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  1. #1
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    Default Correct term for this

    What is the correct term for this board. Would it be called a ledger. since the joists are not bearing on it, I did not know.

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  2. #2
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    What is the correct term for this board.
    FUBAR?

    I would call it a sill....but that's just me.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    I always called it a bandboard.


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Bombardiere View Post
    What is the correct term for this board. Would it be called a ledger. since the joists are not bearing on it, I did not know.
    Termite food?

    Jim Luttrall
    www.MrInspector.net
    Plano, Texas

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Rim joist, band joist, or rim board/band board? Hard to say not knowing what is behind it. Looks like it is sitting atop a sill plate.


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    I would call it a rim joist.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    I always called it a bandboard.
    Because it does not appear to be carrying any load from above, I would not call it a "joist" as in "rim joist", simply a rim board or band board as its sole purpose appears to be one of providing lateral support to the studs behind it.

    Although, I must confess I thought of "Termite food?" like Jim did. Another term I thought would be correct was "shot", as in "That sucker is shot. It ain't doing no good at all."

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
    Construction Litigation Consultants, LLC ( www.ConstructionLitigationConsultants.com )
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  8. #8

    Default Re: Correct term for this

    How 'bout...... sub- ribbon board wall brace thingy majigger.


  9. #9
    Ted Menelly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Behind that is a sill plate sitting on the concrete. I see it all the time. That board is there to feed the termites and to somewhat stabilize the 2x4s behind it while the floor deck above is framed to it that short stem wall. Instead of running the foundation higher they do it this way to have the siding come all the way down to or close to the soil. The foundation being so high used to (what they thought) killed the looks of the home instead of the lap siding coming down all the way down.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    You nailed it Ted. That is one reason it is wasted is that the siding comes all the way down to grade. Being the house was about 90 years old, it has settled and water has been draining back into the crawl there. It was rotted and had termite damage.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Frank Bombardiere,

    Thank you for further clarifying what you photographed/posted in your first post. I gather you have photographed a foundation cripple wall.

    The "board" is structural (yet deficient in its ability to perform all of its intended functions). It is there to serve several purposes. Its purposes include resisting & bearing/supporting loads/forces.

    The unprotected plumbing in the area of the second photograph are likely contributory sources of the water/condensation/freezing event damages.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    I gather you have photographed a foundation cripple wall.

    H. G.,

    I think it is just plain old fashioned balloon framing where the studs run uncut from the foundation to the roof deck (gable ends) or top plates (even for two story houses) and where fireblocking was not done.

    Looking at that photo and I suspect there is no fireblocking at the floor or anywhere else up the stud cavities.

    One advantage of platform framing over balloon framing is that the stud bays are fireblocked at each platform.

    One advantage of balloon framing over platform framing is that the walls are stronger, there are no hinge joints built in at each platform.

    I know you knew that stuff, but others may not.

    Jerry Peck, Construction / Litigation Consultant
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Peck View Post
    H. G.,

    I think it is just plain old fashioned balloon framing where the studs run uncut from the foundation to the roof deck (gable ends)
    Although that might be the case, or for that matter a hybrid "do what you can with what you have" pre-dust bowl construction;

    I thought what FB offered in the second photo shows interupted not continuous studs beneath a made beam which is bearing a joist above the water pipe(s). The shadows, scale, etc. are somewhat difficult for me to determine. Perhaps it is a single applied ledger board - other visual "clues" I (think I am) seeing led me to conclude otherwise (esp. in the last photo below just above the mesh screened ventillation opening to the crawl).



    That photo and his follow-up post describing the crawl space and exterior topography, in conjunction with his first photo (which appears to show interupted or let in cripple studs below what in the second photo supports a joist above) and first post lead me to arrive at my offered supposition in re: foundation cripple wall.



    In either case the board had/has structural purpose bearing & resisting loads/forces.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    other visual "clues" I (think I am) seeing
    I believe you are seeing correct - on the larger (closer up zoomed view) I can see the far right stud, in the second photo, is twisted in relation to what is above it, so I think you are correct that it is a foundation cripple wall. The photos do not show enough to know whether or not it is balloon framing above that.

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    I don't know if it was balloon framed or not. Did not think to look closer for that. Rarely ever see balloon around here. Some of the rot was likely due to that supply pipe to the exterior hose bib leaking for a while in the past, but there were also drainage issues there as well. Yes I did write up the unprotected plumbing lines and they were also just hanging there with no support under most of that area.

    I had a SE call me to ask where the issues were because the buyers I did the inspection for walked and there was a subsequent inspection by a different buyer by a different inspection co, that did not call this out. The SE had also inspected the home and did not call this out. The listing agent asked them why they did not call it out, so he was calling me to find out where the damage was since he did not see it and the other inspection report did not note it. SE and other inspection co, must not have went back into the crawl far enough I guess. SE did not go into crawl, imagine that

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Frank,

    I have found that most SE's don't even enter the crawlspace. Same situation as yours several years ago where I called out for a SE on a foundation due to numerous termite damaged floor joist and girder beams. SE showed up on July 3rd that year and just walked the perimeter and said everything looked great. Agent calls me and in her whining voice tells me that the SE said he saw no issues. I said tell him to call me.
    He calls me and I asked him if he'd even looked under the home and he said, No, should I?

    Aaron will know exactly as to who I'm talking about too. This SE is known around the Dallas area as being in the pockets of the realtors to make a deal work.

    rick


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Correct term for this

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Hurst View Post
    I have found that most SE's don't even enter the crawlspace.

    When I was inspecting I had a good friend inspector who was also a structural engineer, I am 5'6" and not thin, he is 5'18" and not thin either ... he could basically go almost everywhere I did - "almost" .

    Every time I needed a structural engineer, I would call him, and usually we would go through it together. There were very few things which I had found which would turn out to not be a problem. I was always learning from him as to what, and more importantly why, things were or were not a problem. We did several of his engineering assessment projects together too.

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