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Thread: WHAT IS THIS?

  1. #1
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    Default WHAT IS THIS?

    I need your help on this one. Never seen this before. This is the attic in a 3,000 sq ft house. The beam is made up of 13 2x6's stacked on top of each other. They run the entire width of the house (with a lap in the middle). They aren't touching the joist underneath and there is nothing under the lap joint. They appear to be hanging from the rafters. The support on the ends is just the top plate and no additional support under them that can be seen. They seem to be supporting the pearlings but seems like an odd way to do it. Do you think this was done after the house was finished, perhaps to correct a problem? There are two of these in the attic. The second one doesn't run the entire legnth of the house and is supported by stacked lumber and appears to be sitting only on the ceiling drywall.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanley frost View Post
    I need your help on this one. Never seen this before. This is the attic in a 3,000 sq ft house. The beam is made up of 13 2x6's stacked on top of each other. They run the entire width of the house (with a lap in the middle). They aren't touching the joist underneath and there is nothing under the lap joint. They appear to be hanging from the rafters. The support on the ends is just the top plate and no additional support under them that can be seen. They seem to be supporting the pearlings but seems like an odd way to do it. Do you think this was done after the house was finished, perhaps to correct a problem? There are two of these in the attic. The second one doesn't run the entire legnth of the house and is supported by stacked lumber and appears to be sitting only on the ceiling drywall.
    Thank you for those photo's.
    I really do not know and looks like engineered support for truss and decking. system of some kind.
    Is it code or have I ever seen this example no but happy you did.
    I am going to save this file for referencing.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Stanley,

    The beam is a glue-lam. This is an engineered beam, or at least should be. Around here, the beam specifications would be with the approved set of plans at the building department (assuming permits, etc).

    Looks to me like it might be supporting the ceiling. Those framing anchors look to be connecting the bottom of the glue-lam to the ceiling joists. On a guess, I would say this was done as a part of a remodel, but my information is incomplete. What was going on under this area? Did it look like a wall had been removed?

    The attachment of those braces looks a bit sketchy to me.

    By the way, I believe you mean purlin, not purlings, and the diagonals would probably be purlin braces.

    The support method on stacked lumber also seems nonstandard. I don't see it in any of the pics.

    Department of Redundancy Department
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunnar Alquist View Post
    Stanley,

    The beam is a glue-lam. This is an engineered beam, or at least should be. Around here, the beam specifications would be with the approved set of plans at the building department (assuming permits, etc).

    Looks to me like it might be supporting the ceiling. Those framing anchors look to be connecting the bottom of the glue-lam to the ceiling joists. On a guess, I would say this was done as a part of a remodel, but my information is incomplete. What was going on under this area? Did it look like a wall had been removed?

    The attachment of those braces looks a bit sketchy to me.

    By the way, I believe you mean purlin, not purlings, and the diagonals would probably be purlin braces.

    The support method on stacked lumber also seems nonstandard. I don't see it in any of the pics.
    Yes you are well trained'
    Very nice to see you here.
    It was to bad a set of photo,s involving the upper part and lower part of the home were not taken and placed to get the full scope of the question for proper conclusion.
    Sh-t mate you know you carpentry.
    Mr.Alquist. Good on you.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Thanks Gunnar, I didn't see anything that would have me believe that a wall was removed. What is so puzzling to me is there is no support under the lap joint. That has to be alot of weight. Is it serving two purposes? purlin brace support and ceiling joists support?


  6. #6
    chris mcintyre's Avatar
    chris mcintyre Guest

    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Is this one big room below?

    Rafter ties (they might be called hurricane ties) are not intended to carry the load of the ceiling joist so I hope that is not the purpose of the glulams. The bracing appears to run from the ridge to the glulams, this is not typical bracing for stick framed roofs so they may have been added to help a sagging roof.

    No support under the lap joint, gap between ledger boards, pink lumber.....you definitely have a lot going on in that attic.


  7. #7
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Thanks Chris, i'm writing the report now and will go back and add the"
    strapping not intended to support the ceilig joist." Do you think I should call for an engineer?


  8. #8
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanley frost View Post
    Thanks Chris, i'm writing the report now and will go back and add the"
    strapping not intended to support the ceilig joist." Do you think I should call for an engineer?
    Stanley,

    As a general rule, the hardware manufacturer has specific uses for specific types of hardware. An engineer, however, can decide to specify whatever hardware he/she chooses for an application. But, the engineer accepts liability for the design when it is not within the manufacturer's testing and instructions.

    In a case like this, if I don't see anything sagging or deflecting, I will make a statement like your "strapping not intended..." and refer them to the original plans/engineering. If the engineer specified that particular strap, then (hopefully) he/she did the necessary calculations. The problem is that stuff gets lost, even within building departments. So, I add, "If no engineering documentation for this modification can be provided/produced, a licensed structural engineer should review this area to determine if additional support or corrections are necessary.

    Department of Redundancy Department
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  9. #9
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    Smile Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanley frost View Post
    I need your help on this one. Never seen this before. This is the attic in a 3,000 sq ft house. The beam is made up of 13 2x6's stacked on top of each other. They run the entire width of the house (with a lap in the middle). They aren't touching the joist underneath and there is nothing under the lap joint. They appear to be hanging from the rafters. The support on the ends is just the top plate and no additional support under them that can be seen. They seem to be supporting the pearlings but seems like an odd way to do it. Do you think this was done after the house was finished, perhaps to correct a problem? There are two of these in the attic. The second one doesn't run the entire length of the house and is supported by stacked lumber and appears to be sitting only on the ceiling drywall.
    I am going to post something that I have never seen before although built rafters and homes before( (beginning to end) and looked at these photo's.
    > I enlarged after suspecting that engineering for beefing up decking toke place.
    > I paid attention to the hangers for the rafter ends and in the last photo noticed its under strain. The nails are cumming out.( I am questioning the ties its self ) under-preforming.
    The reason being for the extra bracing work?
    < the lames, the over sized beams, hardware for the purposes they are being used for its a night-mere.( to me )
    I have seen work on INACHI board so similar, for I am a member in good standing.

    Its a mess up there and would have appreciated more pictures of the home for example and definition of why its(the extra work) in place.
    Or just a carpenter that did something in his mind that would work on an inherent defect.
    I will ask all , if you take pictures
    > if you are going to reference problems.
    > try to take photo's of all angles -close -far-under-on top-
    > most importantly -try to show everything involved
    > these photo,s for example.-the roof both planes of every plane if it multy, floors below , joists.
    To me it will be more helpful to see everything involved to gain a proper view for correct conclusions.
    Yhat you for listening to me.

    Robert Young's Montreal Home Inspection Services Inc.
    Call (514) 489-1887 or (514) 441-3732
    Our Motto; Putting information where you need it most, "In your hands.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Just looking at the pictures I really do not see much wrong with the placement of the glulams. It is unconventional, but if it is working.......

    It looks like they were used in the design to help support the roof. It almost looks like an attempt to make a truss system. What would be the web in a truss along with the purlin they are transferring their loads to the glulam.

    A question would be on how the glulam is then transferring the load to the foundation of the home. It looks like one end is sitting on the top plate of the gable wall. With the way the glulam is placed I would expect to either see a large room under it or a bump-out on the side of the home. Who knows really what the reason was but unless I discovered something inside the home that correlated to the framing in the attic I do not think I would say very much about it.

    Scott Patterson, ACI
    Spring Hill, TN
    www.traceinspections.com

  11. #11
    RANDY NICHOLAS's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    s.f.

    note the missing j-box cover?
    no romex clamps??


  12. #12
    RANDY NICHOLAS's Avatar
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    s.f.


    in pic#4;

    note the missing j-box cover?
    no romex clamps??


  13. #13
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Stanley,

    What type of roofing material was used on the house? I wonder if the roof - which appears to be less than 4/12 in the first picture - was undersized for the span and deadweight of the roofing material used and exhibited significant deflection, necessitating the addition of the glue-lam beams. The work doesn't appear to be installed according to any engineered drawings, given the haphazard use of various metal connectors. That's not to say such drawings don't exist, only that I find it questionable that the drawing would actually match what's in those pictures.


  14. #14
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Quote Originally Posted by stanley frost View Post
    Do you think I should call for an engineer?
    Absolutely!


  15. #15
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    Default Re: WHAT IS THIS?

    Looks to me like the glue-lam is serving both as a strongback to support the ceiling joists and as a support for the struts.

    IMO, evaluation is way above pay grade for a HI.

    Michael Thomas
    Paragon Property Services Inc., Chicago IL
    http://paragoninspects.com

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