burning $22 to find out that you don't give much of a damn about energy efficiency. At least not that one could gather by appearances, that is.

Just in case I err in my reasoning here, by all means purchase two. Send me one.

**Jerry Peck** · 04-06-2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by A.D. Miller

JP: Now I am certain that you, of all people, replete as your are with 30+-foot long roadblocker, gas-efficient sports cars, and who knows what other toys, are chomping at the bit to spend that hole-in-the-pocket-burning $22 to find out that you don't give much of a damn about energy efficiency. At least not that one could gather by appearances, that is.

Just in case I err in my reasoning here, by all means purchase two. Send me one.

Aaron,

Energy efficiency is not the discussion John posted in his examples, it was about the store owner's knowledge on how to best apply what is being used to generate revenue, income.

The intent was not to save energy but to re-apportion that energy to make more money.

Why run a cooler for $8 a day which produces $10 a day in sales when he can run two different coolers for $4 a day each and produce $10 a day each in sales? You are still spending $8 a day to run the coolers, but your revenues have now doubled.

I'll have you know that my V-12 XJS gets slightly more mpg in town than the V-10 motor home does on the road ... okay, only "slightly more".

But on the road, at half speed (80 mph), the XJS mpg doubles.

So, to be "fuel efficient"

I would need to drive the XJS at 80 mph every where I go ... not sure the coppers would like that.

A.D. Miller · 04-06-2009, 10:03 AM

The intent was not to save energy but to re-apportion that energy to make more money.

JP: Now, there is a marketing gem if I ever saw one.

I'll have you know that my V-12 XJS gets slightly more mpg in town than the V-10 motor home does on the road ... okay, only "slightly more".

But on the road, at half speed (80 mph), the XJS mpg doubles.

JP: Now the truth comes out.

Claire R · 04-13-2009, 06:29 AM

With energy audits, a major use of the Kill-a-Watt is to check for high energy usage refrigerators. It is common to find older fridges which may be using 1000KWH per month - and easy fix, just replace the unit.