RAISED TRIM ON STAIR TREAD

**CHARLIE VAN FLEET** · 02-05-2011, 08:04 AM

HEY ALL

will have a picture later, but is it alright to have a raised front trim on stair treads. doing inspection today,and even when i walked down the stairs my foot didn't feel safe. do all treads have to be flat?? vague question,but photo later will give a better look.

thanks

cvf

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**Michael Thomas** · 02-05-2011, 08:23 AM

If these are the metal "nosing protectors", I note that they are a particular hazard if:

1) They are not firmly secured

- and/or -

2) sharp edges are exposed

and that I know this because "One sent my bother to the ER with a cut that required 24 stitches too close".

Beyond that, AFAIK there in no provision of the IRC that specifically prohibits them unless their design violates a requirement in R311.5.3.3.

IMO, this is a oversight in the code.

**Michael Thomas** · 02-05-2011, 08:36 AM

When I reached this a while back I found that there are a number of manufacturers for nosings for vinyl and rubber composition floorings used on stairs, and none of the standards they referenced related to this issue. (The closest seems to be ASTM D 2047, of which I do not have a copy).

For example see the bottom of this page:

Johnsonite > Wall Base, Finishes & Accessories > Stairwell Management > Nosings

**CHARLIE VAN FLEET** · 02-05-2011, 06:40 PM

HERES THOSE PICTURES

**Markus Keller** · 02-06-2011, 08:14 AM

It looks like they really cheap'ed out and make the main portion of the treads and risers out of laminate flooring planks. The applied the nose to finish the corner. Total scum work that looks good for a while and then falls apart.
This looks like a re-thread/coverup. Are you sure they didn't just cover the original stairs?
I see exposed nails on the edge but none on the flooring. I'm guessing they glued it down. The laminate will probably start to buckle soon, especially if kids start going up and down in wet boots.
The nosing also doesn't look like hardwood, so it will start to chip away and buckle up.
I would write it as a trip/fall hazard and a project that needs to be re-installed properly as soon as feasible.
Typical sort of DIY show garbage that looks good, is cheap, doesn't last and puts people at risk.

**H.G. Watson, Sr.** · 02-06-2011, 08:30 AM

will have a picture later, but is it alright to have a raised front trim on stair treads. doing inspection today,and even when i walked down the stairs my foot didn't feel safe. do all treads have to be flat?? vague question,but photo later will give a better look.

First we are not looking at actual treads or risers, but at capped treads and risers with finished flooring materials (and the required structural solid risers IMO should not be capped with same).

Next we do not know the depth of the walking surface, but it appears far less than 11" so a required nosing projection would be required.

However regarding your "flat" question.

R311.5.5 Stairway walking surface - is limited to a 2-percent slope variance (that's 1 unit vertical in 48 units horizontal).

Use of such transition "mouldings" with applied engineered or laminate flooring on stair treads (and risers) usually blows this limitation, as it does the uniformity limitations, and the structural (solid riser) support requirements of the structural tread and its projections (nosing) limitations (minimum, maximum).

When seeking clarification or definitions not covered in the IRC, one's first source of reference is the IBC (this is discussed in the IRC). 1009.5.1

Finish floor surfaces shall be securely attached. Implied and understood that same should be sufficiently supported (structurally). Use of the flooring upon the risers and thus using same to support the moulding projection and/or the flooring on the tread gives us an unsupported moulding projection beyond the stair structural tread itself. The floor covering materials upon the riser cannot meet the "support" req;uirements at compression or punch strength 90 degrees off axis for engineered/laminated materials. Click in or glued to itself (FLOATING flooring/glued down, or nailed' flooring herein pictured) transition moulding itself is not securely attached OR supported finished flooring materials.

If applicable, the Life Safety Code (NPFA 101) contains language expressly prohibiting.

Primary / accessible means of egress stairways - presumably the primary path from one or the other levels served by this stairway. 1007.3

Dimensional uniformity 1009.3.2

Generally the bottom landing surface/first riser to top landing fails overall stairway riser uniformity (0.375", 3/8", 9.5 mm) also.

First thoughts, without having any measurements.

If applicable Life Safety Code NFPA 101 has prohibitory language.

Slope variance in excess overall tread walking surface and should the depth be less than 11", lack of minimum nosing projections, stairway uniformity variations, and finished flooring not sufficiently structurally supported all walking surfaces should be enough to bounce this IMHO unsafe, amaturish stairway modification.

Presumed residential, and storey/floor levels served by only one stair to primary exit path, and serving habital or occupied spaces.

Suspect DIYer enclosed previously open/prefab stair (possibly to previously unfinished basement, unfinished attic, or similar area) or post inspection). Modification unpermitted or inspected, I further suspect.

**H.G. Watson, Sr.** · 02-06-2011, 08:40 AM

P.S. the 1/4-round at the bottom landing applied to the "riser" plane also encroaches on the stairway and is a hazard in the direction of travel.This is obviously an overlay to a pre-existing stair, its originally "captured" treads, and landings.

The flooring below appears to be a "floating" installation, and they appear to have used manufactured not milled "threshold transition strips" or similar to the leading edge of the treads. These generally require support at/within the leading edge and securement to structural surface - and a gap or void between this zone and the engineered flooring, laminate flooring, or strip/plank flooring materials in a specified gap under a thin transition edge.

This of course leaves the walking surface finish flooring materials on the now sloped tread plane UNSUPPORTED in a most critical walkway surface area. Using the same materials applied upon the riser and to support the leading edge of the transition strip is also structurally inappropriate for the surface walkway floor finish material.

Nolan Kienitz · 02-07-2011, 07:02 AM

2006 IRC Visual for Stairways

**Mike Schulz** · 02-09-2011, 02:35 PM

Besides the stairs that is one butt ugly shoe...........just saying

**Jerry Peck** · 02-11-2011, 08:32 PM

Marie,

Your claim to fame is that letter to a well known person who did not bother to respond, and somehow that is to your benefit?

I can't figure that one out.

Maybe I will send a letter to the Prez and the Pope, and when they don't respond I will able to claim that they did not respond and therefore I am good????