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  1. #1
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    Default Wow...Check this out.

    I saw this today. It was in the center of the beam which spanned 15ish feet and supported the second floor. Crazy...

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    Last edited by Marc M; 01-18-2010 at 09:04 PM.
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  2. #2
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
    A.D. Miller Guest

    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Marc:

    Likely the previous location of a door opener installed by a genius.

    Aaron


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    Marc:

    Likely the previous location of a door opener installed by a genius.

    Aaron
    .

    And another genius to remove the offending opener track and LEAVE the notched beam.

    'My home inspector said that the garage door opener track should not go through the beam like that, to monitor it, so I removed the garage door opener like my home inspector said to. I do look at that several times a week like my home inspector wanted me to do.'

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    I wish id taken a picture of the "sag" in the member, but there was so much junk in that garage I couldnt get back far enough.


  5. #5

    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    That big post in the middle of the garage is gonna be a bummer.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    That beam is nothing I tell you, NOTHING!

    I have an 8" x 8" x 20' beam on the 2nd floor of my house where they had notched a 30" section to a thickness of 2" to provide headroom in the hallway (part of a 12' span).

    Or the 6" x 6" x 20' beam on the 1st floor where they had a single column to cut the main span to a mere 14' and the beam is notched 3" at the top to receive the floor joists. (Is there a name for this construction technique - other than "improper"?)

    Or how about the 8" x 8" x 20' beam in my basement where they had removed all of the inconvenient posts to accommodate a water heater. Plus, the previous owner couldn't stomach the idea of killing her poor little powder post beetle friends... talk about beam deflection.

    Or how about the... okay, I'll stop now. We've all seen it before.


  7. #7
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    This was just singed off by the city Build inspector. the dude never check the attic framing just the sheathing from the street. areas of the sheathing was off the original rafters more then 2"INCH.

    But if the city guy says its ok its must be ok...

    One way to take out the uneven areas of the roof

    Best

    Ron

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    I wish id taken a picture of the "sag" in the member, but there was so much junk in that garage I couldnt get back far enough.

    Sorry to hear about the sag in your member.

    They do make products for that can be of assistance. Have you seen Smiling Bob?


  9. #9
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
    Ted Menelly Guest

    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Shoot. That beam is probably just holding up a king size water bed on the second floor. No problemo.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    Sorry to hear about the sag in your member.

    They do make products for that can be of assistance. Have you seen Smiling Bob?
    LMAO...Didnt even catch that until you did..


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Ron, what you took pictures of is typical framing for that era of houses.....50's---60's.

    If anything they made the rafters stronger by doubling up the 2X4 rafters with the scab-on.


  12. #12
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    Ron, what you took pictures of is typical framing for that era of houses.....50's---60's.

    If anything they made the rafters stronger by doubling up the 2X4 rafters with the scab-on.
    The only thing that is holding up the sheathing is the nails of the 2x4. there is no support for the kickers or the 2x4 just nails. One of the hips has a plywood scab on one side with no support. this framing is a mess. would buy that?

    this was all done just this year.

    Best

    Ron


  13. #13
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    Chicago, Il
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    The protection from fire impingment provided by the gypsum was removed when the notch was cut into the beam.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    So what is the suggestion in the end? Definitely "wrong" or refer to a PE for evaluation?

    For all we know, the beam could have been oversized (I know, not likely) and the notch is still within the load tolerances. I've certainly oversized a number of beams and headers in the past, you know, just in case someone down the road wants to put a hot tub on the porch roof.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    No need to spend the clients money on an engineer, have them get it repaired. No further study or evaluation needed. It is broken, fix it.
    If the person doing the repairs needs an engineer to design a fix (not likely) then let them pay for it and include it in the repair estimate.)

    I wish id taken a picture of the "sag"


    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    The only thing that is holding up the sheathing is the nails of the 2x4. there is no support for the kickers or the 2x4 just nails. One of the hips has a plywood scab on one side with no support. this framing is a mess. would buy that?

    this was all done just this year.

    Best

    Ron
    If it was done this year then a positive NO! The reason I stated what I did because it looks like the framing methods were from the 50' - 60's.

    Maybe an "old" carpenter did it! Sure don't build em like they used too!!! I always say...Thank GOD!

    The wood sure looks like it has been there a long time...with the sap and discolorization to it though!


  17. #17
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    The original was from the 50/60. but then the were trying to fix the uneven drop in the rafters. and added the 2x4s and the new roof sheathing. the city inspector did not check the framing of the attic he just look at the sheathing from on top.

    Best

    Ron


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    This is one of those things that you guys (HI's) have the upper hand on.
    You can report that the framing does not comform to current standards where the AHJ cannot require the contractor to bring things up to current codes. Unless work is being performed on that portion of the structure.

    That may be why the BI passed it. Not trying to defend him but there is a lot of difference between a HI and a BI on what the laws allow.


  19. #19
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Carlisle View Post
    This is one of those things that you guys (HI's) have the upper hand on.
    You can report that the framing does not comform to current standards where the AHJ cannot require the contractor to bring things up to current codes. Unless work is being performed on that portion of the structure.

    That may be why the BI passed it. Not trying to defend him but there is a lot of difference between a HI and a BI on what the laws allow.
    No i think if he went into the attic and look at what the contractor was doing before a side go ahead and put the roof down he would have said stop. Now the buyer of this home will need to understand that they have a problem hear.

    Best

    Ron


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    No need to spend the clients money on an engineer, have them get it repaired. No further study or evaluation needed. It is broken, fix it.
    If the person doing the repairs needs an engineer to design a fix (not likely) then let them pay for it and include it in the repair estimate.)
    Im with you. My company represents the agent / bank for the repairs so there isnt a buyer for this particular house, yet. But it is scheduled to be repaired. And yes, we're going to have an engineer figure out a repair or R&R the beam. BTY, its not a typical beam, it looks like 3 pcs of 2" plywood glued together. But according to IRC R502.8 & 502.8.8., specifically the latter of the two; suggests that this may be engineered and therefore un-notchable? As if...


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Wow...Check this out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc M View Post
    BTY, its not a typical beam, it looks like 3 pcs of 2" plywood glued together.
    Might they be 1-3/4" in which case it may be three plies of LVL. See http://www.ilevel.com/literature/TJ-9000.pdf pg 38 assembly B for an example.

    If joined properly three plies of LVL can be quite strong. Without suggesting that you practice engineering without a license, you can perform some quick back of the envelope calculations to determine what size beam should be there. Figure out the total square footage supported by the beam and multiply that by the LL + DL (let's assume 40LL + 20DL). Divide this by the beam span to get our lbs per lineal foot (plf). We'll then look in the appropriate table to determine the minimum beam size appropriate for the total load and live load.


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