"The seller says..."

**Michael Thomas** · 03-13-2011, 03:54 PM

I think this needs its own topic.

To lead off:

"Hi -- sellers claim that rust/corrosion on attic furnace is due to condensation from the a/c forming when attic temp is very hot -- 90 or above. Seems to make some sense that a/c with cooler air coming in contact with very hot air would cause condensation and dripping.

Your thoughts?

Also, furnace is electric, thus explaining their huge electric bills. Their heating bill combined (gas and electric) from last year is higher than my gas bill for heating a much bigger house. Any ideas?

Sellers agreed to have sewer rodded prior to closing, but not videoed. Have had no problems in the years they have been in the house; sidewalk was in that condition when they moved in."

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**Nick Ostrowski** · 03-13-2011, 04:17 PM

That looks like a 90+ gas furnace to me with the PVC pipes. And the staining looks more consistent with a condensate leak from the PVC furnace flue pipe. Whose words are these regarding the conditions? The seller's agent?

That appears to be a black iron gas line passing through the left-hand side of the furnace cabinet.

**BARRY ADAIR** · 03-13-2011, 04:24 PM

based on pix and limited info

M1411.5 Insulation of refrigerant piping. Piping and fittings
for refrigerant vapor (suction) lines shall be insulated with
insulation having a thermal resistivity of at least R-4 and having
external surface permeance not exceeding 0.05 perm [2.87
ng/(s . m2 . Pa)] when tested in accordance with ASTM E 96.

uninsulated refer lines will reduce AC efficiency and waste energy

high utility bills would require an audit to assure the cause

i do not hypothesize
as to what caused the sidewalk deflection is anybody's guess, just note trip hazard potential and move on

rodding drain will not repair the sidewalk and how certain can you be that a drainline leak caused the settlement

lack of proper soil compaction or roots is the most common cause of deflected flatwork around here, beside our expansive clay

**Jerry Peck** · 03-13-2011, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

Sellers agreed to have sewer rodded prior to closing,

Wonder if they will hit that sign post ... it is right at that dip.

James Duffin · 03-13-2011, 04:57 PM

In the picture it looks like the condensate line is running up the wall so it will not drain properly.

Also if the furnace is a electric furnace and not a heat pump the buyer should be advised to check the power bills so they will not get sticker shock.

**Eric Barker** · 03-13-2011, 05:33 PM

The seller is right - it's from condensation. The problem is that there's a drainage concern.

**Michael Thomas** · 03-13-2011, 06:12 PM

1) Quote is from an e-mail from the buyer.

2) It's a gas, not electric, furnace - sellers appear to be convinced it's electric, though.

I did a double take when I first read the e-mail though - could I have missed a 2nd furnace somewhere?

But a quick look at the pic of the electrical panel sans deadfront confirmed that there was no 240V breaker unaccounted for... not that I would have missed the power for a "mystery" furnace when I opened the panel in the first place.

3) I recommend running a camera down ALL sewer lines as a building that age unless the seller can demonstrate same in last year - if the sellers are willing to have someone out to rod it, the additional cost to camera the line should be minimal.

The sidewalk dip is just one more reason to camera the line.

**Benjamin Thompson** · 03-13-2011, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

Sellers agreed to have sewer rodded prior to closing, but not videoed. Have had no problems in the years they have been in the house; sidewalk was in that condition when they moved in."

They won't let the buyers have the sewer line scoped or the buyers are expecting the seller to pay for that inspection??
I agree with Nick, looks like a gas furnace.

**Michael Thomas** · 03-14-2011, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by Benjamin Thompson

They won't let the buyers have the sewer line scoped or the buyers are expecting the seller to pay for that inspection??
I agree with Nick, looks like a gas furnace.

The buyer was going to pay to have it scoped.

Of *course* it's a GFAF... that's what makes the seller's insistence that it's electric post-worthy.

**Markus Keller** · 03-14-2011, 06:18 AM

The leaking is from the A-coil pan. If it's an older metal pan it's rusted out. If its a newer plastic pan, its tilted bad, cracked or set too low for the furnace temperature and become warped.
I can easily see that drain assembly slowing down drainage enough to let water overflow the pan.
As far as the sidewalk, could be sewer, could be pour install. If there aren't any signs of dipping in the yard or parkway, I'd say bad install, rain washout, etc.

**Michael Thomas** · 03-18-2011, 08:43 PM

Buyer just e-mailed -she paid for a plumber to scope the sewer - they could not get the camera through the blockage.

I did a different house Tuesday were the seller said there had never been a problem with the sewer - I eventually found the clean out .. along with a tag wired to it where the plumber had written a dated notations of what he had discovered the three times he had rodded the sewer...

"Disclosure? I don't need no to show you no stinking disclosure!"

**Erby Crofutt** · 03-19-2011, 05:32 AM

I'd bet that given the brown color of the rusted area, it's combustion condensate leaking out of the exhaust vent pipe.

**CHARLIE VAN FLEET** · 03-19-2011, 03:31 PM

see this a lot around here---this is what i think

cvf

**Benjamin Thompson** · 03-19-2011, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Michael Thomas

Buyer just e-mailed -she paid for a plumber to scope the sewer - they could not get the camera through the blockage.

I did a different house Tuesday were the seller said there had never been a problem with the sewer - I eventually found the clean out .. along with a tag wired to it where the plumber had written a dated notations of what he had discovered the three times he had rodded the sewer...

"Disclosure? I don't need no to show you no stinking disclosure!"

Essentially, they're all liars. "That's not a problem" should send up an immediate red flag!

**Garry Sorrells** · 03-21-2011, 07:37 AM

If the seller does not allow the line to be scoped then the seller does not have anything to disclose.

Seller could have had the walk cement jacked back into place and you may not have had any clue as to a problem. And the seller would still not have anything to disclose on the sewer line.