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  1. #1
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Talking Termites and a new court case

    Got a call from an owner today to look at a Dry-wood termite infestation that was exposed during repairs to the buildings and to see the termite problems and damage from the termites and fungus infections.
    What a mess... They have a Building inspector that was to inspect the work as it was being completed but I don't think he understands that you can't cover up termite and fungus damage.

    Best

    Ron

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Ron, I don't see any mud tubes in the photo. And that area looks like a non typical area for Termites.
    Am I not seeing something. Around here the Termites would be down near the ground at framing members. Very rare to make it to a second story.
    Not that I haven't seen it, but , where's the mud?


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Dang, Ron, that's just little ol' drywood termites is all ... what's the big ol' fuss about?

    Wayne, I was typing when you were posting.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    me too, so where's the mud?


  5. #5
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    Ron, I don't see any mud tubes in the photo. And that area looks like a non typical area for Termites.
    Am I not seeing something. Around here the Termites would be down near the ground at framing members. Very rare to make it to a second story.
    Not that I haven't seen it, but , where's the mud?
    Hi Wayne a Dry-wood termite live in the Dry-wood not in the ground like a sub-termite. they don't make Dirt tubes. and they are much bigger the then a sub-termite.

    Best

    Ron


  6. #6
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    Ron, I don't see any mud tubes in the photo. And that area looks like a non typical area for Termites.
    Am I not seeing something. Around here the Termites would be down near the ground at framing members. Very rare to make it to a second story.
    Not that I haven't seen it, but , where's the mud?

    Dry-wood termites

    Not subterranean termites. They could be about anywhere with out going to ground. No termite tubes.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    So, if they are in that area is it safe to assume that the header above that garage door is history?
    Up here, Termites very rarley make it up that high, Why go up when you can move laterally. Smart bugs!
    And, what evidence did they leave behind.
    Looks like water damage to me.
    I am learning here so bear with me
    Thanks


  8. #8
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    So, if they are in that area is it safe to assume that the header above that garage door is history?
    Up here, Termites very rarley make it up that high, Why go up when you can move laterally. Smart bugs!
    And, what evidence did they leave behind.
    Looks like water damage to me.
    I am learning here so bear with me
    Thanks
    Hey Wayne... these are for the most part out west in Calif. and down the coast. If you look in the one photo that expose the framing look close and you will see little pellets in the voids of the board... that what these little guys poop out.

    Dry-wood termites. Lives in Dry-wood
    Damp-Wood Termites Lives in Damp-wood
    Sub-Termites Lives under ground
    A Formosan subterranean termite that can live in the ground or on the top of 20 story building As long as he has some moisture like from a roof leak.

    Best

    Ron


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Thanks Ron, So for the most part they do not have Green cards, but are finding plenty of work here in the USA.
    I bet they don't pay taxes and all their kids are going to school on our dime too!
    Sounds like a job for the I.N.S.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by wayne soper View Post
    And, what evidence did they leave behind.
    Looks like water damage to me.
    Little holes with just the surface of the wood left in place (with the paint on it). Their frass (technical word is poop ) is 8 sided and hard, if you stand on it layered on the floor or sidewalk it is like walking on tiny roller bearings. Because they are drywood termites their frass is very hard and very dry, they have recovered virtually all of the moisture back out of it.

    They kick their frass out the holes, so the two tell tale signs are the frass on the floor/whatever is underneath, those little holes, and the surface will sometimes by slightly concave, which gets your attention and a jab with your poker, in which case the wood crushes in and frass pours out covering your head and face with it (only once or twice, then you learn to stand back, then you get get your head and face covered with it by the wind blowing the frass, then you learn to ... ).

    As you can see in the photo, and a couple of the giveaways that it is drywood and not subterranean termites are: the wood is dry and clean, not all cruddy like subs; drywood termites eat across the grain while subs eat the softer grain, which is why sub damaged wood like like fingers of wood hanging there with nothing between them - drywood eat big areas out across the grain; the damage is smooth, almost like it was sandpapered or sandblasted, not all cruddy like subs leave things.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  11. #11
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Little holes with just the surface of the wood left in place (with the paint on it). Their frass (technical word is poop ) is 8 sided and hard, if you stand on it layered on the floor or sidewalk it is like walking on tiny roller bearings. Because they are drywood termites their frass is very hard and very dry, they have recovered virtually all of the moisture back out of it.

    They kick their frass out the holes, so the two tell tale signs are the frass on the floor/whatever is underneath, those little holes, and the surface will sometimes by slightly concave, which gets your attention and a jab with your poker, in which case the wood crushes in and frass pours out covering your head and face with it (only once or twice, then you learn to stand back, then you get get your head and face covered with it by the wind blowing the frass, then you learn to ... ).

    As you can see in the photo, and a couple of the giveaways that it is drywood and not subterranean termites are: the wood is dry and clean, not all cruddy like subs; drywood termites eat across the grain while subs eat the softer grain, which is why sub damaged wood like like fingers of wood hanging there with nothing between them - drywood eat big areas out across the grain; the damage is smooth, almost like it was sandpapered or sandblasted, not all cruddy like subs leave things.

    Great points Jerry. I will add one more... The POOP Sink like a rock.

    Will not Float... L.O.L. very true.

    Best

    Ron


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Brown View Post
    Greetings! I got them bugs, I live in Philippines, and no one here calls them anything but wood bores. The only way to get ride of them is to burn ALL the wood. I have been dealing with the damage for four years and have never seen a bug.
    I tried to reuse plywood I took out of the floor and treated to make a workbench. 6 months later see the little piles of trash they made? Guess I kneed to get some new wood soon!

    1865 broke thru paint and see smooth polished wood.
    1866 more polished wood.
    1869 pile at base of door frame.
    1870 pile on other side of frame.
    1872 pile at base of my TREATED and PAINTED work bench.
    Did you do a Float test on them... L.O.L.

    A little WD40 Works great

    Best

    Ron


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Brown View Post
    Greetings! I got them bugs, I live in Philippines, and no one here calls them anything but wood bores. The only way to get ride of them is to burn ALL the wood. I have been dealing with the damage for four years and have never seen a bug.
    I tried to reuse plywood I took out of the floor and treated to make a workbench. 6 months later see the little piles of trash they made? Guess I kneed to get some new wood soon!

    1865 broke thru paint and see smooth polished wood.
    1866 more polished wood.
    1869 pile at base of door frame.
    1870 pile on other side of frame.
    1872 pile at base of my TREATED and PAINTED work bench.
    You need to have your home tented. It is the only way to get rid of them.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Well, I learn something everyday, thank goodness. Drywood poop will not float even though it is wood. Who wooda thunk it. However, I did know that their poop just happens to be the color of their main entree so I am not completely without usefull information. Had a client while living in Tampa with a wooden chair on his front porch so he could wait for the post person and get up to date on all the sales very quickly. While I was there he asked me if I knew what the little pile of what looked a little like sawdust was on the porch underneath the chair. No mud tube....dry woods feasting on his postal perch.


  15. #15
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    You need to have your home tented. It is the only way to get rid of them.
    It's not "the only way", but it is the "only way *I* recommend".

    There are other treatments, but I never had much (any, as in none, zippo, nada) faith in them.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Brown View Post
    Greetings! I got them bugs, I live in Philippines, and no one here calls them anything but wood bores.
    Hard to tell from your photos, but ... they do look like drywood termites.

    The only way to get ride of them is to burn ALL the wood.
    If you do that, you would have to rebuild the house from a pile of ashes.

    As Ted said, tent the house, fumigate with Vikane gas ( What You Need To Know About Vikane ), then be aware that when the guy walks out with is mask and gas detector and says it is "all clear, you can go back in now", that those little things CAN RE-INFEST the house as well, there is no residual left behind.

    Call your pest control person today and schedule a fumigation. Do it every 3-4 years if your pocket book allows you to, that way, if re-infested, they have not had much time to re-establish the colony and do much damage.

    From what I heard and read when I as a certified pest control operator, at least in Florida, the "typical" re-infestation time is every 7 years, which means some are "next week" and some are "never" ...

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    When I was a young family guy, I worked my way through college by selling termite control for Orkin in Houston TX. Made some fantastic change and I loved to find drywoods! When we found drywoods it almost always meant that the home would be tented and fumigated. Not a cheap process when compared to treating for Subs.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Patterson View Post
    When I was a young family guy, I worked my way through college by selling termite control for Orkin in Houston TX. Made some fantastic change and I loved to find drywoods! When we found drywoods it almost always meant that the home would be tented and fumigated. Not a cheap process when compared to treating for Subs.

    Its funny how those drywood like the coastal regions. They never seem to venture inland much. I was always kind of curious about that no matter what I heard over the years or had been tested on I was still always wondering why the coastal areas. a few hours north to DFW and you would be hard pressed to find those little buggers. Florida was the same way. Up and down the coast but not much inland.

    Scott

    They actually still let you enter Texas since you came here and then moved. I thought once one settled in Texas and then moved out they became banned from the country, oops, I mean state.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Menelly View Post
    Its funny how those drywood like the coastal regions. They never seem to venture inland much. I was always kind of curious about that no matter what I heard over the years or had been tested on I was still always wondering why the coastal areas. a few hours north to DFW and you would be hard pressed to find those little buggers. Florida was the same way. Up and down the coast but not much inland.

    Scott

    They actually still let you enter Texas since you came here and then moved. I thought once one settled in Texas and then moved out they became banned from the country, oops, I mean state.
    Actually a native Texan.... We moved to CA when I was only a few months old, then to VA, and then back to TX about 15 years later! Dad worked for the government so we moved when the orders came.

    When my daughter was born I actually had about 2 lbs of TX dirt sitting under her bassinet in the nursery in Mississippi! Folks just had a little difficulty understanding.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Ron
    I'm late to the party, but I see problems with the flashing and deck drain scuppers? Looks like a real "low-bidder" job unfortunately that's what most HOA managers seek. Of course there's always a little left in the contract for a KB. (kick-back)

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry McCarthy View Post
    Ron
    I'm late to the party, but I see problems with the flashing and deck drain scuppers? Looks like a real "low-bidder" job unfortunately that's what most HOA managers seek. Of course there's always a little left in the contract for a KB. (kick-back)
    Hey Jerry they did get there act together and fix the complete balcony system all new.

    Thanks

    Ron


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    Default Re: Termites and a new court case

    Probably because somebody who knew what was right appeared on the job. (you) Unfortunately that never happens near enough.

    Jerry McCarthy
    Building Code/ Construction Consultant

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