220v Line laying on gas line

[Rick Bunzel]

I found this in an attic. I am trying to find a reference that says its not permitted. I recall reading someplace that there needs to be at least a 25mm space between an electric line and a gas line. Anyone have a reference I can use?

Thanks

//Rick

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[Jerry Peck]

The best reference would be that it is not properly secured and supported as required ... but the insulation on the conductors within the outer sheath should provide protection from any electrical problem from the two being in contact with each other.

[Darrel Hood]

OK Jerry, it is time for me to learn something new. That does not appear to be a walkway and the line appears to be supported by the pipe and the joists. What needs to be changed? Thanks in advance.

[Jerry Peck]

That does not appear to be a walkway and the line appears to be supported by the pipe and the joists. What needs to be changed? Thanks in advance.

Darrel,

No problem, it is something that many electricians miss - just one word is what the miss.

- 334.30 Securing and Supporting.
- - Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be supported and secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable, at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (4½ ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.
- - (A) Horizontal Runs Through Holes and Notches. In other than vertical runs, cables installed in accordance with 300.4 shall be considered to be supported and secured where such support does not exceed 1.4-m (4½-ft) intervals and the nonmetallic-sheathed cable is securely fastened in place by an approved means within 300 mm (12 in.) of each box, cabinet, conduit body, or other nonmetallic-sheathed cable termination.
- - - FPN: See 314.17(C) for support where nonmetallic boxes are used.
- - (B) Unsupported Cables. Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be permitted to be unsupported where the cable:
- - - (1) Is fished between access points through concealed spaces in finished buildings or structures and supporting is impracticable.
- - - (2) Is not more than 1.4 m (4½ ft) from the last point of cable support to the point of connection to a luminaire or other piece of electrical equipment and the cable and point of connection are within an accessible ceiling.

Notice that (A) is exclusive to "Horizontal Runs Through Holes and Notches", such as through holes and notched in studs, ceiling or floor joists, and the like, but not as shown in the photo where the cables are just 'laying on the top' of the truss bottom plates/ceiling joists and the like.

When the NM cable is installed through bored holes or notches in studs (for example), the NM cables are considered to "be considered to be supported and secured", even though the NM cables are not actually "secured" (the NM cables are 'retained' by the bored holes and notches and are thus not allowed to just be moved around from things bumping into them as the NM cables in the photo could be).

Advance notice: there will likely be some electricians, and possibly even some others, who will react in shock to the above.

[Darrel Hood]

Thanks, Jerry. So, the point is that it should be stapled or secured in some appropriate way?

[Jerry Peck]

Thanks, Jerry. So, the point is that it should be stapled or secured in some appropriate way?

Correct.