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  1. #1
    Bob Hunt's Avatar
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    Default Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Got called by my neighbor today. We live in a town with NO Building Code Enforcement. She has hired a roofer to reroof her house and install a porch over her concrete patio. The roofer has had three people working for two weeks and has installed about 30 feet of what is in the photo (certainly do not want to call it roof framing) as the roof extension to the outer edges of the patio. He says that this is all that is required for a proper installation and all he needs to do is to shorten the post.

    The number of serious deficiencies in the one picture is staggering but whart I cannot find in the IRC is a statement that any dimensional framing members are to be installed vertically.

    She is probably going to fire the guy tomorrow. I have been asked to draw up a list of deficiencies and need to find the reference to vertical installation.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hunt View Post
    I cannot find in the IRC is a statement that any dimensional framing members are to be installed vertically.
    Bob,

    Look in the span tables.

    Where is says 2x6 ... that means nominal 2" WIDE by nominal 6" DEPTH ... ... and he installed 6x2 rafters ... 6" WIDE by 2" DEPTH ... ... which I doubt he will find in the tables.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  3. #3
    Michael Garrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    I am going to guess that if you look in the index of the IRC,look up wood and from there you will be able to locate tables where it will tell you how far you can span with a particular size of lumber.Don't forget the live roof load.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    I especially like how the gutters were left in place. Just in case there were a leak


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Bob,

    Here is an IRC code reference. (underlining and bold are mine)
    - R802.2 Design and construction. The framing details required in Section R802 apply to roofs having a minimum slope of three units vertical in 12 units horizontal (25-percent slope) or greater. Roof-ceilings shall be designed and constructed in accordance with the provisions of this chapter and Figures R606.11(1), R606.11(2) and R606.11(3) or in accordance with AFPA/NDS. Components of roof-ceilings shall be fastened in accordance with Table R602.3(1).

    Those referenced figures show the framing installed 2x6, not 6x2, as does the AFPA/NDS.


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  6. #6
    Bob Hunt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Thanks Jerry. Maybe we could get the IRC to include one simple sentence in the next revision to keep it as unconfusing as possible for these types of people.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Hunt View Post
    Maybe we could get the IRC to include one simple sentence in the next revision to keep it as unconfusing as possible for these types of people.
    If those types of people are confused, I do not believe there is ANY help for them.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    What makes you think these guys can read, much less that they would read instructions or a code book?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  9. #9

    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    We should poll contractors to find out just how many have ever read a code book, let alone know what one looks like......


  10. #10
    Michael Schirmer's Avatar
    Michael Schirmer Guest

    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Rafter laid flat? My 8 year old son did that on his treehouse!


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Luttrall View Post
    What makes you think these guys can read, much less that they would read instructions or a code book?
    Maybe if there was a version in Spanish?


  12. #12
    Ben Christianson's Avatar
    Ben Christianson Guest

    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    If you don't find it in any code per se, you'll certainly find it in load distribution tables for dimensional lumber and in any good building construction book.

    The orientation of the lumber is based on your local factors to include live and dead loads.

    As for the vertical supports, what do they propose for columns? Something more substantial than in the pictures?

    How do they have the plate attached to the home?

    Ben


  13. #13
    Mitchell Toelle's Avatar
    Mitchell Toelle Guest

    Talking Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Christianson View Post
    If you don't find it in any code per se, you'll certainly find it in load distribution tables for dimensional lumber and in any good building construction book.

    How do they have the plate attached to the home?

    Ben
    As roofers they most certainly nailed it right through the roof covering. We all know that roofers work never leaks.


  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    The good news is there are not too many nails and most of the material is salvageable.


  15. #15
    Bob Hunt's Avatar
    Bob Hunt Guest

    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Well, she fired him. He is currently removing the screws that held the "rafters" to the roof. In conversation with him this morning he did say that "Of course this is not the permanent beam. I am going to screw another 2x6 to this one."

    It only deteriorated from there.

    As to the Spanish language code book and Spanish speaking contractors, in this area some of the better contractors are of Mexican descent. The clown that perptrated this nonsense is a good old all-American boy who can even conjugate his verbs. He is only concerned with the happiness of his customers; or so he says, but certainly not with their safety.


  16. #16
    Lynn McCameron's Avatar
    Lynn McCameron Guest

    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    I really have to say. After reading everyone's posts I had to go to the emergency room to get stitches for all the cracked ribs from laughing. The nail part and salvage was the boom.


    If you can't tear it down and you can't blow it up then plow it over.
    Lynn


  17. #17
    James Foy's Avatar
    James Foy Guest

    Default Re: Where does it say Vertical Installation

    Y'all don' unnerstand. That thar particulah placement, allows for a springier roof fer jumpin' to the pool, crick, or inta yer pick-me-up bed.



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