Notice of Contravention - Private Career Colleges Act - Ontario

**Raymond Wand** · 09-30-2014, 03:33 AM

Particulars of Notice of Contravention
S. 49(1) Private Career Colleges Act, 2005 (“Act”)

http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/pepg/audien...t4U2013NOC.pdf

Kiernan Streold · 10-13-2014, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

Particulars of Notice of Contravention
S. 49(1) Private Career Colleges Act, 2005 (“Act”)

http://www.tcu.gov.on.ca/pepg/audien...t4U2013NOC.pdf

I notice from the link you posted that Inspect4U is now compliant as of 31st January, 2012. Does this mean that anyone who paid for the course in Ontario prior to that date are entitled to a full refund of their fees. It seems that way under your provinces Private Career Colleges Act of 2005.

Are Inspect4U telling their students this?

**Raymond Wand** · 10-13-2014, 01:38 PM

Kiernan

I do not have an answer for you.

**Claude Lawrenson** · 10-13-2014, 05:01 PM

There's a search function on the website, so you should be able to see what Private Career Colleges are "registered" for home inspection, at least in Ontario. Most college home inspection programs are recognized by the Ministry of Training Colleges, however it appears that one "training provider" has the lion share of the market.

**Raymond Wand** · 10-14-2014, 03:45 AM

Private Career Colleges (PCC): Notices, Orders and Financial Penalties

See Inspect4U.

Another affiliate of InterNachi.

Kiernan Streold · 10-14-2014, 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson

There's a search function on the website, so you should be able to see what Private Career Colleges are "registered" for home inspection, at least in Ontario. Most college home inspection programs are recognized by the Ministry of Training Colleges, however it appears that one "training provider" has the lion share of the market.

Claude, You seem to understand this better than most from what I see of your posts, so maybe you can help me navigate these questions.

I searched on the Government registry site for Inspect4U and couldn't find them.

Does this mean they are not registered?
If this is the case how can they at the same time be "compliant", as per the link to the PDF that Ray Wand posted, and according to the Ontario Ministry of Training Colleges not registered, yet at the same time, according to the Inspect4U website, "recognised" by the Government?
Is this another case of Ontario regulation gone mad, or over enthusiastic marketing by Inspect4U?

On another note, I went to Toronto last year to a conference of engineering companies where all attendees were presented with a letter from your premier Ms. Wynne. She stated that Ontario had minimal regulation. It seems from what I'm reading here, on other sites and in the Ontario Government and Agency websites, nothing could be farther from the truth. It seems it won't be long before you have to have a license to use a bathroom there.

**Claude Lawrenson** · 10-14-2014, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Kiernan Streold

Claude, You seem to understand this better than most from what I see of your posts, so maybe you can help me navigate these questions.

I searched on the Government registry site for Inspect4U and couldn't find them.

Does this mean they are not registered?
If this is the case how can they at the same time be "compliant", as per the link to the PDF that Ray Wand posted, and according to the Ontario Ministry of Training Colleges not registered, yet at the same time, according to the Inspect4U website, "recognised" by the Government?
Is this another case of Ontario regulation gone mad, or over enthusiastic marketing by Inspect4U?

On another note, I went to Toronto last year to a conference of engineering companies where all attendees were presented with a letter from your premier Ms. Wynne. She stated that Ontario had minimal regulation. It seems from what I'm reading here, on other sites and in the Ontario Government and Agency websites, nothing could be farther from the truth. It seems it won't be long before you have to have a license to use a bathroom there.

My search did not yield results for their "home inspection" training in Ontario.

It would be my general belief that if they cannot be found in a current web search they would not be deemed compliant. However, they may be compliant if they stopped advertising and offering "said courses/training" in Ontario.

On another note that would not hinder them from offering courses in other jurisdictions outside of Ontario. As example in Alberta, or perhaps the Atlantic region.

Regarding potential licensing - I sat as an education rep for the Ontario Home Inspector licensing panel conducted by a consultant for the Ministry of Consumer Services. My take - licensing could likely happen within the next few years. But there are several underlying issues that need attention before it's a done deal. Of course it depends on the priority and needs of the government in power at the time. These include and are not limited to - adoption of a CSA Home Inspection Standard, the setup of a very costly "regulatory" oversight body to administer the licensing (hence Raymond's comment regarding the future of associations), and further details on the actual detailed qualification requirements to attain a license.

Currently there's no requirements restricting a person from practicing in the province of Ontario.

**Raymond Wand** · 10-14-2014, 04:52 PM

Kiernan wrote in part:

On another note, I went to Toronto last year to a conference of engineering companies where all attendees were presented with a letter from your premier Ms. Wynne. She stated that Ontario had minimal regulation. It seems from what I'm reading here, on other sites and in the Ontario Government and Agency websites, nothing could be farther from the truth. It seems it won't be long before you have to have a license to use a bathroom there.

The Liberal government in Ontario has a history of meddling via regulations in the affairs of industry, professions and taxing since they are free spenders and have squandered billions. So much so businesses are finding it very expensive to operate in Ontario and this is one reason Ontario is losing jobs to other jurisdictions who have lower coporate tax rates, regulations, and less costly labour force.

The government has been unable to prove there is a real need to licence inspectors and when pushed for facts the govenment comes up short. The facts that are available tell a different story, there are actually less complaints about home inspections then there are for paving companies, roofers, carpet sales, window sales, renovators/contractors, all of which remain unlicenced.

The reason all the trees in Sasketchewan lean east is because Ontario sucks!

**Raymond Wand** · 10-14-2014, 07:50 PM

BBB Canadian Stats on consumer complaints for a variety of industries

View Consumer Complaint Reports and Statistics

2013 Complaint and Inquiry Statistics

- - - Updated - - -

BBB Canadian Stats on consumer complaints for a variety of industries

http://www.bbb.org/council/consumer-education/complaints/view-national-complaint-statistics/

http://www.bbb.org/council/consumer-education/complaints/view-national-complaint-statistics/2013-complaint-and-inquiry-statistics/

Likewise Canadian case law shows similar info that complaints are relatively low given the number of inspections carried out yearly.

**Len Inkster** · 10-21-2014, 07:34 AM

Originally Posted by Claude Lawrenson

My search did not yield results for their "home inspection" training in Ontario.

It would be my general belief that if they cannot be found in a current web search they would not be deemed compliant. However, they may be compliant if they stopped advertising and offering "said courses/training" in Ontario.

Hi Claude, great info but...

http://www.inspect4u.ca/ontario.htm

The fine is $1,000 per week. Their courses are "$999 GST Included" (Funny I thought we had HST here in Ontario)

So......Two students and they are $998 bucks up (less GST

) Anything over that is gravy!

**Len Inkster** · 10-21-2014, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Raymond Wand

BBB Canadian Stats on consumer complaints for a variety of industries

View Consumer Complaint Reports and Statistics

2013 Complaint and Inquiry Statistics

- - - Updated - - -

BBB Canadian Stats on consumer complaints for a variety of industries

View Consumer Complaint Reports and Statistics

2013 Complaint and Inquiry Statistics

Likewise Canadian case law shows similar info that complaints are relatively low given the number of inspections carried out yearly.

Ray thanks. Makes interesting reading.

I especially like the states on Home Inspections vs other "Regulated" professions.

Home Inspectors: 14 complaints, 10 settled, 4 not.
Home Improvements 182 complaints, 101 settled, 69 not, 12 not pursued.
Electricians: 63 complaints, 45 settled, 17 not, 1 not pursued.
HVAC Installers: 228 complaints, 168 settled, 58 not, 2 not pursued.
Real Estate: 38 Complaints, 26 settled, 12 not.

Unfortunately, these are only a limited set of statistics. They do not take into account how many complaints were made to the regulatory boards of each profession, or complainants made to the Consumer services protection branches of each province/territory.

On the face of it, it would suggest that regulation doesn't stop the complaining, but it does seem to have an impact on complaints not settled or not pursued, for whatever reasons.

When you look deeper however, and compare the number of individuals in each of the professions, and the number of transactions each of the professions carry out, against the number of complaints, I wonder would the Home Inspection profession fare as well?

For example, there are an estimated 1,900 Inspectors in Ontario. There are over 45,000 Realtors.

When you put that against (admittedly Canadian statistics) it would appear that the BBB get approx. 1 complaint for every 2 Realtors, but they get approx. 17 for every Home Inspector.

That said, with over 8,000 Electricians across Canada AND Electrician being a regulated trade, they get approx. 14 complaints for every Electrician.

We must also remember, that even these statistics could be skewed, because a complaint to the BBB could be as serious as professional mis-conduct and failure to work to a standard, or as frivolous as "they smelled" or "they charged me more than I thought they should", complaint which appear on the BBB site.

What this all proves, is that depending who you are, and what your aim is, you can meld the statistics to say what you want. What it also proves is: Regulated or not all services get complaints.

The difference is, with regulation, there are downsides.

The costs of getting to a position where you can work go up. The risk of losing that livelihood if your license expires/get's revoked go up. The cost of maintaining the license is not cheap.

There maybe upsides too:

Everyone is (supposed to be) judged to the same standard. There is a central standard and complaints are measured to that standard, by a central panel. Consumers are (supposed to be) less confused about what they should expect.

The question is, do the upsides outweigh the downsides?