Stone Veneer and Garage Jamb/Wrap

[Paula Anderson]

Hi all,

First time poster here. I had to have my garage door wrap replaced due to rotten wood. After the wrap was replaced the weatherstrip started sagging due to water retention. The contractor then caulked my stone veneer which made the sag worse. The contractor has been back and has removed the caulk, the wrap and the top jamb. MIA for 2 weeks. I thought I would take a stab at it and purchased some PVC Brickmould, strips, weatherstripping and treated lumber to replace the top jamb. The brickmould left a significant gap between the veneer and the jamb. I could see the wood from the jamb. Question is can I caulk that gap or will the caulk block a drainage route? I assume I will have the same issue with the top jamb. After a wee bit of research it seems I should have a weep screed. Where exactly should I place it? I assume I should put it place before I put the top jamb back. There are 2 spots in the top jamb where I could potentially slide in some flashing but which spot should I use. Should I even use PVC or should I go back to the metal wrap? Thanks for any help.

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[Jerry Peck]

I am trying to follow what you are saying and showing in the photos:

After the wrap was replaced the weatherstrip started sagging due to water retention. The contractor then caulked my stone veneer which made the sag worse. The contractor has been back and has removed the caulk, the wrap and the top jamb. MIA for 2 weeks.

As I read that, there is no top jamb (it was removed), no caulk (this was removed, and caulk should not be the primary water barrier), and ... I see wrap in the photos. I see it, but it was/is not done properly (with openings in the wall, the wrap should have continued down and under the wood shown in the first photo) ... except for openings for doors (see description below).

Did the contractor cut that wrap off, or was there no wrap there to start with?

Description:

- However, doing it that way with a garage door opening (where there is no built-in way to flash the top of the opening), with the wrap going down and under the wood shown in the photo (which looks like it shows: the top buck inside; what looks like plywood; the header {which is two 2x with plywood sandwiched between the two 2x}; and then the sheathing), any drainage would drain where you do not want drainage to be ... onto the top of the top jamb, with the water either pouring inside or outside, or both.

- What should have been done with an opening like a garage door (or for any door - note, depending on the wall cladding, other things may be required) would have been to have installed a metal flashing up behind the wrap, sealed to the wall, then the wrap over it. That flashing would then divert any drainage water down and outside.

However, I see another issue: With that wrap serving as the drainage plane, a second wrap should have been installed over the first wrap to act as a bond breaker between the mortar used to adhere the stone veneer.

Other things may be required:

- With an additional issue being that the stone veneer should have support for its weight, i,e, a shelf-angle or lintel (there may be manufacturer's installation instructions which may not require additional support over the mortar and metal lath - - and that lath looks like "chicken wire", not proper lath). Lintels and shelf-angles are similar but different. A lintel is supported at its ends and supports from end-to-end and supports the load above it, where a shelf-angle is attached to the wall behind it and the wall supports the shelf-angle and the load on the shelf-angle.

- Each of the lintel/shelf-angle/flashing would need to be behind the wrap - behind all layers of the wrap. As would the first layer of wrap which serves as the drainage plane, the second layer of wrap serves as a bond breaker.

That said ... how do others see that stone veneer installed in their areas? One layer of wrap or two? Shelf-angle or lintel? All of which would then need a flashing to bring the drainage out to the surface of the wall cladding.

[Paula Anderson]

The garage used to be wrapped in a white metal for 12 years before the top jamb rotted. Contractor came and wrapped with new wrap and replaced top jamb in December. Weather stripping started sagging in January and that is when the contractor said the veneer needed to be caulked. The caulking of the veneer made the sagging worse. I suspect this was because it blocked any drainage route the veneer previously had. Water was dripping from the nails in the weather stripping. Contractor came out 2 weeks ago and removed all wrap, the top jamb and the caulk. So the pictures are the current state of the garage with no wrap. Can?t see the pictures as I reply but I may have uploaded a pic of what the garage looked liked before the contractor removed the original wrap.

Upon suggestion of the contractor I cut out a hole in the drywall on the interior of the garage to see if I could see water dripping behind the shakes and the veneer. The hole was dry and there was no evidence of a leak occuring on the interior side of the veneer and shakes.

I don?t have the proper equipment to bend metal so I am hoping to get a PVC wrap that I can do myself. I am concerned with how much wood shows as the brickmould does not fit between the veneer and the jamb like the metal wrap did. The pic of the side just shows the gap and not the wood or brickmould.

[Jerry Peck]

The garage used to be wrapped in a white metal for 12 years before the top jamb rotted. Contractor came and wrapped with new wrap and replaced top jamb in December.
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Contractor came out 2 weeks ago and removed all wrap, the top jamb and the caulk. So the pictures are the current state of the garage with no wrap.

The photos show a single layer of wrap behind the stone veneer.

Are you saying that those are not the current photos?

If so ... then I have no idea of what you have now.

If not ... then I have no idea of what you are saying as what your said above does not match what the photos show.

Did you accidentally load the wrong photos?

[Paula Anderson]

The pictures are how the garage looks now. I thought I might have uploaded a picture of what the garage looked like with the wrap. I would like to know if I can use PVC wrap vs the metal. If so, can I caulk the space between the PVC and jambs. The contractor is MIA and I would like to get the garage wrapped soon. Flies and other flying insects are getting in the openings. I guess another option would be to paint the wood jambs and install weather stripping. I do need to install the top jamb. Should that be treated wood or not?

[Jerry Peck]

Ahhh ... "wrap" ...

I am referring to the house wrap over the sheathing and behind everything else.

You are referring to "wrapping" the garage door opening in trim.

Now my question is this: what did the contractor remove?

a) House wrap?

b) Garage door trim?

If a), the contractor removed the stone veneer and everything I was referring to.

If b), what I was describing likely made no sense to you.

[Paula Anderson]

Now my question is this: what did the contractor remove?

a) House wrap? No

b) Garage door trim? Removed all the trim from the garage door and the top rotten jamb which was 2?x6?x16?. I need to replace that before I can attempt any trim work. Should that piece of lumber be treated or not? I had treated but the flashing I have said do not place in contact with treated wood. I need flashing to help divert any water from the shakes to pass over the top jamb.

If a), the contractor removed the stone veneer and everything I was referring to.

If b), what I was describing likely made no sense to you.

[Jerry Peck]

First, another question: a) what is the height of the garage rough door opening as shown in your photo, bottom to top; and, b) what is the height of your garage door?

If b) is 7 feet, which is the typical height of a standard garage door (typical heights are 7', 8', 9', and greater), the the height of the finished opening (with the top jamb installed) would be slightly less.

Typically, the top of the garage door closes to the top jamb, so the bottom edge of the top jamb would be about 1/2" less than the height of the door - a 7 foot door would have a rough opening of 7' 1-1/2" (the 1-1/2" allows for a 1-1/2" top jamb, which is a 2x).

Thus, a) would likely be 1-1/2" greater than your garage door height.

[Markus Keller]

You aren't going to like this. Based on what I am seeing I would suggest you plan out when you are going to remove that stone veneer before it falls down. Garage looks great but does not appear to be an installation that will hold up long term.

- Looks like the stone is adhered to plywood/OSB rather than durock. Not the smartest installation. What do we use for foundation concrete form pours because concrete doesn't stick to it well? Plywood. Might be some house wrap under the stone but I couldn't say for sure.
- Did the contractor provide any specifications on mortar/thinset used, spec.'s on adhesion, etc.?
- Did the contractor explain what will support those stones over time as the plywood and garage shift as is normal and/or you bump the garage? No? Didn't think so.
- the soldiers have no bottom support which means as weather seeps into those mortar joints causing erosion and detachment, the soldiers might start to fall. It wouldn't be the first time. Really should have had bottom structural bottom support for long term life span. Adding various types of trim should keep pieces from falling long enough for you to notice there is a problem.
- Water is likely coming in from the vinyl siding to stone joint across the top and then running down the wall. Did the install any flashing at that joint behind the vinyl?

From a street level perspective, do I figure something out to make it stay in place long enough or do I start over? It's all about the money.