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  1. #1
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    Default Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    In an attic yesterday, 125 degrees in there, but could not help but get a chuckle when I saw this. See photos.

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  2. #2
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene South View Post
    In an attic yesterday, 125 degrees in there, but could not help but get a chuckle when I saw this. See photos.
    GS: Let me guess: garage attic? At least the carpenter tried . . .


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Maybe a note to the A/C guy that hacked out the last brace to make his unit fit?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    All the braces were intact. My guess is the carpenter had some past previous experience and he was writing a note for the next guy to come into the attic with a saw.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    In Houston, it would have been in Spanish. I really need to learn to speak another language.


  6. #6
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by imported_John Smith View Post
    In Houston, it would have been in Spanish. I really need to learn to speak another language.
    So what's the Spanish word for "purlin"? Or did they give up and just call it a brace like we did in anglo?


  8. #8
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
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    Talking Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Yea they're there to provide a place to install a sorry-looking toenails-in-withdrawal connection. How else you gonna hold up 300# of air conditioner? IMO those metal straps should connect to the truss top chord not the brace...or is that a rafter?


  9. #9
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Truss Guy View Post
    Yea they're there to provide a place to install a sorry-looking toenails-in-withdrawal connection. How else you gonna hold up 300# of air conditioner? IMO those metal straps should connect to the truss top chord not the brace...or is that a rafter?
    MTG: There is nothing in the code that supports the idea of hanging mechanical equipment from roof framing members. To the contrary, it is prohibited, though everyone does it.


  10. #10
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    So what's the Spanish word for "purlin"? Or did they give up and just call it a brace like we did in anglo?
    JK: Ejión


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    MTG: There is nothing in the code that supports the idea of hanging mechanical equipment from roof framing members. To the contrary, it is prohibited,

    Aaron,

    Do you have the code on that?

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    ADM, to my knowledge, there is nothing in the code that prohibits hanging equipment from the rafters, as long as the rafters can support the load:

    "R301.4 Dead load.
    The actual weights of materials and construction shall be used for determining dead load with consideration for the dead load of fixed service equipment."

    Usually, rafters for residential construction are not designed with a concentrated dead load in mind, but it's not probibited.

    For trusses, truss design drawings usually specify locations and amounts of concentrated dead loads assumed in the design of the truss.




  13. #13
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Frederickson View Post
    ADM, to my knowledge, there is nothing in the code that prohibits hanging equipment from the rafters, as long as the rafters can support the load:


    "R301.4 Dead load.
    The actual weights of materials and construction shall be used for determining dead load with consideration for the dead load of fixed service equipment."

    Usually, rafters for residential construction are not designed with a concentrated dead load in mind, but it's not probibited.

    For trusses, truss design drawings usually specify locations and amounts of concentrated dead loads assumed in the design of the truss.



    SF: Good man, beat me to the punch.




  14. #14
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Truss Guy View Post
    Yea they're there to provide a place to install a sorry-looking toenails-in-withdrawal connection. How else you gonna hold up 300# of air conditioner? IMO those metal straps should connect to the truss top chord not the brace...or is that a rafter?
    Mike, what are you seeing in the attics, coal fired boilers? Most gas furnaces are 70-80 lbs. and the indoor coil & cabinet are another maybe 30 lbs.

    If the truss members can't support 160 lbs. I better stop going in attics!


  15. #15
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Mike, what are you seeing in the attics, coal fired boilers? Most gas furnaces are 70-80 lbs. and the indoor coil & cabinet are another maybe 30 lbs.

    If the truss members can't support 160 lbs. I better stop going in attics!
    VH: It's not that they won't support the occasional live load, it's that they are not specifically designed to support a concentrated live load.

    I write them up. They don't move them. It's all the same to me. Mine sit atop the ceiling joists over load-bearing walls on isolation brackets.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    MTG: There is nothing in the code that supports the idea of hanging mechanical equipment from roof framing members. To the contrary, it is prohibited,
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Frederickson View Post
    ADM, to my knowledge, there is nothing in the code that prohibits hanging equipment from the rafters, as long as the rafters can support the load:


    "R301.4 Dead load.
    The actual weights of materials and construction shall be used for determining dead load with consideration for the dead load of fixed service equipment."

    Usually, rafters for residential construction are not designed with a concentrated dead load in mind, but it's not probibited.

    For trusses, truss design drawings usually specify locations and amounts of concentrated dead loads assumed in the design of the truss.



    Quote Originally Posted by A.D. Miller View Post
    SF: Good man, beat me to the punch.
    Aaron,



    Precisely what I wanted someone else (other than me, preferably you, though) to post as it does not do as you said. Which was the reason I put the there, hoping you would think about it and make the changes.

    You said "There is nothing in the code that supports the idea of hanging mechanical equipment from roof framing members. To the contrary, it is prohibited," and in fact there is code which supports it and it is not prohibited.


    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
    www.AskCodeMan.com

  17. #17
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    Aaron,



    Precisely what I wanted someone else (other than me, preferably you, though) to post as it does not do as you said. Which was the reason I put the there, hoping you would think about it and make the changes.

    You said "There is nothing in the code that supports the idea of hanging mechanical equipment from roof framing members. To the contrary, it is prohibited," and in fact there is code which supports it and it is not prohibited.
    [/left]
    JP: Maybe I should be clearer. Sorry. I have had a madhouse here this morning dealing with computer techs replacing broken-down Chinese electronic crap, attorneys calling with self-answering questions, phone calls to Directv to retrieve my HD receiption, chain saws groaning overhead from the tree trimmers, the usual Monday morning paperwork, 12 calls for inspections and trying to keep up with the wisenheimers on this forum. Arghh!

    The code does state that the dead load is to be considered in member sizing. Does this mean to you that you can then hang any "fixed mechanical equipment" from any rafters and trusses? Or does it mean that the design professional is responsible for specifying where the particular equipment is to be mounted and making allowances in his framing accordingly?


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    JP: I just looked at that last post and hope it makes sense. As I was typing it I was trying to explain to an Indian electrical engineer why the 20" deep hole left in the middle of his newly-poured slab would require an independent strutural engineer to make the repair specifications.

    Arghh, the effing chain saws are about to do me in . . .!!!

    Last edited by A.D. Miller; 08-10-2009 at 11:10 AM.

  19. #19
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Mike, what are you seeing in the attics, coal fired boilers? Most gas furnaces are 70-80 lbs. and the indoor coil & cabinet are another maybe 30 lbs.

    If the truss members can't support 160 lbs. I better stop going in attics!

    I'm used to having conservative numbers thrown into the truss designs. Usually one or two 150# loads per truss that include a sort of maximum load usually seen. In many cases the specific AC unit weights are not called out in the plans. The load amount is not the real issue I have with it. The point is that connection does not meet the requirements of a "toenail". Look how that thing is nailed. Two nails driven at an angle too close to the edge. It's not driven at a 60 degree angle and if it were, the center of the nail would be in air. You can even see the splits on the edge of the brace. It just does not even look adequate to support the 160# load you want to use.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Truss Guy View Post
    I'm used to having conservative numbers thrown into the truss designs. Usually one or two 150# loads per truss that include a sort of maximum load usually seen. In many cases the specific AC unit weights are not called out in the plans. The load amount is not the real issue I have with it. The point is that connection does not meet the requirements of a "toenail". Look how that thing is nailed. Two nails driven at an angle too close to the edge. It's not driven at a 60 degree angle and if it were, the center of the nail would be in air. You can even see the splits on the edge of the brace. It just does not even look adequate to support the 160# load you want to use.
    Not arguing anything you say here, just pointing out the fact that HVAC found in the attics are not as heavy as many think.


  21. #21
    Mike Truss Guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern Heiler View Post
    Not arguing anything you say here, just pointing out the fact that HVAC found in the attics are not as heavy as many think.
    Here in Las Vegas they usually include a gas furnace, the AC heat exchanger, a motherboard/control circuit, fans, a condensate pan, condensate piping, coolant lines, steel support rods, steel bars, and bunch of ducts. Some of the assemblies are 10' long or more and it's common for there to be two in an attic. There is also often a platform made from 2x6's and covered in 3/4 OSB usually supported on the bottom, but not always.


  22. #22
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Borrowing thread....had so much fun down in the city today, I just have to keep sharing.

    You see em' as I found em'.... both units were "operational".

    (Later).... What the heck, a few more...

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  23. #23
    A.D. Miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a chuckle when I saw this....

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Thomas View Post
    Borrowing thread....had so much fun down in the city today, I just have to keep sharing.

    You see em' as I found em'.... both units were "operational".

    (Later).... What the heck, a few more...
    MT: Looks like Chicago is closer to Philadelphia than I suspected.


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