Sub Panel to Sub Panel

**John Ellis** · 09-30-2012, 07:35 AM

I recently inspected a home with some major wiring issues. The house was "unusual" to the say the least with it's back to back kitchens located in the same room. Two kitchens and no GFCI's anywhere. There were also two additional rooms built onto the house that gave me a fit trying to figure where the power came in from. I found it when I noticed the exterior light and traced it to a Romex "plug in" adapter located in the bathroom between the washer hook ups and the bathroom sink. This was all fed from a 15A breaker.

The main panel had issues but what really set off the red flags was in the "laundry room". The 200A main panel fed 100A service to a sub panel via aluminum wiring. The sub panel fed another sub panel (within 3' away) via copper wiring and they were double tapped. Add in the water heater and it's even better. The Cop/ALum connection was getting loose from the heat and starting to melt the plastic surrounding it and apparently they had been trying to tighten it to solve the problem.

Obviously I recommend that a "Qualified and licesned professional" aka electrician be called to go over the entire electrical service in the residence.

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**John Ellis** · 09-30-2012, 05:53 PM

I agree. Also, since a new panel needs to be installed then an upgrade would perhaps negate the need/use of the second sub panel all together.

**Billy Stephens** · 09-30-2012, 07:27 PM

Yeah Another Nice Zinsco aka Burnt Panel.

**Gunnar Alquist** · 09-30-2012, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Billy Stephens

Yeah Another Nice Zinsco aka Burnt Panel.

That doesn't appear to be a Zinsco or Sylvania to me. Looks more like a Bryant, but I could be wrong.

**Lon Henderson** · 10-01-2012, 06:19 AM

Sheesh, one might thing that you guys don't like some schmuck trying to save a buck by doing it himself.
And multiple issues with the water heater.............

but the good news is that the buyer doesn't think he wasted his money on an inspection.

**Chris Weekly** · 10-01-2012, 01:58 PM

Good catch on all the electrical diy stuff, John.
Homeowners might have an idea in mind for what their needs may be, but that does not translate to safe practice when they they do the work themselves, and tap into a system they really dont know enough about - except to cause havoc. 'Do it yourself' is a temptation to saving money, yeah, but look at the possible consequences.

Also appears to be many doubled neutral wires at the buss bar in that panel. That appears to be from original panel installation - a pro?

**Billy Stephens** · 10-01-2012, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist

That doesn't appear to be a Zinsco or Sylvania to me. Looks more like a Bryant, but I could be wrong.

.
Check.

* different name same results

**Dave Ruth** · 10-01-2012, 04:07 PM

well you're right but may not be completely accurate in saying that subpanel feeds another subpanel, double tap is parellaling (can't spell) feed from main panel to both subpanels may be more accurate description? And even if lugs were rated for 2 wires (some are) they wouldn't allow for copper and aluminum together.

I'm not sure what's wrong with water heater? Probably my eyesight is making me overlook something obvious.

**John Ellis** · 10-01-2012, 09:05 PM

Thanks Chris. The first panel is a Gould. It would be more accurate to say that these panels are in parallel instead of saying that one feeds another. As far as the water heater goes it is within 3' of the panel and posses a shock hazard if someone were to get zapped and touch the w/h (shower zapper). Also, the TPR needs an extension and the Romex is not properly supported (may not be visible).

John Ritter · 10-02-2012, 12:47 PM

Is there a tprv drain pipe there ? also nice platform under that heater

**Dave Ruth** · 10-02-2012, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by John Ellis

Thanks Chris. The first panel is a Gould. It would be more accurate to say that these panels are in parallel instead of saying that one feeds another. As far as the water heater goes it is within 3' of the panel and posses a shock hazard if someone were to get zapped and touch the w/h (shower zapper). Also, the TPR needs an extension and the Romex is not properly supported (may not be visible).

yes, water heater is allowed within 3' of panel as long as doesn't infringe on working space 3' deep (2011 NEC table 110.26(A)(1)), 30" wide (110.26(A)(2))