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  1. #1
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    Default Exposed Subfloor

    Hi:

    Check out the picture. The logs on this cabin are set on top of the subfloor (look at the upper half of the photo, at the spider web). This can't be right, correct?

    Thanks,
    Joe

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Sorry, can't figure out the perspective to know what I'm looking at. Got a better picture?

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    In this photo, starting from the bottom we have the wood foundation, then the rim joist, then subfloor, then logs. I also attached a whole house pic.

    Thanks,
    Joe

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  4. #4
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    The T&G subfloor should extend to the outside of the sill but should not be exposed. IMO at this point the best way to address it would be to cover it with flashing/trim coil (with a 90 degree bend) and seal between the flashing and the logs.


  5. #5
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Joe,

    I can't see any indication of a building paper, flashings at those transitions. They're also running the skirting down into the soil. It's doesn't appear that they've accounted/planned for wet conditions. This would be the front burner issue for me.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barker View Post
    Joe,

    I can't see any indication of a building paper, flashings at those transitions. They're also running the skirting down into the soil. It's doesn't appear that they've accounted/planned for wet conditions. This would be the front burner issue for me.

    Exactly, it is for me too.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Is that skirting going into the dirt or is that the wood foundation wall?

    Is that house built from a kit? If so, there will be plans showing how the foundation should be done, right?

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    From the looks of the whole house picture, it appears someone has possibly removed a step-down (free standing or attached?) deck and any flashing and applied riser trim transitions along with it. I note an exposure/water line even lower on the plywood below what I presume to be the deck or step down surface on the second close-up picture also.



    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-07-2010 at 08:53 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    From the looks of the whole house picture, it appears someone has possibly removed a step-down (free standing or attached?) deck and any flashing and applied riser trim transitions along with it. I note an exposure/water line even lower on the plywood below what I presume to be the deck or step down surface on the second close-up picture also.

    Good eye HG


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Yes, that's a wood foundation - not skirting.

    The decks weren't built yet. The deck ledgerboard was going to be attached to the OSB wall sheathing I guess (the front wall is regular wood framed).

    Many issues with this dump.


  11. #11
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Arcaro View Post
    Many issues with this dump.
    Dump! That seems to set the tone nicely. Too bad that we have to be diplomatic in our reports and we can't come right out and tell the client what we're really thinking.

    Eric Barker, ACI
    Lake Barrington, IL

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Arcaro View Post
    Yes, that's a wood foundation - not skirting.

    The decks weren't built yet. The deck ledgerboard was going to be attached to the OSB wall sheathing I guess (the front wall is regular wood framed).

    Many issues with this dump.
    NO pictured OSB sheathing, just plywood pictured. Are you referring to an area not previously pictured?

    A free-standing deck wouldn't need a ledger. An attached deck with a ledger board would require connection to FRAMING not just sheathing.

    The weathering pattern, caulk remenants, etc. pictured indicates something has been removed which formerly protected the transition under the threshold and below, now exposed. Perhaps the "water line" beneath on the plywood sheathing indicates a former snow depth accumulation against the unprotected plywood.

    Thanks for updating your profile with location information.


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Appears to be a stalled work-in-progress.

    Question if property ever had qualified for certificate of occupancy and conditon is due to later alterations, or was never completed in first place. Curious if permits active or expired without completion.

    Platform subfloor. I'd like to see some photos from below/inside the "basement".


  14. #14
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    There is a band of OSB just below the french doors, then below that the treated wood foundation.

    Here is a pic of the basement.

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Still not seeing any OSB, even in those latest 2 pictures. I've "blown up" the previous ones as mentioned before. When I "blow up" the wide shot of the sliding doors on the cabin - again I see logs, beam, and plywood, no OSB.

    In the latest two pictures, I see a pinkish foam pad, or insulation board/batt in the cavities adjacent to and behind the yellow spun insulation, with evidence of moisture to the plywood subfloor above. "Basement" photo of studs with kraft lined fiberglass batt exposed kraft, torn, improperly installed and left exposed, no evidence of OSB. Cannot identify those studs as a componant of a wood foundation wall. Lacking visable componants of same, bracing, etc. See apparent slab floor with insulation on top of same no isolation.

    Still no OSB seen in any of the photos. Please point it out to me if it is pictured (perhaps you uploaded wrong picture? or are you saying there is OSB behind the insulation below the subfloor, but not pictured?).














  16. #16

    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    I think you should have flashing and chinking from there up to seal properly, add deck or stairs and also flash that. aso call the log mfg for their advice!


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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Looks more like T&G log siding (could be inside and out on stick frame platform construction) project not true log construction. Note nail heads, shallow depths, and narrow seams at faux ends, and especially gable window detail.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-10-2010 at 11:25 AM.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Looks more like T&G log siding (could be inside and out on stick frame platform construction) project not true log construction. Note nail heads, shallow depths, and narrow seams at faux ends, and especially gable window detail.
    I think we lost Joe. I suspect it was built from a kit, because no one would put that much milling into a one-of-a-kind log home.
    Could that pinkish material in the basement be poured concrete, like Sakrete, poured around the wood foundation studs? That is what I see. That foundation is a sad joke indeed.
    The OSB is the subfloor, just the edges showing, I think.
    This pic is of a similar design by Honest Abe Log Homes. The logs in my pic appear to rest directly on the rim joist of the floor with no floor sheathing exposed.

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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    ...
    Could that pinkish material in the basement be poured concrete, like Sakrete, poured around the wood foundation studs? That is what I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    The OSB is the subfloor, just the edges showing, I think.
    I don't know how you can say/see this. Do you not see the floor/ceiling joists from the upshot in the basement? Do you not see the PLYWOOD subfloor? The Original poster did NOT represent OSB subfloor. He suggested OSB was on a vertical (not horizontal) plane on the exterior just below the doors, and above the plywood - i.e. at the location of the the rim or band above the foundation or above. This would make sense (behind log siding or flashing) for both stick built or SIP. I do not identify any OSB anywhere in the photographs submitted.



    Look at the top of the next photograph, you will see the Subfloor above (from the bottom) the exterior plywood sheathing, and above that the rim, next the subfloor and just above that the 1/4 or 1/2 log SIDING with the bottom edge ripped off. Note NAILS to the right of the T&G vertical seam - slight surface split. Note tight caulked horizontal seam above top right corner of the photograph. Then review overall distance shot, blow it up if necessary, note vertical seems in log SIDING between door and left corner - note USE of faux log end pieces with SIDING.

    If you go back and review the top right corner of the overall basement "wall" above the "wall" you will see more. If you review the first picture of outside (with the spider next) you will see marked "cut line" at the bottom edge of the LOG SIDING and just above exposed subfloor - overall suggesting the possibility that this could have been cut and excavated POST INSTALLATION of the log siding. I have seen log siding installed both interior and exterior giving the appearance of log construction where there is in fact STICK or SIP construction. This appears to be the case here.


    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-11-2010 at 09:47 AM.

  20. #20
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Not that it matters at this point but this is the way I see it.

    Picture with the plywood: I believe these are 2x6 PT studs with plywood sheathing, the OP pulled back the insulation to take the picture. If you look in the lower left you can see the paper on the insulation, so if this was the subfloor the insulation would be upside down.

    OSB subfloor: In the picture with the pvc pipe and the spider web I am positive this is a cut end of OSB (advantech, edge gold or similar), in the last picture of post 19 this is the tongue edge of the T&G where the first run of subfloor was laid.


  21. #21
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Thanks, Chris.
    HG, I see what you see, now can you see what I see? We are looking down at the floor of the 'basement', and seeing the greenish PT plywood of the wood foundation, complete with a moisture stain..


    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    The Original poster did NOT represent OSB subfloor. He suggested OSB was on a vertical (not horizontal) plane on the exterior just below the doors, and above the plywood - i.e. at the location of the the rim or band above the foundation or above.
    I believe he used the word band, as in a band of OSB, but should have said, narrow strip, as you say, there's no evidence of a band of OSB, just the edge of the subfloor showing.
    With respect to the possibility of the "logs" being fake, yes, I agree, they could be. Joe said it was a log house, but he could be wrong. I can't disagree with you there.

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by John Kogel View Post
    Thanks, Chris.
    HG, I see what you see, now can you see what I see? We are looking down at the floor of the 'basement', and seeing the greenish PT plywood of the wood foundation, complete with a moisture stain..


    I believe he used the word band, as in a band of OSB, but should have said, narrow strip, as you say, there's no evidence of a band of OSB, just the edge of the subfloor showing.
    With respect to the possibility of the "logs" being fake, yes, I agree, they could be. Joe said it was a log house, but he could be wrong. I can't disagree with you there.
    No...sigh.

    You are looking UP from the basement at the first floor joists and the plywood subfloor above. That's water getting in, probably under the unflashed door thresholds & the now exposed "OSB" "Band".

    The Band or rim joist is behind the pink "insulation".

    The basement floor is gray. The Wood stud wall in the basement has a top plate. The floor joists are above this.

    LOOK AGAIN at the overall basement wall picture from within the basement. Note especially the top right hand corner of the photograph..You will visualize the top plate of the wall. Scroll down and visualize the "floor" of the basement at the bottom right corner of the photograph, it is not plywood.




    The OP was specific, as to the "OSB" location claiming it was where a ledger for a step down deck beneath the doors would be mounted - i.e. the MISSING PIECE OF LOG SIDING or other previously installed cover, which presumably was installed at one time with flashing now missing. Hence the bright exposure and the weathered pattern where it is missing. However, when I blow it up before it distorts completely, it cannot be visulized clearly to determine if it could be OSB or if it is plywood, or band/rim just not weathered as much since it was previously covered at some point.

    He said:

    There is a band of OSB just below the french doors, then below that the treated wood foundation


    That's what he meant! GO BACK AND RE-READ the thread. Look at the photographs, BLOW THEM UP if you need to.

    Have you ANY familiarity with Wood foundation walls? LOG SIDING products? Most are ENGINEERED, that is a 1/4 slice laminated on exterior grade T&G planks - plywood or other engineered substrait - not T&G milled log slices. It looks as though there was something installed there - its weathered pattern matches what would be the faux log siding (but wood product) pattern for the "log ends". around the corner is the PVC pipe penetration (what was first pictured in closeup with the spider nest.) which was apparently NOT originally sided OR removed. Go back there and review that photo. See the marking just above the ragged cut line (just above the peek-a-boo subfloor. Log siding products are usually T&G. As I said before - appears to be a work in progress (multi-seasons piece meal-by less than skilled parties).


    The platform subfloor which is exposed edge at exterior (above in the basement) is plywood as photographed.

    Honestly, it looks like there were two more lower courses on the "log" siding for a winter season or more (see closeups from around the corner and other). Apparently had a problem probably due to no drainage plane (degraded tyvek, etc.) and flashing problems, no drip edge out from threshold not right for framing. Looks like someone ran around the perimeter just above the (original) second plank up with a roto zip and ripped it above the grove of the former T&G caulked joint, took it all down and pulled out any (if existed) door/window pans, and all flashing with it (note water line/weather pattern lower down on plywood).

    As I said, a stalled work-in-progress, doesn't appear it ever has completed, had some demo of previous bad work, and is incomplete in mid-project repairs and the original project was stalled.

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    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 08-13-2010 at 09:21 PM.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    OK, if you can't see the possibility that that pink stuff is the concrete, complete with a few mouse turds, I will have to say "You're right" and move on. Where are the wall studs and top sill plate in that pic, BTW? Behind the mystery pink stuff, of course.

    Why did you say you could not see OSB when the OSB is right there in the first pic? Never mind. I need to get out more, I think.
    No, I need inspections to pick up.

    John Kogel, RHI, BC HI Lic #47455
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  24. #24
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Exposed Subfloor

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Arcaro View Post
    Hi:

    Check out the picture. The logs on this cabin are set on top of the subfloor (look at the upper half of the photo, at the spider web). This can't be right, correct?

    Thanks,
    Joe

    Where the hell is Joe!!!

    I would agree to disagree with HG but I have seen where that leads.
    (my apologies for the cross thread reference)


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