vinyl siding with no barrier

**ren ramsey** · 02-11-2013, 11:05 AM

I have started seeing more of this lately, Vinyl siding installed without a barrier behind it. It's just installed right on the osb sheeting. NC codes don't' allow it and require a barrier acccodiinf to the State code offical, but our NC Home Inspection Board dos not allow us to cite code. Called Cerainteed and they say it is recommended but not required as far as they are concerned. Local code guy says it's ok on just the OSB. Obviously I got to inform the client but with some saying yes and some saying no what's the proper wording when you got answers all over the board?

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**Scott Patterson** · 02-11-2013, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by ren ramsey

I have started seeing more of this lately, Vinyl siding installed without a barrier behind it. It's just installed right on the osb sheeting. NC codes don't' allow it and require a barrier acccodiinf to the State code offical, but our NC Home Inspection Board dos not allow us to cite code. Called Cerainteed and they say it is recommended but not required as far as they are concerned. Local code guy says it's ok on just the OSB. Obviously I got to inform the client but with some saying yes and some saying no what's the proper wording when you got answers all over the board?

Ren, I would report the lack of it like this. NC has such a screwy reporting requirement that ya just need to work around it the best you can.

The vinyl siding on the home does not have a weather resistant barrier as a second layer of protection. The manufacturer of the siding recommends it as well as good building practices but unfortunately the State of NC Home Inspector License Board does not allow me to tell you that this is or is not against the building code. If you wish, you may contact (insert local building code officials name and phone number), they are the building official for this area and should be able to tell you what I can not due to state law.

**Steven Turetsky** · 02-11-2013, 12:34 PM

Wow! That is really screwy!

**Mark Hagenlock** · 02-11-2013, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by ren ramsey

I have started seeing more of this lately, Vinyl siding installed without a barrier behind it. It's just installed right on the osb sheeting. NC codes don't' allow it and require a barrier acccodiinf to the State code offical, but our NC Home Inspection Board dos not allow us to cite code. Called Cerainteed and they say it is recommended but not required as far as they are concerned. Local code guy says it's ok on just the OSB. Obviously I got to inform the client but with some saying yes and some saying no what's the proper wording when you got answers all over the board?

Siding is installed around doors and windows. I can't think of any manufacturer who's installation instructions of doors and windows don't include building paper or house wrap, along with the assumption of proper installation of (building paper or house wrap). .........Okay, fine your siding will pass. All your window and door installs are incorrect. and your hose bib penetrations, and exhaust fan, and, and,

Joe Funderburk · 02-11-2013, 02:22 PM

Was not required by the IRC until 2006. No defect, nothing to report if the house is older than 2006. (I do include an informational statement.)

**Darren Miller** · 02-11-2013, 02:26 PM

I would write what Scott has written above and then include this or a link to this.

**Ken Rowe** · 02-11-2013, 10:38 PM

Nearly all vinyl siding manufacturers defer the installation instructions to the Vinyl Siding Institute of America. Home - VSI - The Vinyl Siding Institute

If they instruct that it should be installed, it doesn't matter what the building code says from a home inspector's view. Even if it wasn't code or present in the installation instructions when the siding was installed it's still a suggested repair now. Just like GFCI's weren't around in the 1960's, we still suggest their installation.

**Garry Sorrells** · 02-12-2013, 05:12 AM

Nothing between the siding and the sheathing is something I would make a point to bring to the clients attention. I would also point out what the probable outcome of the installation method. Code , smode, it is just plain bad and I would say so in plain construction terms.

If you felt that you would want to make a statement about Code. I would go the way of Scott. " State regulations prevent me from saying that _______ does not meet code today though it possibly did when installed. So I can not address the Code issue. Call the local Code official for Code questions or concerns."

Dennis Webber · 02-12-2013, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Joe Funderburk

Was not required by the IRC until 2006. No defect, nothing to report if the house is older than 2006.

Well, yes and no. While it wasn't mandatory in the the 2003 IRC, North Carolina had modified this section of the IRC in their 2006 State Building Code Amendments, to require it unless certain conditions were met:

TABLE R703.4 WEATHER-RESISTANT SIDING ATTACHMENT AND MINIMUM THICKNESS
Vinyl siding(n) / 0.035 / Lap / Yes - Note (m)
-------
m. A weather-resistant sheathing paper is not required if all of the following conditions are met:
1. Design wind speed is 110 mph or less,
2. All horizontal sheathing joints are flashed with an approved corrosion-resistive material or draped with a minimum 6 mil polyethylene.

While a good knowledge of the IRC is manditory for doing inspections, keep in-mind that the IRC is not the legal version of the code; it's the individual state code, which has been adopted and amended, that's law.

The IRC is only the basis (or starting point) of each state's legally-required building code.

While the 2003 IRC did not reqire paper, in this particular case (North Carolina) sheathing paper would have been required (unless they had met both parts 1 & 2 under the 2006 NC state building code.)

**Rick Vernon** · 02-12-2013, 12:59 PM

Hi Ren, how about a modified statement such as
" There is no weather-resistant sheathing paper behind the siding which makes it important to seal all holes, cracks or open seams to prevent water penetration"
Could you get away with a statement such this.

**Bruce Ramsey** · 02-12-2013, 02:41 PM

The Realtors and HBA lobbied the NC legislators 2 years ago pushing the citeing of code issue. At the time there were only about 1500 inspectors statewide. Only about 1/3 to 1/2 belong to associations. Even when all the associations play nicely and work together, there is/was not enough money and pull to completely sway the legislators when compared to the RE and HBA lobbying money.

The licensing law actually states inspectors cannot cite NORTH CAROLINA RESIDENTIAL CODE without posting the code in effect at the time the defective part was installed. Does not say anything about citing IRC, UPC, UMC, or NEC. So technically you could cite the IRC and there is no legal basis for them to complain or attack you other than you are referenceing a code that is not in effect in NC. A simple loophole in the law.

Yeah, all the inspectors complained at the time. The associations did pay two different lobbist and did succeed in watering down a whole lot of silliness being proposed at the time by RE and HBA. Citeing code stayed.

Jeffrey L. Mathis · 02-12-2013, 08:07 PM

North Carolina allowed vinyl over OSB until the 2011 code. All the starter home builders did it that way in my area (Eastern NC) I included it in my report but not on the summary page.
My reading of the Vinyl Siding Institute's paperwork is that unless it is installed over an approved barrier, it is not installed properly and may void any warranties. OSB is not an approved barrier as I read it. But code allowed it. So I have a canned statement to that effect and recommend not pressure washing it against the laps.
What's really good is a double car garage with vinyl siding. J-channel has become the modern day drip cap. But since is doesn't come in 17 foot lengths, there's always a joint over the header. The aluminum header trim will always have a joint since they don't make 17' breaks.
You show me 100 vinyl sided houses with double garage openings and I'll show you 90 houses with a problem.

JLMathis

Joe Funderburk · 02-13-2013, 07:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jeffrey L. Mathis

All the starter home builders did it that way in my area (Eastern NC) I included it in my report but not on the summary page. My reading of the Vinyl Siding Institute's paperwork is that unless it is installed over an approved barrier, it is not installed properly and may void any warranties. OSB is not an approved barrier as I read it. But code allowed it. So I have a canned statement to that effect and recommend not pressure washing it against the laps.

Ditto. I include a statement informing the buyer of a lack of the WRB, but don't make alarming statements because the code allowed it to be installed that way.

I do try to verify that there is flashing at the windows and doors. Often, if the WRB is absent, so is the flashing. This I DO make a big deal about.