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  1. #1
    Jon mackay's Avatar
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    Default Driveway up against foundation wall

    Is there any information on installing driveways directly against a foundation wall?
    Can this cause foundation cracking?

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    .
    Is there any information on installing driveways directly against a foundation wall?
    Can this cause foundation cracking?
    .
    ......
    .
    How to recognize building site factors causing foundation cracking, foundation bowing, foundation settlement, foundation leaning, foundation movement - the Foundation Crack Bible
    .

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon mackay View Post
    Is there any information on installing driveways directly against a foundation wall?
    Can this cause foundation cracking?
    I'm thinking it's not unusual for commercial buildings to have asphalt up against the perimeter walls like that, but it's not usually done that way in residential. Would we rather see a concrete sidewalk there? I don't know.


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    I'm just happy to see them slope it the right way....

    As for causing problems I don't think it's a big deal. Being separate installations there is really minimal impact from one to another. Similar to a front porch... how many times have we seen them settle and pull away from the house without having any effect on the house?


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    How can one maintain uniform moisture control around a foundation when a driveway as such or concrete is poured against the foundation?

    I've seen many homes over the years where driveways or even patio's that have been poured along the rear walls of the structure and then have foundation problems such as movement which has occured along these same walls.

    Every SE's report I've ever seen has consistantly had wording about maintaining "uniform" moisture around the perimeter of the foundation.

    rick


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Asphalt as shown in the photo is quite common at least in my area.


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    The roller used to compress the asphalt could cause enough pressure to crack the foundation.

    Also, the asphalt can work just like vinyl weed barriers against the foundation. Trapping heat and moisture in the ground below it resulting in water problems inside that wall.

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Yes, concrete slabs against basement walls can cause foundation cracks and subsequent leaks in basement,yes. Can-could also bow a basement wall inward or displace some blocks,bricks walls.

    Cracks can occur when equipment is being used to rip out old drive.Sometimes equipment operator hits wall trying to lift or pull out some slabs,could cause cracks.

    Using heavier equipment near a basement wall can cause cracks etc due to the added weight of the equipment that pushes down on the soil which could cause lateral-horizontal movement AGAINST a wall.

    Vibrations can cause cracks etc.

    Like THIS.....
    Ottawa construction company T.K.S. Holdings pleads guilty in building collapse – Daily Commercial News
    ...workers were using motorized construction equipment to underpin walls in the buildings basement when a section of the basement wall rotated and collapsed.
    A Ministry of Labour investigation revealed that underpinning was being done against the advice of a soils engineer.....the collapse was CAUSED by the LOAD and VIBRATION of the equipment being used, COMBINED with bad soil conditions due to recent rain.

    Here,part of the cause of crack was a 8-12" thick slab at back wall up against basement wall
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    No not a Vila fan at all but this article is quite good,he didn`t write it.
    Why Foundations Fail - Foundation, Basement, Foundation & Crawlspace
    Several good points,i`ll get to the last...Careful On The Construction Site
    When there`s a heavy load on the ground next to a foundation,some of the PRESSURE is TRANSFERRED to the WALL. During construction,bulldozers and trucks that come near a basement wall can add enough surcharge pressure to DAMAGE the wall. A new building being built near an existing basement can also increase the UNDERGROUND PRESSURE and damage the existing foundation.Even parked cars can cause trouble....

    Then we need to take into consideration a combination of probable CAUSES for cracks in basement walls,bowed walls and subsequent leaks/seepage in basement.Sometimes it`ll be clay and concrete slab(s) or clay and underground roots etc
    Picasa Web Albums - Mark - 5045Kingshill
    First several photos.........Driveside,some slabs have sunk,cracked.
    Scroll down to last handful of photos,basement walls

    Last edited by John Bubber; 02-23-2010 at 02:16 AM.

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall



    I`m not saying there isn`t any useful information there BUT........
    Evaluation and repair of cracked foundation walls - by John F Mann - Page 3 - Helium
    Scroll down to, MISLEADING AND INCORRECT ONLINE INFORMATION
    ...Inspectapedia website
    5 or 6 paragraphs.....some claims are confusing and misleading....one major source of cracks is completely ignored.....diagram included with 'Repair Methods for Bulged Foundation Walls' is grossly incorrect,etc.

    I`ve read quite a bit from Inspectapedia and what i`ve read so far, i agree there ARE quite a few incompetent claims.

    ASK THE BUILDER
    an example of misleading and incorrect information......

    again,i`ve read quite a bit from T Carter...some good,some ok and some of his claims regarding basement waterproofing/french drains are way off.

    30 years of honest-competent hands on work has proved to us that what Mr Mann points out in article is right on the money.J McEwen formerly EOF Foundations in Canada also knows,Capizzo Const here in MI is one of a few others who has been out here for decades w/no complaints and has seen alot of the incompetence,myths etc.Believe what ya`s like.


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    J Mann also understands things like installing a RAISED PATIO can-could cause cracks etc in basement walls,sure can
    Planning for a raised patio - by John F Mann - Page 2 - Helium

    ...many contractors that install patios (and driveways etc) do not understand the effect of a new raised patio on the adjacent foundation wall.

    4th para...even what may be considered relatively small increases in backfill can cause large increases in lateral pressure against the wall.
    Additional weight (of anything) placed on top of soil backfill causes additional lateral pressure against the foundation wall.

    U S Army Corps of Engineers
    US Army Corps of Engineers, Buffalo District
    1. Lateral pressure CAUSING typical 45 degree stair-step crack...
    2. Lateral pressure causing vertical mid-span cracks in basement wall
    3. Lateral pressure causing top of basement wall to bow inward 9 inches (pilasters failed to brace wall)

    And so part of what a few of us been trying to inform about is stuff like some HI`s who tell homeowners to go ahead and raise their grade w/clay or some tell homeowners to pour new driveway,patio slabs ATOP of existing slabs.This could cause problems,cracks etc for homeowners. And if someone has a leaky basement then telling them to add soil,pour more concrete etc has NOT competently identified-diagnosed their actual problem (where water is actually entering), and this stuff doesn`t fix,repair,waterproof,snake whatever their problem is.

    Last edited by John Bubber; 02-23-2010 at 12:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    John
    These post were thought out and written much better.
    You read the OP, gave your opinion, and showed supporting evidence to support your opinion.
    Much better.
    Thanks

    ' correct a wise man and you gain a friend... correct a fool and he'll bloody your nose'.

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    I found this link off one the links in John's last post interesting - I was not aware of "flowable fill":

    http://www.icpi.org/myproject/07%20M...or%20Focus.pdf

    Also, the link to "U S Army Corps of Engineers" is broken.

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    For anyone who might want to reference it, I grabbed the relevant portion of that Mann article as a .pdf in case it disappears from the net:

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    my bad,Corps link has been corrected above.

    and here again,photos
    US Army Corps of Engineers, Buffalo District


    here is full 222 page Army Corps Study, Amherst NY
    http://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/Amhers...st-2005-01.pdf


    Fairfax County VA, Basement Wall Damage,scroll down a lil
    Overcoming Problems with Marine Clays*- Fairfax County, Virginia
    Quite a few inside system waterdiverting companies don`t 'get' this and-or don`t care because they don`t want to hand dig and make much more money installing those inside systems with wall anchors or carbon straps.
    Most have never done what is recommended here and that IS incompetence,misrepresentation etc.

    Depending on the extent of damage,foundation walls may need to be replaced while others can be repaired.To prevent future damage,the clay MUST BE removed and replaced with sandy,gravelly soils....and the wall waterproofed on the outside.

    When a block,brick wall is bowed in there will be exterior cracks and cracked parging. Impossible to repair these on the inside and wall anchors etc do not 'remove' clay or possible underground roots etc that can also crack,bow,damage walls.

    D Yoder Builders understands the importance of backfilling with all gravel
    6th para Dwight Yoder Builders

    Pretty good here on Page 3
    http://www.plickandassociates.com/newsletters/Mar06.pdf
    No, doesn`t cover other causes etc.

    Basement walls are subject to lateral pressure from the weight of the soil piled against the exterior.Moisture in the soil increases the weight acting upon the wall.....

    One key point in 2nd last para,and why its best for the basement wall and the homeowner and the next-homeowner to have the work done outside,not inside.....'the mortar joints are WEAKER than the masonry blocks'.

    So not only should one remove clay off the exterior of wall (Fairfax etc) and any other possible cause but its best to waterproof those exterior cracks and cracked parging to STOP water from entering the blocks and passing through already-weakened-joints.Think of bricks and mortar joints above grade that are cracked,deteriorated.What do we do? One thing we do is tuckpoint all deteriorated joints.

    Keep posting different links,photos etc on lateral soil pressure,expansive soils etc because it causes ALOT of damage....more than many are aware.
    Definition and Characteristics
    Scroll down to, Severity of Problem.
    Each year,shrinking or swelling inflict...billions (2004 article) in damages to houses,buildings.....more than twice the damage from floods,hurricanes,tornadoes and earthquakes...

    Some think rubber membranes and damproofing on exterior foundation walls are enough to keep water out,see first 4 photos please.
    Hydro Static Grout Injection Teniques and Job Site Photos
    See pics 3,4? Pretty incompetent!


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    If that's an unreinforced block foundation, I'd be concerned about the weight of vehicles parked in the driveway immediately abutting the foundation.


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    The concern was weight of vehicles and the unknown impact of having the driveway installed. This house was built in the 20s so foundation drainage is going to be slim to none.
    I was looking to see if there was any specific information on this type of driveway install so that I can back up any info in my report.

    I have a house that has this situation and the block wall is bowing at the exact location that the driveway meets it.


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Paved driveways against foundations is very common up here, with the exception they are concrete and not block.
    I don't see an issue with that at all.
    Traffic weight is actually distributed on a paved driveway whereas on a stone driveway, you would have more impact and pressures levied on to the wall in conjunction with saturated ground.
    Paved driveways help shed water away from the structure.


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Cyr View Post
    Paved driveways against foundations is very common up here, with the exception they are concrete and not block.
    Concrete vs. block is a BIG difference. I have seen many block walls fail...and very often the failure is sudden. Usually, the houses are 50+ years old, simply because that's when they stopped using block around here. Many times, they fail when there has been no aparent change in the loads. They fail because of a build up of stresses over the years, from saturated soil, from frost action, etc., so any change to the loads, such as creating a parking area where there was none, is cause for some concern. If there always was a parking area there, then paving it probably won't do any more harm (other than the stresses caused by the construction equipment), and will provide some drainage away from the foundation (as long as it's sloped away from the foundation).
    You say that the foundation was bowed. Doe it look like newer damage? If it is bowed, it has already failed and is in danger of collapse.


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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Block basement wall
    HP Photosmart Share
    The cracks etc you see here can OFTEN exist on drive-side,we`ve seen this throughout 30 years. One might not know they exist on a drive-side or on any wall when the cracks don`t extend UP above the driveway or up above the grade,soil.Some do and some don`t.

    1. Corner crack,this crack goes down and then splits. <--See photos 5,6.
    It goes around the corner onto back wall.Openings around windows must be sealed as well.

    2. Vertical crack.It`s about 10-12' away from that corner crack.
    Also see gap just under window ledge,water & insects easily enter here
    as well.
    NOTE- The corner crack is not visible on inside,you won`t see any crack.
    The vertical is visible.Was patched and painted over so sometimes some cracks aren`t easily observed on the inside.And of course if basement is finished one won`t see any cracks,rod holes etc.

    3,4. Small lil roots can grow into cracks and then widen a crack.
    Larger underground roots can push,lean,grow against-along basement
    walls,can cause crack and subsequent leak,can crack the exterior
    parging and cause subsequent leak etc.

    11,12. Done,coming home Momma,got milk?


    This homeowner like most had other estimates,all were from inside system companies.All companies told homeowner they had a supposed hydrostatic pressure problem under the basement floor that only an inside system would fix,est`s ranged between $7,500 and $11,000.
    The photos show the real story,the actual problems where water first entered, cost $1,700 ish,can`t remember exactly.

    In several snapfish picture sets posted,you can see what can occur on DRIVE SIDES. We recently did a job in Grosse Pointe Woods,block wall,
    drive-side wall.They just bought house,were told no basement leaks etc.

    Not trying to bore anyone! Just trying to show what often happens.

    Drive side wall was painted,Drylok which hid efflorescence and some mold on wall.Seller had NEW DRIVEWAY poured and then caulked along edge of new driveway and house. On first decent rain after sale of house,basement leaks. I`ll post link if anyone wants to see actual problems.Sorry,to see pic`s you`ll have to sign up,i didn`t plan on this,will try and change so ya don`t have to fart around,sign up.Am NO computer wiz.

    Posting this to show some what DOES occur on drive-side basement walls,what exists against many basement walls etc.
    Snapfish: Share:Registration
    See new driveway.See what else was UNDER new driveway?
    See the real-problems on the outside of the basement wall,this IS where water entered and caused some efflorescence,mold,paint peeling.
    2 sets,last several pictures here are of inside wall
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    Then there are these possibilities....
    Whistleblower Blog Archive Second homeowner in Victoria blames cracked foundation, warped house on sewer project
    ...a forensic engineering report....determined that even though many of the cracks were present in the house,"the construction on and along Smithtown Road not only caused the existing cracks to open up more but caused additional damage to this dwelling"

    Come Home Momma/Pretty Things YouTube - PRETTY THINGS - COME HOME MOMMA

    Last edited by John Bubber; 02-24-2010 at 03:42 AM.

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    Don`t shoot me if this doesn`t work

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    continued.........

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    Default Re: Driveway up against foundation wall

    last few what inside wall looked like,efflorescence etc.
    notice left corner etc,NO visible cracks but that doesn`t mean there aren`t exterior cracks etc where water is actually getting in hollow blocks.

    seller either got talked into pouring a new driveway and that the 'pitch' of new drive would keep water out of the basement or maybe assumed this himself.

    what wasn`t done was,competently diagnosing-identifying how,where water actually got in and so spending $7,000 or whatever on a new driveway was NOT what was needed and did not solve anything.Job cost $3,300 ish and solved the actual problems.

    besides the corner,vertical cracks there was also a horizontal crack,just above the footing/top of first block up off footing.Water enters blocks through these cracks as well.No inside system repairs,waterproofs ANY of these cracks nor do they remove clay or underground roots or concrete slabs etc that cause many cracks.

    you cannot relieve,lessen exterior lateral soil pressure,weight etc by installing any inside system or placing carbon fiber straps,wall anchors on inside.

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    Last edited by John Bubber; 02-24-2010 at 05:30 AM.

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