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  1. #1
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Cut top plate in framing

    Simple question. Do you report this. House built in 91. It's in the crawl space with a wall directly above, separating a bedroom and bath.

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  2. #2
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    If it meets the code in NC I would not write it up if the following condtions were met. The picture does not show enough to answer the question.




    R602.9 Cripple walls.
    Foundation cripple walls shall be
    framed of studs not smaller than the studding above. When
    exceeding 4 feet (1219 mm) in height, such walls shall be
    framed of studs having the size required for an additional story.
    Cripple walls with a stud height less than 14 inches (356
    mm) shall be sheathed on at least one side with a wood structural
    panel that is fastened to both the top and bottom plates in
    accordance with Table R602.3( 1), or the cripple walls shall be
    constructed of solid blocking. Cripple walls shall be supported
    on continuous foundations



  3. #3
    mathew stouffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Meets that criteria


  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    It isn't a question of whether or not you report it. Yes you absolutely report it. A more appropriate question is HOW you report it. Major, minor, lousy work, monitor, repair, scab, etc.
    Is that water staining on the top plate and bottom of joist on the right side of pic?

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    i would expect to see some metal strapping to tie the plates together. i guess it doesn't get cold in utah, no insulation ?


  6. #6
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Load bearing wall has been compromised. I-Joist at left is not properly supported (think diving board). Neither remaining wall componant is now properly restrained, or secure. Neither remaining "wall end" is properly terminating or supporting the above. Wall plate to the right of void seems offset to the foreground, no longer in-line at top plate, or plumb.

    Blocking/stopping above top plate compromised - void , see light and white pvc from behind support wall area.

    Now with two walls where was one - see no sheer/strengthing reinforcement near end.

    Remediation and review likely requiring engineered plan review okay from joist manufacturer - specifications of same are required, suggest local engineering on-site review for determination of loads, forces, etc. as bath has apparently been remodeled with other than straight fixture r/r.

    On a plumbing note, I do not see support, a cleanout regards the change in direction, non sanitary fitting used - street long sweep ell should have been used, top hub of fitting is offset with connection. Suspect other than permited, inspected, qualified, plumbing not-merely maintenance, and not correct work. Is this directly under a relocated toilet? If so a closet bend should have been used, and tied into the DWV correctly; and the plate never would have been cut. Slope appears lacking also in pvc behind.

    Last edited by H.G. Watson, Sr.; 01-27-2011 at 11:17 AM.

  7. #7
    James Duffin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Then I would not report it. There is nowhere in the code that says the foundation wall can not be in two sections.


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Than each wall would have to be properly constructed.

    You cannot bear on a spring board. There is no bearing support for the manufactured I-joist on the left, and no blocking or stopping above the void.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Quote Originally Posted by H.G. Watson, Sr. View Post
    Than each wall would have to be properly constructed.

    You cannot bear on a spring board. There is no bearing support for the manufactured I-joist on the left, and no blocking or stopping above the void.
    hg,
    how do you know it is a load bearing wall above? is blocking required between i joist when there is no bearing wall above?


  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    hg,
    how do you know it is a load bearing wall above? is blocking required between i joist when there is no bearing wall above?
    You tell me.

    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Simple question. Do you report this. House built in 91. It's in the crawl space with a wall directly above, separating a bedroom and bath.
    Quote Originally Posted by mathew stouffer View Post
    Meets that criteria



  11. #11
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Spring board - shming board................

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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    It isn't "notched" J. Mc..


  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Based on Jerry's diagrams the right side would be Ok if it were actually notched. The left side looks wider than 6" though.
    I just noticed, what's up with the condensate tube tapped to the top of the waste line? What's on the other end of that. a furnace pump, straight to the A-coil or ?

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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    I suspect most viewers are aware that double plate was not notched, but cut clean through so I also suspect they would figure out it would require 2 plates to repair the problem. But I could be wrong

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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    [quote=H.G. Watson, Sr.;157773]Load bearing wall has been compromised.
    hg,
    you said it ! blocking not required in non load bearing wall per manufacturer. op did not say it. pay attention


  16. #16
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Running a plate on the backside through the ABS plumbing may prove challenging. .


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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    hg,
    how do you know it is a load bearing wall above? is blocking required between i joist when there is no bearing wall above?
    We don't know that the wall above isn't load bearing, nor do we really care. What is important is whether the wall below, the wall we can see, is load bearing. It could be bearing the load from a bearing wall above, or it could be bearing the load from the floor joists themselves, reducing the span.

    It is reasonable to suspect that this wall is a bearing wall, if only because contractors generally aren't in the habit of placing unnecessary partition walls with double top plates in crawl spaces. It looks like the framing was done properly: bridging above the wall, with squash blocks in the i-joists. It would have been preferable if the studs were aligned with the joists, but the double top plate makes that not required.

    With apologies to my F-I-L, who is a 35 yr master plumber, plumbing licenses should require mandatory training on the proper use of a Sawzall before they're issued.


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Quote Originally Posted by Corn Walker View Post
    We don't know that the wall above isn't load bearing, nor do we really care. What is important is whether the wall below, the wall we can see, is load bearing. It could be bearing the load from a bearing wall above, or it could be bearing the load from the floor joists themselves, reducing the span.

    It is reasonable to suspect that this wall is a bearing wall, if only because contractors generally aren't in the habit of placing unnecessary partition walls with double top plates in crawl spaces. It looks like the framing was done properly: bridging above the wall, with squash blocks in the i-joists. It would have been preferable if the studs were aligned with the joists, but the double top plate makes that not required.

    With apologies to my F-I-L, who is a 35 yr master plumber, plumbing licenses should require mandatory training on the proper use of a Sawzall before they're issued.
    corn
    those are web stiffeners, not squash blocks.


  19. #19
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    Quote Originally Posted by brian schmitt View Post
    corn
    those are web stiffeners, not squash blocks.
    Thanks for the correction, I knew that and STILL typed the wrong thing. Too busy doing too many things at once.


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Cut top plate in framing

    I'm not throwing blame on a "real plumber" for this mess.I'm throwing the blame on the "contractor", "handy-type", or "DIY'er" who replaced the contaminated old subflooring and re-worked the wall above by just pushing the old soil pipe down below the i-joists and cut a too-small hole in the replacement subfloor, didn't bother to cut the old soil pipe and install remediating fittings and pipe, just left it below the subfloor hacked the plate and wall and glued in more fittings.The correct replacement Sch. 40 ABS pipe and fittings wouldn't be found at the box store; easily ordered through plumbing supply or even grainger or other catalog suppliers direct on-line, if the handy-type non-plumber didn't have access to supply to the trade or wasn't close by.Don't think a real plumber would risk license leaving waste plumbing in that state.


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