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  1. #1
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    Default Secondary Electrical panel

    Would this be OK ? I had a 200 amp main service panel, with a 50 amp rated breaker servicing a secondary distribution panel that has a main disconnect of 100 amp. Is there any thing wrong with this ?? (sorry for the terminology)
    1st Picture is of AKA sub-panel, 2nd pic. is of 50 amp breaker inside the main panel, 3rd pic. is off is of main panelDSCN4725.JPG

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Secondary Electrical panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    Would this be OK ? I had a 200 amp main service panel, with a 50 amp rated breaker servicing a secondary distribution panel that has a main disconnect of 100 amp. Is there any thing wrong with this ??
    The information needed to fully answer the question is this: what is the rating of the second panel?

    Without that information, the answer is: Nothing wrong with having a 50 amp breaker in the service equipment feed a 100 amp breaker in second panel ... provided that the second panel mains are rated for 50 amp minimum (which is the protection for the feeders and that second panel) ... and provided that the feeders are also at least 50 amp rated.

    The feeders and the panel that the 50 amp breaker protects must be rated for at least that 50 amps. Any higher rating is not a problem as the 50 amp breaker limits what goes past that 50 amp breaker to 50 amps.

    It's kind of like trying to feed a 2" fire hose with a 3/4" garden hose ... no more water is going to come out of that 2" fire hose than can get through that 3/4" garden hose.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Secondary Electrical panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    The information needed to fully answer the question is this: what is the rating of the second panel?

    Without that information, the answer is: Nothing wrong with having a 50 amp breaker in the service equipment feed a 100 amp breaker in second panel ... provided that the second panel mains are rated for 50 amp minimum (which is the protection for the feeders and that second panel) ... and provided that the feeders are also at least 50 amp rated.

    The feeders and the panel that the 50 amp breaker protects must be rated for at least that 50 amps. Any higher rating is not a problem as the 50 amp breaker limits what goes past that 50 amp breaker to 50 amps.

    It's kind of like trying to feed a 2" fire hose with a 3/4" garden hose ... no more water is going to come out of that 2" fire hose than can get through that 3/4" garden hose.
    1. Secondary distribution panel (2nd panel) has a 100 amp main breaker- YES (Picture not focused)
    Easy to understand, Thank You

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Secondary Electrical panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    1. Secondary distribution panel (2nd panel) has a 100 amp main breaker- YES ...
    What is the rating of the panel bus, that will be shown on the panel label.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Secondary Electrical panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    What is the rating of the panel bus, that will be shown on the panel label.
    The dead front cover had been removed and was missing, I have no idea
    and Yes and the neutral and grounds were bonded together. Wrong
    I'm Not familiar with this type Square D panel, are the 2 blue screws at the top off bus bar bonding the neutrals and grounds together ?? Anyways they should be separated because this is a secondary panel

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    Last edited by Sam Morris; 02-05-2020 at 06:18 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Secondary Electrical panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Morris View Post
    The dead front cover had been removed and was missing, ...
    Add that to your list of items which follows "Have licensed and qualified electrical contractor correct all the non-code compliant violations in this panel, including but not limited to (list what you have), and including any code violations made during those corrections" (it happens all the time ... the panel is often left with code violations which were not there prefer the "correction work" was performed.

    Does that make some electricians mad? Sure, but it covers your butt, and puts them on notice that you have that in the report.

    Sure, they may say "There were not any code violations when I finished working on that panel", which is okay for you because they are saying 'so any violations there now were made after I left' ... which means those violations were NOT there when you were there.

    Jerry Peck
    Construction/Litigation/Code Consultant - Retired
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Secondary Electrical panel

    The green screw on the top right is the bond screw location. Square D requires a separate ground bar. Both bars installed are neutral bars.

    Since the main breaker is rated for 100 amps the bus is rated for that current.

    All answers based on unamended National Electrical codes.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Secondary Electrical panel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
    The green screw on the top right is the bond screw location. Square D requires a separate ground bar. Both bars installed are neutral bars.

    Since the main breaker is rated for 100 amps the bus is rated for that current.
    From my experience, the blue screws connect the horizontal connector to the vertical neutral bars. If the neutral to ground bond was installed, it would be a green screw in the center of the horizontal bonding bar, which is absent in the photos.

    From what I can see, this load center has neutral and ground branch wiring tied together on the neutral bar and the load center enclosure (case) is ungrounded. All grounds should be connected to a ground bar tied to the load center enclosure.


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