Floor structure

Jonathan Park · 03-30-2011, 06:02 PM

This is a home where an addition was added. It went from a 1500 sq foot house to over 3000. Apparently the floor of the original section of the home started to sag/fail due to the new load, so they called back in the contractor to fix it. I asked the owner and they didn't get permits.

From what it seems, the contractor added 4X6 beams and random steel jacks under the floor. They called me to take a look and see how the contractor did, so here are my thoughts:

It seems like the beams should be secured to the joists? And the steel jacks haven't been secured to either the posts or the beams. Also, they installed the wood posts directly onto the soil. At the far end of the floor closer to the foundation, it looks like they got lazy and instead of adding another 4X6 beam, they just nailed two 2X6 boards to the wood posts?!

Any other thoughts? Much appreciated.

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Ted Menelly · 03-30-2011, 06:48 PM

In the first place I see 2x6 floor joists. The span is extremely short on a 2x6 floor joist. The wood support for those small metal supports sitting on the soil is not right as well. There are many things on there like the attachment you added. All should be reported but to get into further details is fruitless. You/they needed and engineer to have it drawn up as it should have been and repaired to the drawing specs.

In the general scheme of things there has been a lot of support added and from eye shot it looks fairly level and not a lot of sagging gong on.

Is it fixed right, no. Is it going anywhere even to the distant future, I doubt it. The fact is when you find support issues in a crawl, unlike slabs, you should always recommend an engineer, not a contractor. Slabs can be measured and a plan written by a foundation company for piers and grading and drainage and such. The whole floor/ sagging floor/poor support issue needs an engineer.

chris mcintyre · 03-30-2011, 06:52 PM

I know California codes are different than the IRC so the following may not apply.

For starters the minimum clearance between the ground and the wood should be 18", 12" if treated and those cement/concrete........things can't even be used for decks around here much less for a house foundation.

**Robert Foster** · 03-30-2011, 07:14 PM

From a Virginians perspective...that's some nice looking Doug Fir...sad to see it in a crawlspace.

**John Kogel** · 03-30-2011, 07:30 PM

Termites are going to eat that place. Pass it on to Ron Bibler.

Jonathan Park · 03-30-2011, 11:20 PM

I'm going to go ahead and recommend a structural engineer to them.
Thank you very much guys!

**Markus Keller** · 03-31-2011, 05:36 AM

- Lack of proper attachment of wood components to each other
- Depending on local conditions the untreated lumber may be an issue for rot or termites
- Those brackets look like some sort of Simpson product. Should be easy enough to get documentation and see what their real intended/rated use is.
- Check CA seismic/earthquake requirements for such installs. I would think SF has such in their Code.
- Lack of proper footings
- Verify and document ventilation, critter and water drainage conditions for the crawl
- Damaged, incomplete install on vapor barrier
Hope that helps

**Stuart Brooks** · 03-31-2011, 07:44 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Foster

From a Virginians perspective...that's some nice looking Doug Fir...sad to see it in a crawlspace.

Great stuff. I had a house built in the 50's recently that had beautiful Douglas Fir framing. My dad used it in Virginia Beach for many years until they came out with PT SYP. The worst waste I ever saw was from the Coast Guard ship yard in Baltimore Maryland in the early 80'w. They only used clear Fir for scaffolding. A guy got wind that they were getting rid of it as a project was completed. He bought it and setup a sawmill to re-saw it into market sizes.

Paul Johnston · 04-01-2011, 02:42 AM

They need to get a structural engineer to take over from here. Many, many problems down the road.

Originally Posted by Jonathan Park

This is a home where an addition was added. It went from a 1500 sq foot house to over 3000. Apparently the floor of the original section of the home started to sag/fail due to the new load, so they called back in the contractor to fix it. I asked the owner and they didn't get permits.

From what it seems, the contractor added 4X6 beams and random steel jacks under the floor. They called me to take a look and see how the contractor did, so here are my thoughts:

It seems like the beams should be secured to the joists? And the steel jacks haven't been secured to either the posts or the beams. Also, they installed the wood posts directly onto the soil. At the far end of the floor closer to the foundation, it looks like they got lazy and instead of adding another 4X6 beam, they just nailed two 2X6 boards to the wood posts?!

Any other thoughts? Much appreciated.

**John Kogel** · 04-01-2011, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Foster

From a Virginians perspective...that's some nice looking Doug Fir...sad to see it in a crawlspace.

1968 attic from this AM. Old growth Douglas fir 2X10's to prop up the rafters

**Robert Foster** · 04-02-2011, 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Stuart Brooks

Great stuff. I had a house built in the 50's recently that had beautiful Douglas Fir framing. My dad used it in Virginia Beach for many years until they came out with PT SYP. The worst waste I ever saw was from the Coast Guard ship yard in Baltimore Maryland in the early 80'w. They only used clear Fir for scaffolding. A guy got wind that they were getting rid of it as a project was completed. He bought it and setup a sawmill to re-saw it into market sizes.

Originally Posted by John Kogel

1968 attic from this AM. Old growth Douglas fir 2X10's to prop up the rafters

For timber framing IMO there is nothing more beautiful than a Doug Fir frame. I actually cut and built a small frame for a 1000 sq.ft. cabin I built for myself 15 years ago. It was beautiful, unfortunately I sold the place 10 years later and moved into town.

Big mistake....I wont make those kinds of mistakes when I come through this thing called life a second time.

**John Kogel** · 04-04-2011, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Foster

For timber framing IMO there is nothing more beautiful than a Doug Fir frame. I actually cut and built a small frame for a 1000 sq.ft. cabin I built for myself 15 years ago. It was beautiful, unfortunately I sold the place 10 years later and moved into town.

Big mistake....I wont make those kinds of mistakes when I come through this thing called life a second time.

Robert if there is a next time, it will be in a styrofoam igloo. Sorry about that.

Post a pic of your handiwork sometime.