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  1. #1
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    Exclamation New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    We live in very rural South Texas. Codes, Inspectors, and all the other "norms" of the big cities are hard to enforce around here. The problem with that is...we hired a company to install a whole new pier and beam foundation under our 50'x60 ' home that was cut in half and moved by a house mover onto our land. We agreed to a $60,000 contract from a local company to install a completely new foundation under our new home that includes all new beams (the original ones were cut or damaged in some way by the movers), all new concrete piers and a cinder block skirting wall around the perimeter of the home (the crawlspace).
    I've attached some pictures of his work. He even hired a structural engineer that came out and approved this work! The naked eye can tell our home isn't level, yet this engineer is signing off that it is. None of the piers were poured level, the house is over 3 inches higher on the left side than the right side (which the engineer says is "within normal margin of error" on a house this size. He used scrap pieces of wood for shims, some stacked six inches or higher. Doors and windows will not open and close because it is so out of level and they tell me it is because the "house was built that way". This home was a brand new, never lived in Model home used by a local builder. Anyway, can anyone please tell me if this type of work is acceptable? Its actually considered more of a new foundation as opposed to a repaired foundation because he is being paid to start from scratch--form new beams, correctly install new beams, form new piers, correctly install new piers and of course, level the home.
    Is there code that dictates shim materials, size and height? Pier dimensions & correct beam construction as well as proper installation? Can anyone tell me who I would call when he has an engineer telling him this is correct? My apologies for the lengthy message, esp being a newby! Any help is greatly appreciated.

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  2. #2
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    Hello Jamie Webb,

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Webb View Post
    We live in very rural South Texas. Codes, Inspectors, and all the other "norms" of the big cities are hard to enforce around here. The problem with that is...we hired a company to install a whole new pier and beam foundation under our 50'x60 ' home that was cut in half and moved by a house mover onto our land. We agreed to a $60,000 contract from a local company to install a completely new foundation under our new home that includes all new beams (the original ones were cut or damaged in some way by the movers), all new concrete piers and a cinder block skirting wall around the perimeter of the home (the crawlspace).
    I've attached some pictures of his work. He even hired a structural engineer that came out and approved this work! The naked eye can tell our home isn't level, yet this engineer is signing off that it is. None of the piers were poured level, the house is over 3 inches higher on the left side than the right side (which the engineer says is "within normal margin of error" on a house this size. He used scrap pieces of wood for shims, some stacked six inches or higher. Doors and windows will not open and close because it is so out of level and they tell me it is because the "house was built that way". This home was a brand new, never lived in Model home used by a local builder. Anyway, can anyone please tell me if this type of work is acceptable? Its actually considered more of a new foundation as opposed to a repaired foundation because he is being paid to start from scratch--form new beams, correctly install new beams, form new piers, correctly install new piers and of course, level the home.
    Is there code that dictates shim materials, size and height? Pier dimensions & correct beam construction as well as proper installation? Can anyone tell me who I would call when he has an engineer telling him this is correct? My apologies for the lengthy message, esp being a newby! Any help is greatly appreciated.

    Jamie,

    First thing would be to talk to the contractor about your concerns. Let them know that you are unhappy with the current results and your demands. If you have already done that and are still dissatisfied, I am afraid that the best bet might be to contact an attorney. Workmanship might or might not be covered in your contract with the contractor and an attorney can give you direction. At that point, inspectors, structural engineers, etc. will be hired to document the conditions.

    Department of Redundancy Department
    Supreme Emperor of Hyperbole
    http://www.FullCircleInspect.com/

  4. #4
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Jamie,

    First thing would be to talk to the contractor about your concerns. Let them know that you are unhappy with the current results and your demands. If you have already done that and are still dissatisfied, I am afraid that the best bet might be to contact an attorney. Workmanship might or might not be covered in your contract with the contractor and an attorney can give you direction. At that point, inspectors, structural engineers, etc. will be hired to document the conditions.
    Thank you so much for your advice. I have spoken with the contractor numerous times about my concerns and have over 50 photographs of problems similar to the ones I posted here. Because his engineer states everything is good, he is perfectly fine leaving it the way it is, saying I need to take it up with the engineer. I suppose in a way, he is right. But to some degree, you'd think he would care that his customer is extremely unhappy with his work. They have "finished" the foundation and have started digging the trench for the concrete footing where the skirting will go. I don't know if I should stop them, or which way to go. Do you know what type of attorney I would contact? Who deals with construction issues like this? Someone said a real estate attorney? Thanks again for your help.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    I recommend the following:
    - First, hire your own engineer or construction consultant to assess the work versus the contract, codes and standards.

    - Then meet with an attorney (presuming that the result of your person / people is that the work doesn't meet the contract, codes and standards).

    In another thread about slopes, I mentioned that landings are permitted to slope 1/4" per foot, which i1 inch every 4 feet ... and sounds like what that engineer is thinking about - slopes ...but you are talking about a different issue - construction tolerance from a line or plane, not a slope.

    Here are some examples of construction tolerances:
    - masonry work: 1/2" in 20' from a line: i.e. the masonry is permitted to 'zig-zag' away from, and back to then intended line not more than 1/2" over 20', it is not allowed to keep going off the line another 1/2" over the next 20 feet
    - slabs for wood floors are allowed to vary off a flat plane by 1/4" in 10', i.e., the slab surface is allowed to not be "perfectly" "in-plane" ... the floor is allowed to be level or sloping based on the design, but the floor needs to be "flat" within tolerance
    - Every trade/work has different allowable construction tolerances, with "rough" work being allowed greater tolerances than "finish" work.

    The tolerance for the level/in-plane height of the piers will have a tolerance for both vertical for each pier, and the bearing surface will have a tolerance to meet for being at the correct height to serve as supports for in-plane (flatness) of the design.

    Which brings up additional questions - was the job permitted, what does your contract say, what construction documents (plans, etc) were submitted for the work.

    That engineer seems to be applying a tolerance from a line as though it was a slope amount.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    As far as I can see by the pics, that work is completely unacceptable.

    The contractor's
    engineer is probably not a trained, qualified, licensed, engineer, if he is then he is also an incompetent one. That one bracket on the pier, at the end of that board, looks like it has been cut, the use of those shims bearing the weight between the pier and the beam is NOT correct. I can"t imagine what other kinds of unacceptable building methods were used under there.

    IMO being level is one of the least of your problems. I suggest you
    stop the work. Document all contacts and conversations that you had with the contractor and engineer regarding this work, names, dates and what was said to whom, take as many pictures as you can showing all the work done so far, including the exterior of the home and how it sits . Defnitely hire a professional home inspector or construction engineer of your own choice who can evaluate and document the problems, get a report and contact a lawyer who specializes in cases like this. I dont think real estate lawyer is the kind that you need.
    This is my opinion only, you are in the right.

    Last edited by Elizabeth Chambers; 07-12-2018 at 05:24 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    I recommend the following:
    - First, hire your own engineer or construction consultant to assess the work versus the contract, codes and standards.

    - Then meet with an attorney (presuming that the result of your person / people is that the work doesn't meet the contract, codes and standards).

    In another thread about slopes, I mentioned that landings are permitted to slope 1/4" per foot, which i1 inch every 4 feet ... and sounds like what that engineer is thinking about - slopes ...but you are talking about a different issue - construction tolerance from a line or plane, not a slope.

    Here are some examples of construction tolerances:
    - masonry work: 1/2" in 20' from a line: i.e. the masonry is permitted to 'zig-zag' away from, and back to then intended line not more than 1/2" over 20', it is not allowed to keep going off the line another 1/2" over the next 20 feet
    - slabs for wood floors are allowed to vary off a flat plane by 1/4" in 10', i.e., the slab surface is allowed to not be "perfectly" "in-plane" ... the floor is allowed to be level or sloping based on the design, but the floor needs to be "flat" within tolerance
    - Every trade/work has different allowable construction tolerances, with "rough" work being allowed greater tolerances than "finish" work.

    The tolerance for the level/in-plane height of the piers will have a tolerance for both vertical for each pier, and the bearing surface will have a tolerance to meet for being at the correct height to serve as supports for in-plane (flatness) of the design.

    Which brings up additional questions - was the job permitted, what does your contract say, what construction documents (plans, etc) were submitted for the work.

    That engineer seems to be applying a tolerance from a line as though it was a slope amount.
    Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this information. While trying desperately to research what the engineer (the contractors engineer) was trying to tell us, I believe it is THIS difference (between a slope and construction tolerance from a line/plane) that is misconstruing the information...not to mention confusing as he*l! But your examples have helped greatly.

    I did hire a structural engineer with experience directly relating to residential foundations. He provided a report that cited many of the issues we've discussed and a few of which we were not even aware. I presented the information to the contractor, who was obviously taken aback that I had called his bluff and hired my own engineer. Today he reported that "all the issues have been repaired" and that HIS engineer would be coming out tomorrow to sign off on certifying this awful mess of a foundation. Although hired to completely re-construct our foundation from the joists down, no plans, no design, no ANYTHING was ever created to go by. They just started randomly putting beams and piers here and there with no consideration of load-bearing walls, etc. My husband went back under the house this evening and documented the same problems and a few new ones. So I guess now I will present this information to his "engineer" tomorrow to see if he is really willing to put his reputation on the line by certifying this nightmare. I don't know what recourse I would have if he actually does go ahead with the certification. Surely there is an Engineers "code"(?) that would require them to conform to a certain guideline of simple human decency! I truly feel this engineer is being "bought" by the contractor. I researched his credentials, hes the genuine deal with a civil engineer license registered through the state of Texas. But what would make someone want to sign their name to such work?

    Our problem here is lack of oversight in this little po-dunk rural community. The closest town (3 miles away) has a whopping population of 1350 souls. There is no such thing as "permits" or "inspections" or any of the things of which big city dwellers must comply! How I wish I had a city inspector to go to that would back me and help to insure this was all done correctly. But we don't...and the contractor knows it. I have pictures and videos from every angle imaginable, I have numerous emails, hundreds of text messages sent back and forth, the written documentation of an engineer specializing in residential foundations, the advice of experienced "persons-in-the-know" from forums such as this....and yet, I still cannot make this guy understand how wrong everything is. Previously I thought as long as this guy is willing to go back and make the corrections, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and the opportunity to make it right. Now I see that he is just trying to BS his way out of this. He won't admit that there is any problem with his work and continues to remind me that he is finished with this foundation, and that my "pickiness" is only costing time and money. Meanwhile, if I seek litigation, there are no guarantees. Whatever move I make is going to be a hardship on me and an overall delay in our plans to move into our home before the holidays. Thank you again for your wonderful advice. The largest city near us is 35 minutes away (Corpus Christi, TX), how I wish I could find a "Construction Litigation Consultant" in this area (noticed your catchy title)...you wouldn't happen to know what direction I would look to find someone like yourself near rural South Texas, by an chance??


  8. #8
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Webb View Post
    I did hire a structural engineer with experience directly relating to residential foundations. He provided a report that cited many of the issues we've discussed and a few of which we were not even aware.
    If the contractor's engineer signs off, have your engineer inspect the repairs and issue a current report - and tell the contractor's engineer that you are going to do that.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Webb View Post
    Our problem here is lack of oversight in this little po-dunk rural community. The closest town (3 miles away) has a whopping population of 1350 souls. There is no such thing as "permits" or "inspections" or any of the things of which big city dwellers must comply!
    My recollection is that Texas does have a code which is adopted statewide for those areas which have not adopted their own code - that statewide code would be applicable to your area.

    How I wish I had a city inspector to go to that would back me and help to insure this was all done correctly.
    Any Texas inspectors have contacts with those in 'gobmint' who deal in with the statewide code and its enforcement?

    The largest city near us is 35 minutes away (Corpus Christi, TX), how I wish I could find a "Construction Litigation Consultant" in this area (noticed your catchy title)...you wouldn't happen to know what direction I would look to find someone like yourself near rural South Texas, by an chance??
    Any Texas inspectors out there know anyone in the Corpus Christi area?

    You mentioned "35 minutes away" as though that is a long drive - I don't know about most, but I'm used to (in South Florida) 35 minutes to basically get across the street, and up here in the Ormond Beach/Daytona Beach/Port Orange Florida area, it takes 35 minutes to get many places in the metropolitan area - we went to dinner at a friends house in Palm Coast last night - a 35 minute drive to the next city to the north of us. My point being that "35 minutes" is not a long drive to most, especially to most who are in business.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  10. #10
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    My recollection is that Texas does have a code which is adopted statewide for those areas which have not adopted their own code - that statewide code would be applicable to your area.



    Any Texas inspectors have contacts with those in 'gobmint' who deal in with the statewide code and its enforcement?



    Any Texas inspectors out there know anyone in the Corpus Christi area?

    You mentioned "35 minutes away" as though that is a long drive - I don't know about most, but I'm used to (in South Florida) 35 minutes to basically get across the street, and up here in the Ormond Beach/Daytona Beach/Port Orange Florida area, it takes 35 minutes to get many places in the metropolitan area - we went to dinner at a friends house in Palm Coast last night - a 35 minute drive to the next city to the north of us. My point being that "35 minutes" is not a long drive to most, especially to most who are in business.
    Thank you for the reply and shout out for help in my area! I completely agree--35 minutes from a major city is not far at all, which is another reason it has been so frustrating trying to find enforcement/inspectors, etc. Yes, we're in the country, but not THAT much in the country! :-)~ This morning the contractor informed me that he will need "payment in full" if he is expected to continue working, because he is "already over budget." I was speechless. The engineers report that I provided detailed the many, many violations & issues he discovered as well as his recommendation for repairs. The contractor has not made an effort to rectify any of the problems. I believe its time to contact an attorney, I just had hoped somehow it wouldn't come to that. Thanks again. If you learn of anyone in my area that can help, I can pay whatever fees are charged and would appreciate their input. Wish me luck...


  11. #11
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    Default Re: New Member Desperately Seeking Direction

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie Webb View Post
    This morning the contractor informed me that he will need "payment in full" if he is expected to continue working, because he is "already over budget."
    He requested that because he knows that if he can't get you to pay now ... he likely will never get it ... and if you do pay him now ... you'll likely never get him back to do anything else - which you don't want him to do anything else (based on what he's already done).

    Look for construction consultants / engineers / experts within about a two to two and a half hour drive as that should expand the area you are looking at to include some major cities.

    You'll likely have to pay their hourly rate for travel time too, but you should be able to find someone out there within that larger area.

    How far is San Antonio, Houston, and other larger cities?

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

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