Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Yufei Shi's Avatar
    Yufei Shi Guest

    Default Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Hi All,

    I bought a new 2 story house less than two years ago. The house is located in Ottawa, Canada. I have few steel I beam and post related questions and would like to get your opinion.

    1) (Please see photo 1) The bottom plate of a steel I-beam (in the middle of the house) was cut in half in depth(full depth of the I beam) in the area on top of one of a heavy duty post (look above the left and right edge of the steel post).

    My understanding is that the steel I-beam can lose half of its bearing strength because of it.

    Is this an issue?

    2) (Please see photos 2 and 3, photo taken before insulation was added) Both steel posts supporting the back of the house are just nailed to the foundation wall, and are not encased in a cement footing. The bottom plate of the steel post (in photo 2) sitting on another steel plate (seems to be an uneven surface and it is only nailed to the foundation wall with just 1 nail, the other 2 nails are not on the plate).
    I have a friend who bought a house with the exact same model/builder and his posts are encased in cement.

    We are living in an earthquake zone (up to Richter scale of 6) and I am worried about this post connection to foundation wall being weak.

    Is this an issue?

    3) (Please see photo 4) All the steel I-beam and post are heavily rusted and with mud.
    Will the rust reduce the strength of the steel I beams and posts? Will the rust continue to develop overtime to cause further deteriation?

    4) (Please see photo 5) We have 7 steel posts in the basement (5 of them are of telescope type). But it looks like telescope posts are allowed to use as permanent posts in Canada. The top plate of all telescope steel posts are attached to the I-beam by welding, not by bolts.
    In some cases, the welding is done at the 4 corners of the plate (only touching the plate by a little bit). Is this a common practice?
    Is this an issue?

    Thanks for your reply in advance.

    Yufei

    Similar Threads:
    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images
    Inspection Referral SOC

  2. #2
    Michael Garrity's Avatar
    Michael Garrity Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    You need help with your house.You need someone to come in and give you advice and if you house is only 2 years old, contact a lawyer.Looking at your 2 posts,you house does not look good but there is a remedy for everything.Good luck


  3. #3
    Yufei Shi's Avatar
    Yufei Shi Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Garrity View Post
    You need help with your house.You need someone to come in and give you advice and if you house is only 2 years old, contact a lawyer.Looking at your 2 posts,you house does not look good but there is a remedy for everything.Good luck
    Thanks Michael,

    Could you please elaborate more on the specifics of the issues so that it can help me understand the scope and severity of the issues?

    I tried to get opinions from the inspectors I hired but all they told me was that there is NO issue.

    I will bring the issues to the city and a lawyer but I need some help to understand the issues first.

    Thanks,

    Yufei


  4. #4
    Michael Garrity's Avatar
    Michael Garrity Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    The steel posts should be anchored to the foundation with bolts not nails.The screw jack should be replace with a one piece column.From your other post the framing looks bad.I think my mother in law could have done better job and it looks like you might have some moisture problems.Photographs don't tell the whole story so we can only guess.Call a builder or engineer and then maybe a lawyer


  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Adjustable steel columns shall confirm to CAN/CGSB-7.2-M "Adjustable Metal Columns" Ontario Building Code 9.17.3.4.

    The mud is no problem and it is not uncommon to see some rust on beams, but your photo show more than normal. It would be advantageous to paint it if you like.


  6. #6
    Yufei Shi's Avatar
    Yufei Shi Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Garrity View Post
    The steel posts should be anchored to the foundation with bolts not nails.The screw jack should be replace with a one piece column.From your other post the framing looks bad.I think my mother in law could have done better job and it looks like you might have some moisture problems.Photographs don't tell the whole story so we can only guess.Call a builder or engineer and then maybe a lawyer
    Thanks Michael,

    Regarding the screw jack (telescope post), I was told it is allowed to use as a permanent post in CANADA if the telescope post conforms to
    CAN/CGSB-7.2-94 standard. The telescope post used in my house has a label saying it conforms to that standard.
    http://irc.web-p.cisti.nrc.ca/ccmc/r...%2000.02_e.pdf
    http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/ccmc/registry/pdf/11170_e.pdf
    Adjustable Steel Columns
    I have seen the same telescope steel posts used in other houses.

    I control the humidity levels in my house by running air conditioner and dehumdifer in the summer. Humidity level in the basement is below 60 in the summer and below 45 in the winter (with the heating on). The steel I-beam and post were that rusty the day I moved in.

    Again, I have seen rusty steel I steam and posts in other houses that are about 2 year old. Mine I beam and posts are slightly more rusty than others.

    The post secured to the foundation wall using a single cement nail does not seem to be right as you commented. By the way, the orientation of the top plate of the steel post is the opposite. The width of plate does not support the width of the I beam above but it is centered.

    My inspectors said the post will not move because the load of the house is on it. And the cement nail will prevent the post from jump during an earthquake. And since the top plate of the steel post is centered to the I beam above, the orientation does not matter.

    Also my inspectors told me to ignore the rusty I beam and post saying they will last longer than my life (not exact word but the meaning is the same).

    What about issue 1) and 4) (post to I beam connection welding but no bolts)? I was told welding is stronger than bolts by my inspectors and it is the same in the other houses by the same builder.

    Thanks a lot for your advice and time.

    Yufei


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    The column can be secured to the beam either by a weld or by nut and bolt attachment. The steel plate under beam is okay the bearing of the plate does not have to be the full width of a steel beam. 9.17.3.2. - 4"x4" steel plate by 1/4" thick ... and where the column supports a wooden beam, the top plate shall extend across the full width of the beam.

    Don't worry about the rust.

    Your column is acceptable given the label concurs with CAN/CGSB.


  8. #8
    Yufei Shi's Avatar
    Yufei Shi Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Wand View Post
    The column can be secured to the beam either by a weld or by nut and bolt attachment. The steel plate under beam is okay the bearing of the plate does not have to be the full width of a steel beam. 9.17.3.2. - 4"x4" steel plate by 1/4" thick ... and where the column supports a wooden beam, the top plate shall extend across the full width of the beam.

    Don't worry about the rust.

    Your column is acceptable given the label concurs with CAN/CGSB.
    Thanks Raymond,

    Do you have comments on issue #1 and #2? Not sure why the bottom flange of the steel I beam was cut and is a single concrete nail enough to secure the steel post to the foundation wall?

    Thanks again for your reply.

    Yufei


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    I am not sure item one is a problem. From the photo I only see what appear to be minor notches.

    As to item 2 that steel shim should be placed properly under the column as the column was likely too short, thus the shim. The impact nailing of the bottom plate of the column should be fastened with lag bolts.


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC, Canada
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    You seem to have an interesting situation.
    First off you have very bad workmanship on whoever did the work.
    Secondly, get the opinion of a structural engineer.

    I am seeing many issues here

    1 - column does not appear to be properly supported and installed.
    2- column base should be fastened using lag bolts or anchor bolts.
    3 - you may have a bigger structural issue than what we are seeing.
    4- You may have some issues with the ground beneath the house - how much movement are u getting in spring and fall?
    5- Any water issues in the basement?
    6- are the bases beneath the column on a proper frost type pad?


    I could go on.

    I am in montreal - if u wish to send me a report /i would gladly look at it.

    contact me if u like


  11. #11
    Ron Bibler's Avatar
    Ron Bibler Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Can you go back under the home and take some better photos of the sub-structure. take one of an area and then back up from the area and take another shot to give a full view of the areal. this will help us.

    You should have Ray or Joe inspect your home. this is the only way you going to get the awnser you need.

    From what I can see you have some issue that should be inspected. and if you have these items I would bet you have a lot more issue with this home.

    Best

    Ron


  12. #12
    Yufei Shi's Avatar
    Yufei Shi Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Laurieri View Post
    3 - you may have a bigger structural issue than what we are seeing.
    Thanks Joe. I hope this is not the bigger structual issue you are refering to. At the main floor, two steel I beams are supported by 2x4 wood columns. There are no welding (can not do that with 2x4 wood
    columns) and no bolts. I was told it is OK since the floor joists are attached to the I beam and the I beam has no place to move.
    Please see photo main_floor_[1 to 4]

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Laurieri View Post
    4- You may have some issues with the ground beneath the house - how much movement are u getting in spring and fall?
    I do not feel any movement. I do hear some sound from the roof in the 2nd floor master bedroom from time to time. There are few hairline drywall cracks around the corner of exterior and internal walls and on internal non load-bearing wood post corner taping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Laurieri View Post
    5- Any water issues in the basement?
    Basement floor is dry. There is efflorescence at the bottom of eastern and western foundation walls. I was told those long strips (about 1cm wide and few meters long, wavy and not all continuous) white powder are results of foundation walls getting dried.
    We have many heavy rains in Ottawa in the past two years. The only noticable of water penatration is a water leak from above the basement floor joist level (that is, above foundation level) below a window. I found that the masonry between the bricks outside of the windows has cracks and small holes. I filled the cracks and holes and I do not see the water penatration again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Laurieri View Post
    6- are the bases beneath the column on a proper frost type pad?
    Please take a look photo "basement_4_west_on_right.JPG".
    Look at the low left corner, the far end shows a corner of the bay window where the steel column is located.

    The second photo "steel_post_top_plate" shows the top plate connection to the I beam above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Laurieri View Post
    I could go on.

    I am in montreal - if u wish to send me a report /i would gladly look at it.
    contact me if u like
    [/quote]
    Thank you for your help. I can send you a set of photos I took before the drywall was up. I will try to contact you by email first. Then we can talk over the phone. I can be reached by cell at 613-219-0141.

    Yufei

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  13. #13
    Yufei Shi's Avatar
    Yufei Shi Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    Can you go back under the home and take some better photos of the sub-structure. take one of an area and then back up from the area and take another shot to give a full view of the areal. this will help us.
    Thanks Ron, please see the photos basement1 to 4. Please take a look photo "basement_4_west_on_right.JPG". Look at the low left corner, the far end shows a corner of the bay window where the steel column is located.

    The second photo "steel_post_top_plate" shows the top plate connection to the I beam above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Bibler View Post
    You should have Ray or Joe inspect your home. this is the only way you going to get the awnser you need.
    Thanks. I will talk to Ray and Joe to see what can be arranged since they are pretty far away from Ottawa (2.5 to 5 hours by car).

    Thanks,

    Yufei

    ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images ***IMPORTANT*** You Need To Register To View Images

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Caledon, Ontario
    Posts
    5,005

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Yufei

    Please call Joe as I am just northwest of Toronto.

    As to the wood column under the steel beam

    9.17.4.1. OBC
    Wood Columns
    (1) The width or diameter of a wood column shall not be not less than the width of the supported member.

    (2) Except as provided in Article 9.35.4.2.,(car ports and garage) columns shall be not less than 184 mm (71/4 in) for round columns and 140mm (5 1/2"x5 1/2") for retangular columns, unless calculations are provided to show lesser sizes are adequate.

    I also might add the would column should have 6 mill or better plastic sheet under the base so as water is not wicked up the wood from the concrete floor.


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC, Canada
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    I will give u a call this weekend

    Something is wrong there for sure

    Do not like the way the beam is supported as well as the way th posts are installed for starters.


  16. #16
    Yufei Shi's Avatar
    Yufei Shi Guest

    Default Re: Steel I beam and telescope post related questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Laurieri View Post
    I will give u a call this weekend

    Something is wrong there for sure

    Do not like the way the beam is supported as well as the way th posts are installed for starters.
    Thanks Joe, really appreciate it. will wait for your call.

    Yufei


Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •